Brownie19

Of course it is. It all is. Almost everything you hear from any front office, reporters or industry experts is ********. f***, most the s*** on here is too. You haven't been drinking the kool-aid have you?

Christ Jonn - even Barkerfan knows the answer to your question. You're so enraged with these trades you're not thinking straight.

Rays non-tendered CJ Cron last year after a 2.1 WAR season. He had less than 6 years service time. TB realised he's not that good and likely wouldn't repeat or justify the raise he would get. Twins signed him and still have him under control next year before he becomes a FA in 2021.

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1805942 That's a cool story...although he's hitting 96 by crow hopping into the pitch... That said - that kid has some really smooth mechanics!

Regardless - one of the worst starting pitchers in baseball was certainly a non-tender candidate. Thank god Biagini and Stevenson have value so we can give Fisher a shot.

You must have missed the all-star game. Max Muncy is one hell of a baseball player.

Man - what happened to Austin Barnes? 3.7 WAR, 142 wRC+ with almost a 1:1 BB:K ratio in only 262 PA's in 2017. He looked like the next coming of Jason Kendall. Now he's back in AAA after hitting like Goins the past 2 years. This kid hit in every stop throughout his career.

Here's a great example of how one missing word changes EVERYTHING.

Why would you come to that conclusion? You literally have zero information on the topic.

It's bizarre they say Stevenson doesn't have a position when reports were he was phenomenal defensively in CF

Obviously. But he's a top 15 prospect in baseball who's now 22. He was awful in the majors last year and they haven't given him a sniff this year either. If he can't get extended playing time in the Astros OF, how the f*** is Fisher going to?

Kyle Tucker also can't crack the Astros OF and was significantly worse than Fisher last year. You think he sucks too? You must have LOVED the Clay Buchholz signing this spring. He was good in 2010, 2013 and 2015. He's "proven he can be on the top with the big guys he did it before".

That is utter nonsense. If Sanchez finished the season strong, he would have been worth more than a 4th OFer? Next year is his walk year. If he became what Roark was this year (which would be a massive turn around for someone who's been s*** for 3 straight years)....the market for Roark was Jameson Hannah - a soon to be 23 year old in A+ ball. His upside? probably a 4th OFer at best. It's also utter nonsense to suggest this team is running the team like TB and will just trade the young guys for prospects. The team needed to rebuild after 2015 and 2016. My 7 year old knew that. You need waves of young talent to create a sustainable winner. That's what we're doing. You have no idea what this FO will do once the team gets good. Don't assume. What a f***ing brutal take on things man.

I understand that. Cal's a fun guy to follow. I love OBP guys too, but the reality is - guys with no power usually flop as soon as they start facing pitchers who can throw strikes consistently.

Maybe. Trading one of the worst starting pitchers in baseball + average bullpen piece + prospect with ISO <.100 to get a quality 4th OFer with control is a win man. He he excels, Teo or Grich probably become the 4th OFer. Again...the 4th OFer plays on average, 160 games per year. The 4th OFer is really important and is essentially an everyday player. Perhaps you could inform Kevin for us.

Great point - Sanchez could have continued helping the Jays tank in 2020. We really gave up one of our most valuable pieces. Where else are we going to find a starter who can give us 150 innings of 6+ ERA baseball? Our 1st overall chances just dropped significantly.

Great point. 4th OFers are never required. They don't, on average, play about 160 games per year.

The argument that Sanchez would have dominated in the pen and provided more value in a trade next year is bogus. Even if he became an all-star closer like Greene....look what Detroit got for him this year. The best argument I've seen is extending Stroman would have been better than the return we got. I'd probably agree; however, without knowing how much he wanted or whether he was serious about re-signing - you can't judge that. Are you so sure the return for Bauer was tangibly better than what the Jays got for Stro? I'm not. The Grich thing has been bad, but I understand the logic. Sign him before he truly breaks out and get some value out of the deal. If he posted a 4 WAR year in 2019, we'd all s*** on Atkins for not extending him before he commanded big $$'s. The good news with Grich is the floor is pretty high. Good, versatile defense and solid base running. At worst, he's still a good 4th OFer.

