Murphy Effect??

[kgm1]

Wonder if our woes this early are from the Murphy Effect . We are 14th in Avg. 14th in OBP , 11th in runs scored , yet 2nd in Home runs . That tells the whole tale . AA brought in Melky ,Jose Reyes , and Izturis to address the OBP problem . Reyes is hurt . melky has an OBP of 301 and Izturis 246 . The whole team still seems to be swinging for the fences and that never works .

 

This team has few that have a two strike approach thus the K rate is ugly . I know this isn't Mottola,s approach , Is Murph still being heard ?

[GeorgiaPeach]

Wonder if our woes this early are from the Murphy Effect . We are 14th in Avg. 14th in OBP , 11th in runs scored , yet 2nd in Home runs . That tells the whole tale . AA brought in Melky ,Jose Reyes , and Izturis to address the OBP problem . Reyes is hurt . melky has an OBP of 301 and Izturis 246 . The whole team still seems to be swinging for the fences and that never works .

 

This team has few that have a two strike approach thus the K rate is ugly . I know this isn't Mottola,s approach , Is Murph still being heard ?

 

Ken, if Cito's still around I wouldn't be surprised the odd time if he's heard. Its a shame at how persuaded players can be to change their philosophy to this really, really retarded way of hitting. I'm sure Murphy has his roots with some players and they still chat about hitting. Its a shame.

[Anemic0ffense]

It's gotta be someone telling these hitters to be aggressive at all times... The OBP's and lack of patience this team has is nauseating at best

[kgm1]

Don't know why Melky ,and Macier have adopted this approach too . Only Lind seems to be using all fields . I'm really tired of this approach when it should be obvious to these hitters that it isn't winning any games .

 

We could be the first team ever to lead the league in home runs and be last in runs scored

[Metallijay]

Wonder if our woes this early are from the Murphy Effect . We are 14th in Avg. 14th in OBP , 11th in runs scored , yet 2nd in Home runs . That tells the whole tale . AA brought in Melky ,Jose Reyes , and Izturis to address the OBP problem . Reyes is hurt . melky has an OBP of 301 and Izturis 246 . The whole team still seems to be swinging for the fences and that never works .

 

This team has few that have a two strike approach thus the K rate is ugly . I know this isn't Mottola,s approach , Is Murph still being heard ?

 

I don't blame murphy, the team was built around selfish hitters with horrendous plate approach. The coaches have been saying the strike outs, hitting approach and hitting w RISP has been an issue, but every game guys like EE, JP, Rasmus, lawire,Boni go up hacking without any adjustments based on pitcher patterns, situation. It's frustrating to watch guys strike out swinging hard with 2 k's all game on the same low breaking balls and outside breaking balls. This is just a really flawed hitting team. It's how it was put together. I can count on 1 hand how many times a jays hitter tried to take an outside pitch the other way all season.

 

Edwins bat today was a perfect example. Buchholtz just walked a guy, you go up take the first pitch unless it's a get me over meat ball. What does he do? Swings hard and reaches for a pitch on the edge low for a first pitch put..... He made up his mind to swing before the pitch was throw, it's stupid baseball. In that case you take unless it's over the plate, where is the pitch recognition?

 

Rasmus and boni in particular are horrid to watch. Look at this lineup, the middle of the order is filled with guys with averages around .220. When your 3 and 4 hitters are hitting below .200 with RISP, and just .220 overall, you got issues.

[Tuco]

It's gotta be someone telling these hitters to be aggressive at all times... The OBP's and lack of patience this team has is nauseating at best

 

I dont even understand why they kept Murphy around.

By hiring Motolla you're basically saying you think hes a better hitting coach then Murphy and even to some extent like his hitting philosophy more. It really makes no sense to keep this guy around and have him potentially speaking to some players and fogging the overall message. I mean they have him coaching 1B and thats the easiest job in the sport. Was AA too much of a wuss to just let Murphy go because it would upset Cito? Seems like the case.

[Metallijay]

I dont even understand why they kept Murphy around.

By hiring Motolla you're basically saying you think hes a better hitting coach then Murphy and even to some extent like his hitting philosophy more. It really makes no sense to keep this guy around and have him potentially speaking to some players and fogging the overall message. I mean they have him coaching 1B and thats the easiest job in the sport. Was AA too much of a wuss to just let Murphy go because it would upset Cito? Seems like the case.

 

Breaking bad best show ever, besides the wire.

[kgm1]

<<<>>>>.

