Offseason moves accumulated WAR - 1/4 season mark

[mitchf]

Hypothetical Question:

 

How many losses would get The Fat Greek fired after this season?

 

I know most of us, including myself, believe he has this year AND next to make the playoffs before the axe falling, but is there a point at which this becomes too embarrassing to come back from? 90 losses? 95? 100?

Who's going to fire him? Beeston is an absolute idiot who has zero recognition for what's going on. He's probably sitting in his suite talking about how Dickey looks like he's finally come around.

[Nox]

Beeston is the only reason I think AA is essentially safe this year.

 

But once that ********'s contract expires next year, all bets are off and barring something unforeseen, AA will be gone then too.

[mitchf]

Beeston is the only reason I think AA is essentially safe this year.

 

But once that ********'s contract expires next year, all bets are off and barring something unforeseen, AA will be gone then too.

"I thank Jeffrey Loria every day I wake up" - Beeston

 

He must be so heartbroken to see that Loria's management group wasn't actually as incompetent as he believed.

[mitchf]

That probably depends on who's doing the firing. Beeston won't fire AA for as long as he's president, but its pretty feasible that someone above Beest is none too happy about raising payroll by 50% and still finishing under 0.500. I could see both getting canned in early October. At least that would be likely for most businesses.

The only way to top this season off as one of the biggest off season blunders of all time would be for everyone involved to get another year.

[Tuco]

Haha, be careful when you say that.

 

Colangelo threw away Hibbert, signed some terrible players, but NEVER would he have depleted his youth for a bunch of guys that had health concerns and weren't exactly sure bets.

 

Where's our Derozan, Jonas, Ross, Amir and Gay. These guys are all on their way up because of the ability for the Raptors to develop, meanwhile we're seeing any player that AA had a part in developing get worse. Every. Single. Player.

 

What?

The first round pick he traded away for Jermaine O'Neal turned into Hibbert. JO at that point had busted knees and the entire league basically knew he was a washed up version of his old self. He then traded JO along with another first rounder to Miami. This guy traded away a first round pick for Kyle Lowry, a injury riddled PG that couldnt even get along with his coach and Houston didnt really want him back. He went all out for Steve Nash and in a lame attempt to sign him, panicked and gave out just a ludacris contract to Fields. He signed Kapono to a brutal deal. Guy has gone thru 3 coachs and none of them look like the answer. Drafted a total bust at #1, gives out just ludacris contracts to marginal players, changes his teams style of play each season. This guy has just been a absolute mess.

 

-DeRozan isnt that good. Dude has no range and is a total siv on D. His contract actually makes him a pretty undesirable asset.

-Rudy Gay is getting paid MAX money and has one year left on his contract. In a league where you have a cap again hes basically a undesirable asset.

-Terrance Ross looks like a totally underhwhelming first round pick. He's 22 YO and was supposed to be NBA ready but wasnt even close. He should turn out to be a alright role player but not really what your looking for when drafting top 10

-Amir is a nice energy PF but will never be top 5 at his position or a impact player (I could prolly name 8-10 young PF's I would rather have them him)

 

Jonas is really the only real promising thing the franchise has going. I actually cannot believe you said "The Raptors ability to develop"!. Are you serious? This team cant draft or develop anything the past few years.

 

AA has been bad but nowhere near as bad as Colangelo.

[over500]

My favorite part of this trade is that even the most casual fan couldn't believe we gave up d'Arnaud.

Most casual fans I know believe only thing AA did wrong this off-season was hiring Gibbons. They're pretty retarded.

[Nox]

Most casual fans I know believe only thing AA did wrong this off-season was hiring Gibbons. They're pretty retarded.

 

Most casuals I know just go with something along the lines of: "he just gave up prospects and they usually don't turrrnnn out hurrrrr"

[Tuco]

Here's Colangelo's indeX of trades/signings/draft picks

 

http://hoopshype.com/general_managers/bryan_colangelo.htm

 

Just HORRENDOUS

[mitchf]

What?

