Blue Jays: 2013 MLB Draft Signing thread

[Laika]

Can you critical think?

 

*critically think

 

11 in a deep draft = better then 10 in a weak draft..... does that take a critical thinker to wrap your head around?

I'm sure they had a few names in mind that they would hope they fall... they didn't... so they went with plan B... which is punt to a deeper draft next year... a very good plan IMO.

 

It's a big assumption and you're giving them a lot of credit that they don't really deserve. Offering Bickford slot money and getting spurned isn't really "punting the pick".

 

Ask AA/Parker if they punted the pick, and they would tell you no. They would say that they had every intention of signing Bickford. You're not even entertaining the most likely case.

 

On another note, a prospect right now objectively carries more value than an equal prospect a year from now. You can't just say that "11 in a deeper draft is better than 10 in this draft". That's a shallow analysis. Even if the kid in 2014 is better than Bickford, that doesn't necessarily mean that waiting a year to get him was the right move. He would need to be better by some uncertain amount that is hard to quantify.

 

And looking beyond Bickford, rumours are right now that Toronto might not get Brentz and/or Tellez. It's entirely possible that the Jays right now end up spending like, 2 million total on this years draft, bagging Clinton Hollon at #47 as their best drafted prospect. That would be a disaster and a half.

[8D]

f*** me. this entire season has been a write off.

[ace3113]

It wasn't a good draft because we didn't sign an 18th or 30th rounder?

 

Or was it because we punted away this years pick for a better opportunity next year?

 

For me it's because we took several injured and overdrafted players (Hollon, Murphy, even Smith to some extent), a bunch of college non-prospects, with the mindset of allocating that money later to get more prospects, who it's now starting to look like we might not get at all. The strategy doesn't seem to make sense unless we sign at least 2 of Tellez, Brentz, Lauer, or Tewes. The potential Bickford non-signing on the other hand is just a complete lack of due diligence.

[havok24]

This is awesome.

 

I love you AA.

 

Worst draft ever. Lol what a joke.

[ace3113]

On another note, a prospect right now objectively carries more value than an equal prospect a year from now. You can't just say that "11 in a deeper draft is better than 10 in this draft". Even if the kid in 2014 is better than Bickford, that doesn't necessarily mean that waiting a year to get him was the right move. He would need to be better by some uncertain amount that is hard to quantify.

 

I agree. You lose a year of development theoretically, and you wasted a bunch of resources this year to scout these players. Also the fact that next years draft is DEEP means the talent stretches out further than the top 10-20 picks to around 50-60, but that doesn't mean that the player we would get at 10 or 11 next year would be instantly better than Bickford. Looking at the list at present I would say they're only slightly better if not equal in talent and potential, which begs the question, what was the point?

[Caper]

I agree. You lose a year of development theoretically, and you wasted a bunch of resources this year to scout these players. Also the fact that next years draft is DEEP means the talent stretches out further than the top 10-20 picks to around 50-60, but that doesn't mean that the player we would get at 10 or 11 next year would be instantly better than Bickford. Looking at the list at present I would say they're only slightly better if not equal in talent and potential, which begs the question, what was the point?

 

 

My thinking is they liked a few guys... none of them made it to them... so they took a very tough sign... and get a better pick next year.

[flafson]

Worst draft ever. Lol what a joke.

 

It's not over yet...

[imsorry4beatinU]

Someone said we could sign undrafted highschool players. Do we just call them up and see if they want to sign for certain amount?

[ace3113]

My thinking is they liked a few guys... none of them made it to them... so they took a very tough sign... and get a better pick next year.

 

We literally get a worse pick next year (11 instead of 10). Qualitatively, I don't think the nominal upgrade from let's say Phil Bickford to Grant Holmes is worth the lost development time, wasted resources, and loss of bargaining leverage (next year's pick won't be protected).

[flafson]

Only time will tell, there is still time to sign some people.

[John_Havok]

Pretty much. Any undrafted high school or college players be signed for nothing but a plane ticket to Dunedin and the promise of a tryout.

