Travis Snider update (hint BL is better now (probably))

[Olerud363]

Couldn't find the original Travis thread.

 

I hate cherry pickers, and don't want to ever be one myself. So need to make sure I keep posting on certain topics even when they aren't going my way.

 

Travis Snider: .235 .302 .355

 

For a fat platoon player that line is a pile of manure. The Travis haters were right (so far).

 

Things can always change but at this point Travis deserves a demotion. Basically tied with Brad Lincoln in WAR right now (slightly negative for both).

 

Still pulling for Travis. I still wish we had given him a couple of full seasons. But for whatever reasons the fat kid can't hit.

 

Mental?? Genetic?? Attitude?? Wrist Injury?? Coaching?? Poor development plan??

 

What do you guys think??

[dineke]

There's a giant hole in his swing.

[Dr. Dinger]

There's a giant hole in his swing.

 

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[TheHurl]

He ran out of steak one night and started eating his bats.

[Olerud363]

There's a giant hole in his swing.

 

This is just such a stupid thing. "Hole in his swing?". Give me a break. What is that exactly??

 

I played basketball throughout highschool. I worked hard and was fundamentally sound. I had very smooth mechanics and a nice shot. I did not play in college. This had nothing to do with a "hole in my shot" or any other such bull crap. Other kids had much worse fundamentals and mechanics went on to play in college because they had more fast twitch fibers and were naturally faster, stronger, and more coordinated.

 

I wish I played more baseball. I basically played softball and sandlot. I had an OK swing. Other kids had horrible swings but more fast twitch fibers so could hit the ball farther and more consistently.

 

Have you ever played golf?? Frustrating game. But anyone who has, has seen the athletic coordinate guy, show up, and do OK, even with a horrible swing.

 

A hole in the swing is not a real thing. Presumably you mean.

 

"Travis Snider does not have the hand eye coordination to execute the swing dynamics correctly."

 

or...

 

"Travis Snider never recieved the proper coaching to execute the swing dynamics correctly."

 

Personally I'm tired of hearing pseudo scientific ******** about a "hole in the swing". Give me some insight into why Snider can't fix the hole in his swing then we're getting somewhere.

 

Presumably if you know about this "hole in Snider's swing" he and his coaches know about it. They just can't fix it.

[Olerud363]

He ran out of steak one night and started eating his bats.

 

So as one of the most knowledgable posters on this board what is your opinion?? Why is he failing?

 

So far I've been told it's because of the hole in his swing... Let's rephrase the question then. How did he get the hole in his swing and why can't it be fixed??

 

Some possibilities...

 

1. An inherent limitation in hand eye coordination (genetic) has led to the hole in his swing.

2. A mental issue has led to the hole in his swing (anxiety, mental toughness or something).

3. His wrist injury has led to the hole in his swing.

4. His diet and conditioning has led to the hole in his swing.

5. His attitude (can't work with coaches) has led to the hold in his swing.

 

What

[dineke]

This is just such a stupid thing. "Hole in his swing?". Give me a break. What is that exactly??

 

I played basketball throughout highschool. I worked hard and was fundamentally sound. I had very smooth mechanics and a nice shot. I did not play in college. This had nothing to do with a "hole in my shot" or any other such bull crap. Other kids had much worse fundamentals and mechanics went on to play in college because they had more fast twitch fibers and were naturally faster, stronger, and more coordinated.

 

I wish I played more baseball. I basically played softball and sandlot. I had an OK swing. Other kids had horrible swings but more fast twitch fibers so could hit the ball farther and more consistently.

 

Have you ever played golf?? Frustrating game. But anyone who has, has seen the athletic coordinate guy, show up, and do OK, even with a horrible swing.

 

A hole in the swing is not a real thing. Presumably you mean.

 

"Travis Snider does not have the hand eye coordination to execute the swing dynamics correctly."

 

or...

 

"Travis Snider never recieved the proper coaching to execute the swing dynamics correctly."

 

Personally I'm tired of hearing pseudo scientific ******** about a "hole in the swing". Give me some insight into why Snider can't fix the hole in his swing then we're getting somewhere.

 

Presumably if you know about this "hole in Snider's swing" he and his coaches know about it. They just can't fix it.

 

I meant a hole in his swing as in he swing and misses a lot. He's striking out nearly 25% of his PAs while facing only right-handers and hasn't even hit for any power either.