 

That is why AA brought in guys to address the OBP problem . Reyes , Melky and Izturis , and a new hitting coach to address this issue . baustista,s OBP has been over 400 for the last 3 years . EE has a career OBP of 342 . This team was built with a combination of decent OBP guys infront of decent OPS guys who hit in front of sluggers . That they aren't following their last few years norms isn't AA or Gibbons fault. Murphy teaches a pul approach and feels OBP is overrated . Mottola teaches a use all fields approach

[Captain Adama]

<<<>>>>.

 

That is why AA brought in guys to address the OBP problem . Reyes , Melky and Izturis , and a new hitting coach to address this issue . baustista,s OBP has been over 400 for the last 3 years . EE has a career OBP of 342 . This team was built with a combination of decent OBP guys infront of decent OPS guys who hit in front of sluggers . That they aren't following their last few years norms isn't AA or Gibbons fault. Murphy teaches a pul approach and feels OBP is overrated . Mottola teaches a use all fields approach

 

After looking at the whole team spray chart, Davis is the only guy hitting with the whole field. This upsets me.

[Terminator]

Posters are still blaming Murphy?

[Metallijay]

<<<>>>>.

 

That is why AA brought in guys to address the OBP problem . Reyes , Melky and Izturis , and a new hitting coach to address this issue . baustista,s OBP has been over 400 for the last 3 years . EE has a career OBP of 342 . This team was built with a combination of decent OBP guys infront of decent OPS guys who hit in front of sluggers . That they aren't following their last few years norms isn't AA or Gibbons fault. Murphy teaches a pul approach and feels OBP is overrated . Mottola teaches a use all fields approach

 

?? Never said it was gibbons fault...most of the hitters on the team hit this way, no coach is going to change this.

[Tuco]

After looking at the whole team spray chart, Davis is the only guy hitting with the whole field. This upsets me.

 

I'm curious, how many opposite field hits do Rasmus, JPA, Jose and EE have combined?

[kgm1]

Posters are still blaming Murphy?

 

 

Just asking the question , Matt . murph is the 2nd hitting coach . It is his pull approach that these guys are using . Is it them or is his voice ruling

[Tuco]

Just asking the question , Matt . murph is the 2nd hitting coach . It is his pull approach that these guys are using . Is it them or is his voice ruling

 

Or it could be that the bad habits that this team has had the past few seasons just arent fixed in such short time periods.

 

I also imagine a guy like Lind is paying more attention to what CM is selling then Jose or EE.

[Captain Adama]

I'm curious, how many opposite field hits do Rasmus, JPA, Jose and EE have combined?

 

Data from Texasleaguers.com:

 

Encarnacion has 3, Rasmus has 2, Bautista has 1(?) and JPA has 5. (These are hits that are considered right field, centre field hits not included)

 

So 11 combined out of the 113 hits total between them. Or 9.7%

[kgm1]

Data from Texasleaguers.com:

 

Encarnacion has 3, Rasmus has 2, Bautista has 1(?) and JPA has 5. (These are hits that are considered right field, centre field hits not included)

 

So 11 combined out of the 113 hits total between them. Or 9.7%

 

Hopefully these guys start taking the ball up the middle or opposite field like Mottola is preaching soon can you imagine the defenses we will face once this data spreads thru the league . Stacked infields on the pull side for everyone

[ElNik2013]

Wonder if our woes this early are from the Murphy Effect . We are 14th in Avg. 14th in OBP , 11th in runs scored , yet 2nd in Home runs . That tells the whole tale . AA brought in Melky ,Jose Reyes , and Izturis to address the OBP problem . Reyes is hurt . melky has an OBP of 301 and Izturis 246 . The whole team still seems to be swinging for the fences and that never works .

 

This team has few that have a two strike approach thus the K rate is ugly . I know this isn't Mottola,s approach , Is Murph still being heard ?

 

I agree that Murphy shouldn't have been kept around, but it's tough to blame him for guys that are on their first year with the team yet refuse to give him credit for Bautista and EE's OBP's. Cabrera's OBP is .040 points higher than his BA, last year it was .044 points and in 2011 when he got 200 hits, it was up like .35 points so the reason for his low OBP is his low BA. Izturis is walking less no doubt, but he's also 32 now and if he continues to increase his BA, I would think his walk rate will normalize, or let's hope it will.

 

Bautista and EE seem to be walking as much as last year, Rasmus a little more. Lind is certainly walking way more. JPA is who he is, let's not beat a dead horse. Lawrie is certainly a concern. There's no doubt that better discipline would lead to a higher BA and OBP as well as fewer K's, but as much as I disagreed with keeping Murphy, I won't blame him for the offense's problems.