The first round pick he traded away for Jermaine O'Neal turned into Hibbert. JO at that point had busted knees and the entire league basically knew he was a washed up version of his old self. He then traded JO along with another first rounder to Miami. This guy traded away a first round pick for Kyle Lowry, a injury riddled PG that couldnt even get along with his coach and Houston didnt really want him back. He went all out for Steve Nash and in a lame attempt to sign him, panicked and gave out just a ludacris contract to Fields. He signed Kapono to a brutal deal. Guy has gone thru 3 coachs and none of them look like the answer. Drafted a total bust at #1, gives out just ludacris contracts to marginal players, changes his teams style of play each season. This guy has just been a absolute mess.

 

-DeRozan isnt that good. Dude has no range and is a total siv on D. His contract actually makes him a pretty undesirable asset.

-Rudy Gay is getting paid MAX money and has one year left on his contract. In a league where you have a cap again hes basically a undesirable asset.

-Terrance Ross looks like a totally underhwhelming first round pick. He's 22 YO and was supposed to be NBA ready but wasnt even close. He should turn out to be a alright role player but not really what your looking for when drafting top 10

-Amir is a nice energy PF but will never be top 5 at his position or a impact player (I could prolly name 8-10 young PF's I would rather have them him)

 

Jonas is really the only real promising thing the franchise has going. I actually cannot believe you said "The Raptors ability to develop"!. Are you serious? This team cant draft or develop anything the past few years.

 

AA has been bad but nowhere near as bad as Colangelo.

This is full of hyperbole.

 

JO was acquired at a time when we HAD a good team. Not an awful 73 win squad that was going to be transformed in one off season.

 

Kyle Lowry had some of the best advanced numbers in the league both last year and the year he was acquired. Not to mention he's probably got the best PG contract in basketball.

 

Steve Nash/Landry Fields panic move is right up there with the worst moves ever made by a manager. However it was one move.

 

Drafted a total bust at #1? You didn't follow that draft apparently.

 

DD is a top 10 SG that was drafted 9th overall. Sounds like good development to me.

 

Rudy Gay was acquired because the 3 position is so high in demand and selling high on Ed Davis was the right thing to do. I'm giving Rudy next year, not 30 games.

 

Your TRoss criticism is absurd.

 

Amir isn't supposed to be a top 10 PF, what are you talking about lol.

[Nox]

DD is a top 10 SG that was drafted 9th overall. Sounds like good development to me.

 

I can't agree with this.

[mitchf]

I can't agree with this.

Alright well he was 4th in scoring among SG. I know that's a volatile number and his efficiency is horrific (his fg% was 8th among SGs), but he was a 9th overall pick that was about as raw you could find.

[Nox]

Yah, he's OKish.

 

A league average offensive player but below average defensively. I dunno, he's young enough that he could definitely still develop into something pretty good but he's not really there yet IMO. Certainly nothing for BC to hang his hat on.

[mitchf]

Yah, he's OKish.

 

A league average offensive player but below average defensively. I dunno, he's young enough that he could definitely still develop into something pretty good but he's not really there yet IMO. Certainly nothing for BC to hang his hat on.

No, but he doesn't need to. That Jonas Valanciunas pick was laughed at and criticized beyond belief. Here he is two years later and Bryan can say he was able to have the foresight to take the best player rather than make the flashy pick to save his job, which he ended up keeping regardless.

 

Let's not underestimate what the NBA draft means to basketball. It defines you as a GM. Bryan hasn't messed up a pick if you think rationally.

[Tuco]

This is full of hyperbole.

 

JO was acquired at a time when we HAD a good team. Not an awful 73 win squad that was going to be transformed in one off season.

 

Kyle Lowry had some of the best advanced numbers in the league both last year and the year he was acquired. Not to mention he's probably got the best PG contract in basketball.

 

Steve Nash/Landry Fields panic move is right up there with the worst moves ever made by a manager. However it was one move.