[imsorry4beatinU]

when is the deadline tomorrow?

[ElNik2013]

It's looking bleak for AA and his minions. This is turning into a disaster. The worst part about this is that no one in the media scrutinizes anything. You've got Blair who's an AA lover and won't say a word.

[Caper]

We literally get a worse pick next year (11 instead of 10).

 

11 next year is better then 10 this year. It's a deeper draft. Same as the NBA..... number 5 next year is better then 1 this year... that's why it will be fascinating to watch teams attempt to tank next year.

 

I don't think the veneer upgrade from let's say Phil Bickford to Grant Holmes is worth the lost development time, wasted resources, and loss of bargaining leverage (next year's pick won't be protected).

 

What do you mean lost development time? Are none of the players in next years draft going to play or practice until after the draft? Wasted resources? They are scouts.... they scout.. the Jays had lots of them... they scouted lots of guys. I am assuming the guys they wanted were taken by 10. ....What. You think the Jays should have went all out to sign Bickford so Bill the scout wouldn't feel he wasted his time?

 

They can take a 19 or 20 year old next year and the prospect would be closer to the majors then Bickford.

 

You do make a good point about the loss of leverage.... but really it's no different then 20 other teams picks in the 1st round.

 

Overall I like the move.

[Caper]

It's looking bleak for AA and h is minions. This is turning into a disaster. The worst part about this is that no one in the media scrutinizes anything. You've got Blair who's an AA lover and won't say a word.

 

Should Blair make the point that punting a 10 for an 11 was a good move?

[ElNik2013]

It's a waste of a pick, at least for this year. Maybe they'll get a stud next year that will shoot up through the minors, but I doubt it. It's obvious this Parker character was out to lunch and needs to be canned.

[KingKat]

Small sample of course but:

 

Braden Shipley (LOW A - NWL): 2gs 2.25era 4ip 2h 1bb 6so

 

s***... Shipley already has two games under this belt while the Jays are still dry humping their prospects. What a depressing draft and overall season.

[imsorry4beatinU]

Pretty much. Any undrafted high school or college players be signed for nothing but a plane ticket to Dunedin and the promise of a tryout.

 

I'm curious about the players who weren't drafted because of sign-ability issues.

[ElNik2013]

Should Blair make the point that punting a 10 for an 11 was a good move?

 

 

Putting the cart before the horse, don't you think? We don't know who they'll end up with. Most were surprised at the Bickford selection. Blair could scrutinize why so many were surprised by Bickford going that high. Anyway....

[TwistedLogic]

This pick never really made sense to me because we were over drafting someone who wanted above slot. Whatever, next year the pick won't be protected so maybe we'll get a college player.

 

It will still be protected as a compensation pick in 2015 if we don't sign the guy we get in 2014. The new CBA changed it so that a pick is protected for two years instead of one.

 

People like to conveniently forget he brought a bottom 5 system to a top 5 in a few years.

 

but f*** AA, cause that's the fashionable circlejerk here!

 

Prior to AA getting the job, our system was ranked 28 overall out of 30. Less than two years later it was consensus top 3. People just need something to bitch about.

 

I don't think anybody forgets that. But there are three top-of-the-head responses:

 

1. the Halladay trade (and its aftermath) went a long way towards establishing that, with D'Arnaud and Gose consistently near the top of the list. That had little to do with drafting and scouting.

That had little to do with drafting and scouting? So you think they read d'Arnaud and Gose's names on a baseball america list and said "We have to have them"? The Jays had absolutely no leverage in the Phillies trade. That was completely to AA's credit. He didn't even get Gose in the Phillies trade either. He wanted Gose, but Gose had been traded to the Astros. He got d'Arnaud, Taylor, and Drabek who was a top 10 prospect in baseball at the time. He turned Taylor into Brett Wallace and Wallace into Gose. Not only did he get two guys he really wanted with the Phillies, he used the third chip, which was useless, and turned it into Gose through shrewd trades.