 

I'm no scout so I don't know what his problem is and I'm not even going to venture a guess if it's poor coaching or if it's a problem with his hand-eye coordination.

[DuckDuckGose]

Couldn't find the original Travis thread.

 

I hate cherry pickers, and don't want to ever be one myself. So need to make sure I keep posting on certain topics even when they aren't going my way.

 

Travis Snider: .235 .302 .355

 

For a fat platoon player that line is a pile of manure. The Travis haters were right (so far).

 

Things can always change but at this point Travis deserves a demotion. Basically tied with Brad Lincoln in WAR right now (slightly negative for both).

 

Still pulling for Travis. I still wish we had given him a couple of full seasons. But for whatever reasons the fat kid can't hit.

 

Mental?? Genetic?? Attitude?? Wrist Injury?? Coaching?? Poor development plan??

 

What do you guys think??

 

He's an all singles hitter now that doesn't make nearly enough contact. He needs to re-find his power stroke or start looking for a new career.

[Olerud363]

I think it could be a certain part of the zone that Snider's swing can't cover. Or that the way he sets up leaves him vulnerable to either breaking balls or fastballs, he can't load up for both on the same swing. It's definitely a real thing.

 

If I was a civil engineer in charge of a project to build a road, and a guy came up to me and said there's a pot hole in the road. This road just isn't gonna work. I'd say "what the frack?? fix the fracking hole!". And if he said he couldn't.. that the project would have to be canceled and we'd have to build a new road... then I'd be pissed as hell and skeptical.

 

Now maybe there'd be a reason the pothole couldn't be fixed. Maybe something to do with the land the road was built on... or maybe the entire road was buit and designed wrong from the beginning of the project.

 

I'm John Henry... somebody comes up to me and says player x is broken, there's a hole in his swing. Player x is a top draft pick and now it will cost 60 million dollars to replace him with a free agent. I sure as hell want to be convinced that this hole is real, and is unfixable.

 

Next I demand to know how it got there. Was is scouting?? The scouts didn't see the hole years ago when they recomended the player?? Which scouts?? Do we need to get rid of them. Is it coaching?? In his trip through the minors and eventually mlb no coaches were able to fix this hole?? Why can't he adjust??

[Olerud363]

I meant a hole in his swing as in he swing and misses a lot. He's striking out nearly 25% of his PAs while facing only right-handers and hasn't even hit for any power either.

 

I'm no scout so I don't know what his problem is and I'm not even going to venture a guess if it's poor coaching or if it's a problem with his hand-eye coordination.

 

Or it could be a problem with his wrist.... He seems to be a different hitter after since 2011...

 

I don't know what his problem is either... just that it's becoming pretty obvious he has a problem (which some people pointed out years ago).

[G-Snarls]

Sad to see a fresh start in Pittsburg didn't do him any good

 

He'll never be an every day major leaguer

[Olerud363]

Snider needs to go back to the approach that got him to the big leagues. He use to keep his hands back and his bat would stay in the strike zone longer. It seems every time they tried to tinker with him he got worse and now his power is completely zapped. He use to hit balls a long way. Remember those 2 bombs he hit at at the Metrodome. Now it just looks like he waves at everything. Honestly I don't know why anyone would even throw him a fastball in the strikezone.

 

I remember on opening day that year he just flicked a pop-up into the left field bullpen. Then after he came back from his demotion I remember he was hitting balls to left like Goerge Bell used to... 3 bombs smoked to left in a weak if I remember correctly.

 

Not that it lasted to long. He bit for a month then smoked a couple of moon shots at Yankee Stadium in September.

 

He was 21. Just normal development from that point and he's a middle of the order guy... blah... prospects always fail right?? Not guys like this. You take 50 guys who were where Snider was at 21 and I gotta think 35 of them are great. Guess Snider was in the other 30%.

[TheHurl]

If anyone could repair that "hole" they'd be making millions as a batting coach. Snider was always thought to be a guy who's power would develop huge so there probably wasn't a huge concern about the K's (as I've always said there are two ways a hitter can get away with a big K-Rate, Lots of HR's or a big BABIP. I was huge on Snider when he was a prospect because I thought he'd hit 30+ HR's every year. The power didn't develop and whether it is because of stubbornness, uncoachability or just the swing isn't as good as what was anticipated. He was supposed to be a guy that would kill FB's...turns out he's really not good against any FB, especially up in the zone...and he just can't lay off of them. We don't really get O-Contact rates (contact on swings on pitches outside of the strike zone) until AAA and I understand the triple A stuff isn't overly accurate.