Cal Stevenson's ISO is <.100 He was interesting to follow, but why are we still talking about him? Soon to be 23 year old guys without power don't walk or produce once they reach AA/AAA.

What's interesting is they said sellers prices didn't drop as the deadline approached. Contrary to the reports that Atkins destroyed the market by giving away Stroman. As pointed out - all of these reports are just utter ******** posturing, but the reality is - the price for the top starters wasn't very f***ing high at all. The top prospect anyone received in the Stro, Bauer, Grienke deals was Logan Allen for f*** sakes. 98th overall prospect.

This is such ******** man. Look at the market for OK rental pitchers. The A's just got Roark for Jameson Hannah - a 21 year old OFer who's posting a 103 wRC+ in A+ ball. He's a 45 FV player, now ranked as Cincy's 10th overall prospect. There's a good chance he never plays in the majors. Roark posted 1.8 WAR at the time of the trade, while Happ posted 1.9 WAR when the Jays dealt him last year. Both were FA's at the end of the year. We got Drury, who was coming off a 1.1 WAR season. Versatile player and McKinney, who was once somewhat touted, just changed his swing. The probability that Drury and McKinney are nothing is relatively high. The probability that Jameson Hannah is nothing is relatively high. That's what you get for that type of player. If a GM makes 4 trades like this, he might 'hit' on them once. Atkins 'hit' on A.Diaz already. Let's hope he can 'hit' a few more times...but that's the reality we're in.

Atkins came from a publication?

Couple of things. 1. People say we shouldn't have traded Sanchez because his value is too low. I just heard multiple people on Sportnet say it. NEWS FLASH. Aaron Sanchez has been f***ING AWFUL for 3 years now. One of the worst starters in the majors. He's a FA after 2020....how much f***ing longer are you going to wait? He's thrown 3 or 4 decent games in a row? like f*** me - how many times is this guy going to fool you? 2. People say the Astros are going to make Sanchez an Ace or some dominant reliever because that's what they do. If you believe that - then get pissed off the Jays seemingly did f*** all to try and reinvent Sanchez. He's been s*** for years now. Be pissed we seemingly aren't able to fix pitchers (like the Sox did with Giolitto). 3. People complain Fisher is a AAAA player. He has 312 PA's over 3 seasons. He's never been given any extended opportunity. You could argue that's because Houston doesn't think much of him...but guess who else can't get extended playing time in the Astros' OF? Kyle Tucker. He's going to be amazing right? He gave them -0.7 WAR in 28 games spanning 72 PA's last year and he's stuck in AAA now. There is certainly a possibility the Astros simply have held back these 2 over the past couple of year. 4. The mega prospect packages some thought might be available for the any of the top starting pitchers or relievers. Dodgers aren't moving Lux or May, Twins aren't moving Kirilloff, Astros aren't moving Tucker or Whitley, Braves kept their SP prospects, Yanks didn't move Garcia. The highest ranked prospect moved was Trammel at 30th and most here thought the Padres got ripped off moving Allen and Reyes for him. The next highest prospect traded? Logan Allen at 98 and Seth Beer at 100 (as per MLB.com). I suspect most would say the best value was C.Martin (who's out all next year), JBB (who can't throw strikes) and Beer - 100th overall prospect. Some are s***ing all over Atkins for not waiting until the last minute or for misreading the market? I don't see it. Fans need to adjust their expectations on trade returns. Teams - even ones ready to 'win' are very reluctant to move top prospects. Period. End of story. You can argue he should have held out for a couple more lottery tickets - but f*** me - that's nitpicking IMO.

Did you see what the Braves gave up for Greene, who's been pretty dominant this year? Braves get him for this playoff run + next year. You think Sanchez could be as good as Greene in the pen? Even if he does - you think he'll return more next year as a pure rental?

I think you're mis-remembering what Pompey looked like in CF...errr, maybe that was after his first concussion where he looked like a t-ball player?