 

2. AA had a lot of decent picks over the years thanks to the supplementals. It would have been a profound failure not to significantly boost the farm with so many high selections.

Every single team in the majors had the ability to acquire Type-A and Type-B free agents at the trade deadline and turn them into compensation picks, thus resulting in "significantly boosting" their farm. Yet nobody outside of the Jays and Rays did it to the extent that Anthopoulos did. So if not boosting the system from bottom 3 to top 3 in a year was a profound failure, it looks like more than 25 teams failed "profoundly", given that no team did what the Jays did while having all the same resources and ability to do so.

 

3. it doesn't detract from individual criticisms which must be debated on their own merits, e.g. the McGuire and Beede picks, not signing Bryant and Paxton, the 'middling' strategy which didn't result in any top 3 picks despite non-contention, and so on.

The Jays weren't the only ones to pass on Sale, two teams (Diamondbacks and Padres, both known for good farm systems) picked players prior the Sale pick that didn't even sign. The Jays offered 3M to Beede and he refused. The Yankees failed to sign Gerrit Cole in the 2008 draft, the Pirates failed to sign Appel in the 2011 draft, it happens to every single team. When the guy doesn't want to sign, he won't sign. The Jays gave Bickford an offer of 2.9M, a guy who was ranked in the 40s coming into the draft. His price tag was 4.2M, it's ridiculous to look at this as a failure. The Jays did exactly what they should have done, they got a better pick next year.

 

It's gotten to a hilarious point how many of you think you know how to do AA's job better than he does.

[ElNik2013]

I remember reading about someone texting someone (sorry forget names lol) within the organization saying "What the hell are we doing?" After finding out we went pitchers with the first 10 picks

 

I think it was in one of davidis articles

 

 

 

Didn't see that, but there's no doubt that it was a disaster of a draft, even if they manage to sign one or 2 of Brentz/Tellez, et al. The only bright spot is King Kalfus.

[Caper]

Putting the cart before the horse, don't you think? We don't know who they'll end up with. Most were surprised at the Bickford selection. Blair could scrutinize why so many were surprised by Bickford going that high. Anyway....

 

If I had to guess. The Jays didn't like who was available...... The knew this draft was weak... they knew next draft was not... so they used the option they had on punting the draft.... really good move imo.... I don't want to take some weak 10 just to make some guys on a message board happy.

[KingKat]

How does one even rise to the upper ranks of an MLB front office without being a critical thinker?

 

The Blue Jays FO is fundamentally flawed. They didn't pass the first checkpoint - hire smart people.

 

The problem starts at the top with Beaston. He was hired as a head hunter and he ends up hiring himself and turning himself from legend to laughing stock. These comeback tours from the glory years (Cito, Beaston) have done nothing but make the organization look bad.

[Caper]

Seems like we won't be getting a single prospect to care much about... from an entire draft class. How does that even happen?

 

It happens... look at the history of any teams draft.... you'll see years where you don't recognize a name.

[Angrioter]

This will go down as one of the worst drafts in history. Holy crap what a trainwreck.

 

 

I tune in late........

No Brentz? lol

[imsorry4beatinU]

This will go down as one of the worst drafts in history. Holy crap what a trainwreck.

 

so....whats the lottery numbers for tomorrow nights Max?

[dineke]

How can they let the bickfoot get away?

[ReturnOfTheYeti]

Callis is now saying he's confused about Jays draft and getting contradictory messages.

 

As far as I'm concerned, I'll just wait until the deadline tomorrow, there's just too many unknowns to get in an uproar right now.

[OtisNixonFan]

I'm interested in a few guys.. Like Jansen and Greene, and Kalfus of course.

 

Jansen and Matt Boyd interest me the most. Jansen start has been unreal. There is just something about Boyd that I like.

[Caper]

I believe Marisnick is the only position player/prospect of any regard.

 

Kevin Pillar has been really good.

 

I really don't think there are a lot of bluejays fans that can differentiate a hockey and baseball draft.