Eat My Shatkins

I know what I posted. You told me I was setting myself up for disappointment, I'm telling you I won't be disappointed if they don't get any of those guys. I'm confident they'll have an effective rotation next year either way. Then you s*** on that too lol. So knock yourself out man, s*** away if it's what you want to do. I think Scherzer will stay in LA, but I grouped him with two other #1 starters and I "hope" the Jays can sign one of them. Syndergaard is a huge question mark at this point. The guy's basically been injured for 2.5 years now. It'll be a gamble for whoever signs him. I hope the Jays get to take that gamble though. Either way, the Jays did a good job last year of turning a s*** rotation into a very good one. Since they are starting a better place I'm sure they'll be just fine.

Oh ok I see. I guess we're pretty much f***ed then. lol

Nah. I'm not worried. Even if they get spurned by all those big names I'm pretty confident the Jays FO will have a strong rotation next season. They are apparently pretty good at finding starting pitching. Look at what they had to work with last off season...Ryu and a bunch of question marks. Then to top it off Ryu ended up having his worst season, and Pearson didn't take a step forward like everyone had hoped, yet the Jays still had a very good rotation. This off season they already have a much stronger nucleus to build around with Berrios, Manoah, Ryu and Stripling.

I imagine the Jays will kick tires on Rodon too. Hopefully they can get one of Scherzer, Ray, or Rodon Really hoping they can get Syndergaard to sign as well. If not let's hope they can bring Matz back. 1. Sherzer/Ray/Rodon 2. Berrios 3. Ryu 4. Manoah 5. Syndergaard/Matz That'd be one hell of a rotation.

What's Stroman probably going to get? 6 x $20 million? 5 x $25 million? I really hope the FO can get Berrios extended this off season.

Honest question, did it seem like Charlie actually started making better decisions as the season went on? Or was his idiocy just being masked by the Jays winning more?

Exactly. I have no idea if they want that or not, but it's an unrealistic assumption that they could be interested in saving $20 million by moving out a 36 year old player when they just finished last in the central. It just depends on whether they think they can bounce back next season or not and compete for a wild card in 2022.

Agreed. That's why I'd be fine with, for example, letting Semien walk, putting Biggio back on 2nd and then upgrading Espinal at 3B with an acquisition like Donaldson (cheaper cost) or Ramirez (way more expensive to acquire). Espinal on the bench. Or if you re-sign Semien, then you let Biggio and Espinal battle for the spot at 3B. Loser of that battle on the bench.

Is 3 years $15 million per enough to get Matz signed? What about Thor? 1 year $10 million enough? If yes, would you rather have Matz + Thor for $25 million next season or Ray for $25 million?

I was a little down on Groshans after this season, but looking at his numbers and age I guess he actually had an OK season after all. At 20 Bo put up 120 wRC+ in AA and Groshans ended up with 124 wRC+ in AA as a 21 year old. The next season Bo had 244 PA's at AAA before getting promoted to the rebuilding Jays roster despite being a league average hitter in AAA. The Jays won't be rebuilding next season, so guys like Groshans and Moreno will probably have to light AAA up before getting the call, but there is still a decent chance both make their debuts next season. And you also have to wonder how Lopez and Smith will fit into all of this. Lopez, Smith, Biggio, Espinal, Valera, Groshans and maybe an outside chance they get Moreno playing some 3B as well, maybe the Jays won't be spending big money on any free agent infielders this off season after all? Maybe pour the money into pitching and the core players instead?

Suuure, NOW the f***ing useless Red Sox can win against the Yankees. Couldn't win even one of three last week though.... Useless pieces of s***

I'm ok with one of Espinal or Biggio as a starter next season, but I don't think both is a good idea at all.

This is why I keep suggesting something like Grichuk and Smith for Donaldson. The Twins save money on this deal (just about $20 million total) and get a prospect who's pretty much ready to try his craft at the MLB level and replace JD at 3B, we fill a hole at 3B and get a more productive player for our money without having to make a long term commitment. Then go hard after a LHB that can play some OF, DH and maybe even fillin at 1B. Plan A - Schwarber Plan ? - Dickerson

Honestly, boo-hoo for the Dodgers. The Jays won 91 games while playing more games than anyone in MLB against above .500 teams (91 total) in the hardest division in MLB, only finished 4th in the division and don't get to play a single playoff game. They would kill for the chance to play the Cards in a one game show down right now, and then face the Giants if they won that. BTW the Dodgers only played 62 games against above .500 teams. The Jays also had the 5th best run differential in MLB despite that gauntlet of a schedule.