[ElNik2013]

Or it could be that the bad habits that this team has had the past few seasons just arent fixed in such short time periods.

 

I also imagine a guy like Lind is paying more attention to what CM is selling then Jose or EE.

 

 

Agreed on both points. On the other hand, I don't think Bautista and EE had a walk rate problem. The guys that this team needs to improve are guys like JPA, Rasmus, Lind and Lawrie and of these 4, Lind has shown a big improvement and Rasmus some improvement. JPA we won't discuss and Lawrie is worse so far.

 

The team also has a BA problem, I mean for Rasmus/JPA to hit .230 and have an OBP around .330, they'd have to walk around 20% (?) of the time, I mean that's not realistic.

[saskjayfan]

I hear a lot of names people are complaining about except the one guy everyone wanted gone after the first week of the season...yup adam lind. There were one or two of us who stood by lindy and indicated he was having quality at bats, working the count, not striking out and taking walks back when he was 0 for 14 to start the season and that the hits would come. Lind is a thing of beauty..he doesn't have to overswing to generate power. When you overswing you lose the angles that allow you to stay on the ball and square it up....Lindy is such a different looking player this year.

[TheHurl]

It's very much an org wide thing. Hearing the Dayton announcers talk about how Hawkins was asked to change his approach in around mid summer last year to develop more power, it just another example of it (worst part is that he's added no power). Here is our list of guys with a 10% BB rate or higher (with their age.

 

Adam Lind 29.92 TOR 20.00%

Peter Mooney 22.83 DUN 17.40%

Kevin Ahrens 24.17 NH 16.30%

Ryan Schimpf 25.17 NH 16.20%

Brian Van Kirk 27.83 NH 15.80%

Jose Bautista 32.67 TOR 14.60%

Mauro Gomez 28.75 BUF 14.30%

Ryan Langerhans 33.33 BUF 14.10%

Munenori Kawasaki 32 2 Tms 14.10%

Adam Loewen 29.17 2 Tms 13.60%

Clint Robinson 28.33 NH 13.30%

Sean Ochinko 25.67 NH 13.30%

Brad Glenn 26.17 NH 13.20%

Kevin Nolan 25.5 NH 12.80%

Kellen Sweeney 21.75 LAN 12.60%

Jon Talley 24.33 DUN 12.50%

Michael Crouse 22.58 DUN 12.50%

Anthony Gose 22.83 BUF 12.40%

Andrew Burns 22.83 DUN 12.30%

Jason Leblebijian 22.08 DUN 11.80%

Eugenio Velez 31.08 BUF 11.70%

Josh Thole 26.67 BUF 11.60%

Jose Reyes 30 TOR 11.60%

Emilio Guerrero 20.83 LAN 11.60%

Jorge Flores 21.58 LAN 11.30%

Dalton Pompey 20.5 LAN 11.10%

Oliver Dominguez 24.17 DUN 11.10%

Seth Conner 21.42 LAN 11.10%

Jonathan Jones 23.83 DUN 10.20%

Aaron Munoz 24.5 2 Tms 10.00%

Luis Antonio Jimenez 31.08 BUF 10.00%

Balbino Fuenmayor 23.58 LAN 10.00%

Mark DeRosa 38.33 TOR 10.00%

[Dr Negative]

This entire organization from Beeston and AA through to the minor league coaches does not believe in the usefulness of OBP as a stat. This is obviously a shame since maximizing OBP is the correct way to play the game.

[Boxcar]

It's very much an org wide thing. Hearing the Dayton announcers talk about how Hawkins was asked to change his approach in around mid summer last year to develop more power, it just another example of it (worst part is that he's added no power). Here is our list of guys with a 10% BB rate or higher (with their age.

 