 

Drafted a total bust at #1? You didn't follow that draft apparently.

 

DD is a top 10 SG that was drafted 9th overall. Sounds like good development to me.

 

Rudy Gay was acquired because the 3 position is so high in demand and selling high on Ed Davis was the right thing to do. I'm giving Rudy next year, not 30 games.

 

Your TRoss criticism is absurd.

 

Amir isn't supposed to be a top 10 PF, what are you talking about lol.

 

Who cares what kind of team we had when aquiring JO. BC traded a first round pick and banked on his health and that he would be a integral part. He was wrong and then had to trade him along with another first round pick just to get rid of him. That pick he gave up, #17, the players drafted right around that spot where Hibbert, McGee, Ibaka, Batum, George Hill.

 

He had the best advanced stats but meanwhile Houston didnt want him back. Dude was hella injury prone and hadnt played a full healthy season since 2007 and what do you know? He comes to the Raps and cant stay healthy. The guy also couldnt get along with the coach similar to what happened in HOU. You bring up his contract but the guy is a free agenct after this season and the Raps will have to overpay to keep him and he will no longer be on a sweet deal.

 

Bargani wasnt the worst selection, it could have been worse but Alrdridge was selected #2 and is now a all star. Rudy Gay fit that current lineup with Bosh so well but wasnt taken. We drafted a PF when we already had a franchise player at that position. Sure saying total bust might be a little unfair because he could have done something worse like selecting Morrison or Tyrus Thomas but he totally whiffed on the pick. Bosh lobbyed for Aldridge to be chosen and BC went against that and was wrong in the longterm.

 

DD is not a top 10 shooting guard. Not even close when you factor in defense and contract. Like earlier mentioned contracts in a cap sport are important and hes making more money then he should. Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, James Harden, Andre Igoudala, Manu Ginobili, Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, JJ Reddick, Kevin Martin and Monta Ellis are all better then DD. DD isnt a bad player by any means, but the guy has no range, cannoth play D and is on a not so great contract. Most Raps fans expected DD to develop into a much better player then he is. Damn go over to realgm and most of the more knowledgeable posters will tell you they arent DD fans.

 

Rudy Gay was aquired for a young developing PF and Calderon who had a awesome expiring contract that teams wanted. Gay is a good player, but hes getting paid great player dollars and has only one year left on his deal. He's a second banana getting paid like a franchise player. I didnt give Gay only 30 games, I've watched him since his days at UConn and the guys a good player but his outrageous contract makes him fairly unattractive.

 

My Criticism of Ross is in no way absurd. 22 years old is OLD for a nba rookie. The selling point on him was that he would be NBA ready and could 3 and D. It turns out that he wasnt even close to being ready and although had some nice highlights was extremely inconsistant and didnt show the shooting he was lauded for. Like I said the guy has potential and should turn into a solid role player, but there was much better players on the board like Drummond. You talk about "development" but here Ross really didnt improve that much thruout the season.

 

You talked of Amir like hes some budding force. He's a nice piece but nothing special. The Jays have many pieces basically the equilvalent to him or DeRozan or Ross.

 

Heck I even like some of these players like Amir and Ross, but they arent gamebreakers. The point is Colangelo has been a utter collossal fail. AA has been bad but its alot easier to build a team fast in basketballl seeing theres so few players and this raps team actually doesnt look all that great. If everything goes right maybe the make the 7th/8th seed. Then your going to need to re-up both Lowry and Gay to expensive longterm deals. This teams ceiling looks underwhelming and the smart thing to do would actually be tearing it down.

[Tuco]

No, but he doesn't need to. That Jonas Valanciunas pick was laughed at and criticized beyond belief. Here he is two years later and Bryan can say he was able to have the foresight to take the best player rather than make the flashy pick to save his job, which he ended up keeping regardless.

 

Let's not underestimate what the NBA draft means to basketball. It defines you as a GM. Bryan hasn't messed up a pick if you think rationally.