I still think JD is a good target as long as he and the FO can bury the hatchet. He can come here, fill a huge hole but he doesn't have to be THE guy this time around, which is good because he's 36 now. Plus he only has two seasons left so it's not a long term commitment. Send them Grichuk and Smith. Grichuk has two years left at $10,333,333 and JD has two years left at $21,000,000 (plus a team option). Then as I've said plenty, try to sign Schwarber as the 4th OF, DH and once in a while 1B. 1. CF Springer 2. 1B Vladdy 3. 3B Donaldson 4. SS Bichette 5. DH Schwarber 6. RF Hernandez 7. LF Gurriel 8. C Jansen / Kirk 9. 2B Biggio That line up would murder pitchers.

Ray for me, easily. Jays have a strong nucleus of young core position players under control and more on the way in likely the next 1-2 seasons with Moreno, Groshans and Martinez. If you lose Semien it'll be a blow, but the offense will still continue to produce for years to come. As for starting pitching... 1. Ryu, old and just 2 years left 2. Berrios, hopefully extended but just 1 year left as of now 3. Stripling, 1 year left of control and more of a swing man and spot starter 4. Pearson, struggling with injuries and finding consistency So, the only proven starter they have under control for a while is Manoah and they don't have anything in the pipeline that you can count on being a factor. Really hoping they can get Ray and Matz extended this off season, providing they believe those guys will have continued success under Walker.

Angel Hernandez next please

Honestly wouldn't shock me to see the Jays try to do just this. Instead of bringing back Ray and Semien for huge money and term, they maybe go out and try to find the next Ray and Semien and sign them to 1 year show me deals. Story and Syndergaard for example.

Is there a reason I can't think of why Scherzer and the Dodgers won't just stay married to each other? Have to think Bauer is toast, and Kershaw is a free agent too.

The Blue Jays played more games against teams above .500 than anyone else in the league. 1 more than the Yankees did, and 2 more than the Rays did.

Here is what the Jays are looking at right now without any off-season moves made yet: C - Jansen 1B - Vladdy 2B - Biggio 3B - Espinal SS - Bo LF - Gurriel CF - Springer RF - Teo DH - Bench OF - Grichuk Bench IF - Bench UT - Valera Bench C - Kirk Depth position players on the 40 man: Mcguire, Smith, Moreno, Lopez, Palacios SP - Berrios SP - Ryu SP - Manoah SP - Stripling SP - Pearson CL - Romano SU - Cimber RP - Merryweather RP - Mayza RP - Richards RP - RP - RP - Depth pitchers on the 40 man: Hatch, Castro, Kay, Thornton, Snead, Borucki, Saucedo, Baker It's actually a pretty decent team just like that to be honest, and there are several different ways the FO can go to try and improve on it. Biggest places to make improvements: Position players/bench: 2B (Biggio), 3B (Espinal) and 4th OF (Grichuk) Starting pitching: Stripling, Pearson Relief pitching: Probably need to sign 2 or 3 high quality arms with a history of durability. They also don't have a full time DH, but if they can upgrade the 4th OFer spot they can keep rotating players through the DH role to give position players a day off in the field while keeping their bat in the line up. This is why landing Brantley would have been so nice last off season. Maybe they can snag Schwarber this off season to take that type of role.

Manager, bullpen and not playing at Rogers for half the home games turned this 99 win team into a 91 win team

I don't think the FO will f*** around this off season. They'll get done what needs to get done, and this team will have a realistic shot at 100 wins next season.

Grichuk and Smith for Donaldson Sign Schwarber Re-sign Ray & Matz Sign 2 high quality relievers C - Kirk / Jansen 1B - Vladdy 2B - Biggio 3B - Donaldson SS - Bo LF - Gurriel CF - Springer RF - Teo DH - Schwarber C - Jansen / Kirk IF - Espinal UT - Valera OF - Somebody fast who can play CF (Bring Dyson back?) SP - Ray SP - Berrios SP - Ryu SP - Manoah SP - Matz Long man 1 - Stripling Long man 2 - Pearson Closer - Romano Setup - Free agent (Givens?) Setup - Free agent (Neris?) RP - Merryweather RP - Cimber RP - Mayza RP - Richards Depth relief - Borucki Depth relief - Saucedo Depth relief - Castro Depth relief - Baker Depth relief - Snead

They already extended Montoyo and then the team won 91 games. He isn't getting canned.