 

to sum it up, doesn't make contact on pitches outside of the zone, so no sense cutting down his swing as it probably won't help a guy like him. So keep swinging hard and hope the power develops was the plan of attack for him. Didn't work

[John_Havok]

Or it could be a problem with his wrist.... He seems to be a different hitter after since 2011...

 

I don't know what his problem is either... just that it's becoming pretty obvious he has a problem (which some people pointed out years ago).

 

Or I could just simply be... If everyone was capable of fixing the holes in their swings, baseball would be a pretty crowded place. Some players excel, some players don't. Trying to figure out why one guy failed and one guy succeeded is as close to a fool's errand as you can get.

 

Why can't every pitcher fix flaws in their mechanics and all learn to throw 95 mph?

[Olerud363]

Or I could just simply be... If everyone was capable of fixing the holes in their swings, baseball would be a pretty crowded place. Some players excel, some players don't. Trying to figure out why one guy failed and one guy succeeded is as close to a fool's errand as you can get.

 

Why can't every pitcher fix flaws in their mechanics and all learn to throw 95 mph?

 

It isn't only mechanics... I probably throw 50 right now, if that. I suspect if I got high quality coaching I could get it up to 65 or 70... but not much higher because of inherent limitations.

 

I think your quote there sums it up nicely "Trying to figure out why one guy failed and one guy succeeded is as close to a fool's errand as you can get".

 

We have an organization that seems to put a lot of effort into figuring out who is going to suceed and who will fail. I am of the "keep it simple stupid" camp. Collect lots of young players. Promote the ones that suceed.

[connorp]

He's an all singles hitter now that doesn't make nearly enough contact. He needs to re-find his power stroke or start looking for a new career.

 

Too bad he doesn't have a Romero like $30m guaranteed contract while he figures things out.. in seriousness though, even if he continues to suck.. he will probably be around for awhile bouncing back and forth in the pros.. his "career" is fine.. there's this guy Brendan Harris that played bb in my district a year younger than me.. plays for Angels now (was on Rays so sure many people on here know him) and has never really been good, spending time between minors and pros... but has made $5m plus+ before 33. Guy like Snider has it made.. just not in terms of being a great bb player..

[Olerud363]

Speaking of giant holes... Yan Gomes makes Snider's swing look terrific.

 

You understand why I hate this term? It's absolutely non-descriptive. For the most part people use "hole in the swing" when describing players who are inexperienced, aren't suceeding, and/or haven't established themselves.

 

If you have an interest in the player, as a GM, a fan, a fantasy baseball player, whatever... then "hole in the swing" doesn't tell you much. What you want to know is....

 

1. What is the problem exactly?

 

2. Why did the problem happen?

 

3. Is it fixable?

 

Hole in the swing could be 1 million things. Some of which are fixable, some of which probably aren't.

[EdelweissBouquet]

It's obviously cito's fault, he ruined snider beyond repair.

Before the Cito spotting in pittsburg, snider was doing fine.

[Caper]

I would still make a trade to have Snider back

[G-Snarls]

I would still make a trade to have Snider back

 

Snider 2013 Pirates:

 

249 PA

26.5% K rate

.226 BA

.277 wOBA

.332 slugging

3 HR

22 RBI

 

Negative 0.4 WAR

 

Wow, what a bust. So much for a fresh start.

 

Pretty much guaranteeing that he gets himself non-tendered this year.

[G-Snarls]

f***.........that post was in all caps, there went that!

 

LOL. Forum corrects all caps automatically. Yeah it sucks. Need to use the font size thingie in order to yell.

[Olerud363]

Why bump this s***** ass thread? Why??????

 

This has been one of the major topics of debate on the board for years. Travis Snider. Why doesn't he hit?? Did Cito mess him up?? Why did AA give up on him??

 

My point of view has always been that Snider was a huge talent and given a chance he would mash. And you know what... it's looking like I was wrong.

 

That's why I started this thread. I don't want to just start threads, and update things just to prove I was right. If I'm wrong about something I'm man enough to go back and admit it.

 

So now we have someone else bumping the thread pointing out how bad Snider is. Sort of a.. "hey you knuckle heads... Snider is s***... AA made the right call on this one... maybe he's not a total idiot...", nothing wrong with that.

 

I'd think some of you would appreciate it when people make pro-AA points.