 

Sure he has.

He selected Bargnani #1 and hes basically a writeoff at this point.

Aldridge went #2 and made the all star team.

 

How is that not missing on a pick? What makes is worse is Bosh actually publically said we should take his buddy.

[Tuco]

BC traded a first round pick for James Johnson.

Then a season later traded him for a second round pick.

[oakville69]

So far: Yan Gomes and Mike Aviles = 1.2 WAR. Esmil Rogers = 0 WAR.

 

That's quite impressive by Yan Gomes. I liked him. He was the first Brazilian in the MLB. He had some pop in his bat.

[ElNik2013]

That's quite impressive by Yan Gomes. I liked him. He was the first Brazilian in the MLB. He had some pop in his bat.

 

 

 

Gomes hits a walkoff HR, his 2nd of the day! AA turning this franchise into a laughing stock

[Boxcar]

Who gives a f*** about basketball? Ugh.

[Nox]

Yan Gomes is basically JPA lite offensively.

[Olerud363]

He is, but lets be honest here: Yan Gomes sucks.

 

?? Why do you say that?? He's a utility guy who can play the corners and catch, and has some pop in his bat.

 

That's a valueable player. The sorta player Tampa would probably value.

 

The Jays don't seem to value versatility. A versatile player probably won't fit a particular mold, so his weaknesses tend to be emphasized on a scouting report. As well a good bench player is often not a great regular, because if the player was a great regular he wouldn't be a bench player.

 

Yan Gomes could be incredible for what he is. He's kind of where Ed Sprague was once. I wouldn't be surprised if he could put together an Ed Sprague like career. Though he probably won't pop 36 homers (which was nothing when Sprague popped them in the middle of the steroid era).

[Olerud363]

Yan Gomes is basically JPA lite offensively.

 

How can he be JPA lite when his OPS is higher then JPs?? His career major league OPS will end up being higher then JPs after today's 2 homers. Small sample size, ofcourse.

 

His overall minor league OPS, and his aaa OPS are both higher then JPA as well.

 

This makes no sense. He's very similiar to JP.

 

The data so far indicates he's a tad better as a hitter.

[GD]

The data so far indicates he's a tad better as a hitter.

 

Tad better than JPA = complete s***.

[ElNik2013]

Tad better than JPA = complete s***.

 

 

Unfortunately, the Jays' scouting handbook disagrees.

[Olerud363]

Tad better than JPA = complete s***.

 

I agree with that... Just saying JPA is so bad it's very hard to outdo him in terms of badness and be a "JPA Light".

[Olerud363]

Yup, I've been saying this all along. They're both safe until Oct/14.

 

Their survivors. I have a feeling that the team is headed for 82 wins this year. They won't really be "in it" for a single day.

 

18th overall draft pick. Never in it for a day. Do it again next year.

[oakville69]

He is, but lets be honest here: Yan Gomes sucks.

 

Yan Gomes could run to second without needing an umpire to bail him out on the ball that Blanco hit. Blanco probably threatened the umpire's family.

 

Why does everyone hate Yan Gomes?

[mitchf]

Yan Gomes could run to second without needing an umpire to bail him out on the ball that Blanco hit. Blanco probably threatened the umpire's family.

 

Why does everyone hate Yan Gomes?

It's not about hating Yan Gomes, it's about looking at his swing and realizing how many holes he has. Pitchers will face him for the second time and I'm willing to bet he goes from hero to below replacement level play. Hey wait, that's what he did here.

 

I'll never forget Bob McCown calling Yan Gomes the jays first baseman of the future. Thought his bat would be deadly.. Hah

[GD]

I'll never forget Bob McCown calling Yan Gomes the jays first baseman of the future. Thought his bat would be deadly.. Hah

 

Tell me he didn`t actually say that.

[mitchf]

Is this real life? Good god he'd stupid.

 

Tell me he didn`t actually say that.

He absolutely did, lol Brunt looked at him like he was crazy.