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The Prospect/Minor Leagues Thread

theblujay

By theblujay
in Toronto Blue Jays Talk

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Olerud363 FCL Blue Jays

Olerud363

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
But isn't what he said true?

 

Stop being a little bitch and have a conversation with someone. He isn't being irrational, his points are valid and you just run from the conversation.

 

It isn't absurd to think that a guy who spent four years at the D1 level didn't receive the same if not better instruction at school than he did in the lower minors. Now at 24, the odds he develops an out pitch that make him a #3 are against him.

 

His Anthony Gose reference wasn't far off. Gose is only ~6 months older than Boyd. If Gose happened to better his plate discipline it's not unreasonable to think he's a 2-3 WAR center fielder.

 

The Anthony Gose comparison was beyond ludicrous... it was insane. It was the worst comparison you could ever have for Boyd

 

The positive about Boyd is that HE IS PERFORMING. The (so called) negative is that HE DOESN'T HAVE AN OUT PITCH so he will stop performing when he comes to Toronto.

 

Anthony Gose did not really perform in the minor leagues. He was young for his leagues but Vegas had that huge park factor thing...

 

Anthony Gose DID NOT PERFORM. He can't stop performing because he didn't start.

 

The appropriate comp. for Boyd would be a college hitter who is hitting .298 .405 .490 in the minors but that will not translate because he does not have power and has a "hole in the swing", Gabe Gross, maybe David Cooper **

 

Though I think Cooper might of hit OK if he didn't get that crap injury. We will never know.

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L54 Vancouver Canadians

L54

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
The Anthony Gose comparison was beyond ludicrous... it was insane. It was the worst comparison you could ever have for Boyd

 

The positive about Boyd is that HE IS PERFORMING. The (so called) negative is that HE DOESN'T HAVE AN OUT PITCH so he will stop performing when he comes to Toronto.

 

Anthony Gose did not really perform in the minor leagues. He was young for his leagues but Vegas had that huge park factor thing...

 

Anthony Gose DID NOT PERFORM. He can't stop performing because he didn't start.

 

The appropriate comp. for Boyd would be a college hitter who is hitting .298 .405 .490 in the minors but that will not translate because he does not have power and has a "hole in the swing", Gabe Gross, maybe David Cooper **

 

Though I think Cooper might of hit OK if he didn't get that crap injury. We will never know.

 

Nobody cares about Gabe Gross or David Cooper. I promise you.

 

The main point I'm trying to illustrate is that if you're willing to acknowledge Matt Boyd's ceiling is that of a number three starter, you can't simply tell me Anthony Gose's ceiling is not that of 2-3 WAR CF (more realistic, All-Star was a little excessive).

 

Anthony Gose did perform though. He was an above average hitter for three straight seasons in the minors, doing so at a younger age than Boyd.

metafour First Round Pick

metafour

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
The Anthony Gose comparison was beyond ludicrous... it was insane. It was the worst comparison you could ever have for Boyd

 

It wasn't a "comparison" you tard; it was an example used to show how utterly stupid the supposed "max potential" argument was. Yeah, if Boyd magically starts throwing a plus breaking ball all of a sudden he could be a #3 starter. Yeah, if Anthony Gose all of a sudden learns to make contact and read pitches he's an All Star centerfielder. Neither is likely to happen, get the point? The point of reference is that both guys have had ample opportunities to show these skills that they are lacking, yet they're both past the stage of development where you can actually hope that they'll all of a sudden "learn".

 

Boyd is a good pitcher, all I'm saying is that a select few of you are taking a kid who wasn't even supposed to become anything and subsequently overblowing his ability. His status has risen, but a few ticks in fastball velocity doesn't all of a sudden erase the fact that he has no true plus secondary pitches, which will absolutely hamper his MLB potential.

Atothe Vancouver Canadians

Atothe

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
It wasn't a "comparison" you tard; it was an example used to show how utterly stupid the supposed "max potential" argument was. Yeah, if Boyd magically starts throwing a plus breaking ball all of a sudden he could be a #3 starter. Yeah, if Anthony Gose all of a sudden learns to make contact and read pitches he's an All Star centerfielder. Neither is likely to happen, get the point? The point of reference is that both guys have had ample opportunities to show these skills that they are lacking, yet they're both past the stage of development where you can actually hope that they'll all of a sudden "learn".

 

Boyd is a good pitcher, all I'm saying is that a select few of you are taking a kid who wasn't even supposed to become anything and subsequently overblowing his ability. His status has risen, but a few ticks in fastball velocity doesn't all of a sudden erase the fact that he has no true plus secondary pitches, which will absolutely hamper his MLB potential.

 

Not the same thing at all. Plate discipline is something that can rarely be learned and not taught. Above averages secondary can be learned through a new grip and repetition. Ability to make contact is even trickier. You have to take in things like the swing, bat speed, bat control.

Atothe Vancouver Canadians

Atothe

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Are there currently value stats (like war or wRC) for prospects? You could just add them together?

 

No war but there is wRC+. Not a lot of comprehensive stats but they're getting better

nmrch Draft Eligible

nmrch

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Anthony Alford with another solid game, 0-2 but 2 BB and 1 HBP and most importantly, no K's. His walk rate on the year is now at 19.8%, that's super impressive from a guy who's not hitting for power because he's not drawing walks because pitchers are afraid to challenge him, he seems to have elite pitch recognition skills.
Atothe Vancouver Canadians

Atothe

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Anthony Alford with another solid game, 0-2 but 2 BB and 1 HBP and most importantly, no K's. His walk rate on the year is now at 19.8%, that's super impressive from a guy who's not hitting for power because he's not drawing walks because pitchers are afraid to challenge him, he seems to have elite pitch recognition skills.

 

You think pitchers are afraid of him or are you just joking?

ElNik2013 FCL Blue Jays

ElNik2013

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
You think pitchers are afraid of him or are you just joking?

 

I thought he said the opposite of what you think he said.

L54 Vancouver Canadians

L54

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Not the same thing at all. Plate discipline is something that can rarely be learned and not taught. Above averages secondary can be learned through a new grip and repetition. Ability to make contact is even trickier. You have to take in things like the swing, bat speed, bat control.

 

It really has more to do with turning a blind eye to the players we don't want to acknowledge as opposed to the odds Anthony Gose becomes an All-Star.

nmrch Draft Eligible

nmrch

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
You think pitchers are afraid of him or are you just joking?

 

no, that was awkwardly phrased but i said he's drawing walks not because pitchers are afraid of him but because he has good pitch recognition skills.

Nafro First Round Pick

Nafro

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

Jairo Labourt, 5IP, 3H, 1ER, 2BB, 2 SO

Daniel Norris, 6IP, 5H, 2ER, 3BB, 9SO

Jesus Tinoco, 6IP, 8H, 4ER, 0BB, 6SO

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