Adam Lind 29.92 TOR 20.00%

Peter Mooney 22.83 DUN 17.40%

Kevin Ahrens 24.17 NH 16.30%

Ryan Schimpf 25.17 NH 16.20%

Brian Van Kirk 27.83 NH 15.80%

Jose Bautista 32.67 TOR 14.60%

Mauro Gomez 28.75 BUF 14.30%

Ryan Langerhans 33.33 BUF 14.10%

Munenori Kawasaki 32 2 Tms 14.10%

Adam Loewen 29.17 2 Tms 13.60%

Clint Robinson 28.33 NH 13.30%

Sean Ochinko 25.67 NH 13.30%

Brad Glenn 26.17 NH 13.20%

Kevin Nolan 25.5 NH 12.80%

Kellen Sweeney 21.75 LAN 12.60%

Jon Talley 24.33 DUN 12.50%

Michael Crouse 22.58 DUN 12.50%

Anthony Gose 22.83 BUF 12.40%

Andrew Burns 22.83 DUN 12.30%

Jason Leblebijian 22.08 DUN 11.80%

Eugenio Velez 31.08 BUF 11.70%

Josh Thole 26.67 BUF 11.60%

Jose Reyes 30 TOR 11.60%

Emilio Guerrero 20.83 LAN 11.60%

Jorge Flores 21.58 LAN 11.30%

Dalton Pompey 20.5 LAN 11.10%

Oliver Dominguez 24.17 DUN 11.10%

Seth Conner 21.42 LAN 11.10%

Jonathan Jones 23.83 DUN 10.20%

Aaron Munoz 24.5 2 Tms 10.00%

Luis Antonio Jimenez 31.08 BUF 10.00%

Balbino Fuenmayor 23.58 LAN 10.00%

Mark DeRosa 38.33 TOR 10.00%

 

Christ, no wonder they can't develop any good hitters. You'd think a grown adult would learn from such massive failure.

[Captain Adama]

Christ, no wonder they can't develop any good hitters. You'd think a grown adult would learn from such massive failure.

 

Anyone can look at stats, therefore, they're useless.

[TheHurl]

actually I did a search and they aren't that much different that most teams in that area. Just we had mostly older players up there.

[GD]

Kevin Ahrens 24.17 NH 16.30%

 

Holy s***, Kevin f***ing Ahrens. Ugh. That guy was supposed to be great.

[GD]

Anyone can look at stats, therefore, they're useless.

 

You heard Zaun say that too? Sigh.

[Terminator]

This entire organization from Beeston and AA through to the minor league coaches does not believe in the usefulness of OBP as a stat. This is obviously a shame since maximizing OBP is the correct way to play the game.

 

Source?

[EdelweissBouquet]

Ken, if Cito's still around I wouldn't be surprised the odd time if he's heard. Its a shame at how persuaded players can be to change their philosophy to this really, really retarded way of hitting. I'm sure Murphy has his roots with some players and they still chat about hitting. Its a shame.

 

 

When Cito managed 2 teams to WS victories, his players hit for

good average, but he doesn't get any credit from some of you.

Yet when his players hit for low average, it's because of his swing

for the fences philosophy, a philosophy he didn't practice in 1989/94.

Now that he's not managing,his residual negative effects still affect current

players ? Yeah right..anyone who really accepts this excuse probably

has a life long scientology membership.

Why stop with hitting..lets blame cito for our pitching woes,also he's

the reason we still have artificial turf.

Face it, these players are just not that good, there have been some

dumb moves made and dumber to not make moves that were available

to AA in the off season.

In 1989, cito took over from J williams who had a 12-24 record <-- looks familiar ?

and guided the jays with a 77-49 record to win the AL east title. Cito won a few AL east

titles, but all went down hill after interbrew purchased the jays.

[GD]

@Edelweissboquet, you were Komodo on the old board, right?

[Olerud363]

I don't blame murphy, the team was built around selfish hitters with horrendous plate approach. The coaches have been saying the strike outs, hitting approach and hitting w RISP has been an issue, but every game guys like EE, JP, Rasmus, lawire,Boni go up hacking without any adjustments based on pitcher patterns, situation. It's frustrating to watch guys strike out swinging hard with 2 k's all game on the same low breaking balls and outside breaking balls. This is just a really flawed hitting team. It's how it was put together. I can count on 1 hand how many times a jays hitter tried to take an outside pitch the other way all season.

 

Edwins bat today was a perfect example. Buchholtz just walked a guy, you go up take the first pitch unless it's a get me over meat ball. What does he do? Swings hard and reaches for a pitch on the edge low for a first pitch put..... He made up his mind to swing before the pitch was throw, it's stupid baseball. In that case you take unless it's over the plate, where is the pitch recognition?

 

Rasmus and boni in particular are horrid to watch. Look at this lineup, the middle of the order is filled with guys with averages around .220. When your 3 and 4 hitters are hitting below .200 with RISP, and just .220 overall, you got issues.

 

Rasmus and Boni were both much better with other organizations. They both had a .330 career on base percentages with thier former organizations. Now come to Toronto and all of a sudden they are absuolutely horrible?? I gotta think the coaching or environment must have something to do wtih it....