Brownie19

I actually think there's a decent probability that things play out the way Joltin Joe has suggested. They trade all the rentals at this deadline because they do want to contend next year. As my good friend jaysblue suggested, if you squint really hard, you could see the Jays add offense (corner OFer, DH, maybe 3rd base), another SPer and some bullpen help via free agency. That coupled with bounce back years from Bo, Gausman, Berrios and hopefully some breakout years from the youngsters and there's a real possibility we can make the playoffs next year. But - there's also a real possibility that it blows up in their face again and they are big time sellers before the next deadline. Vlad, Bo, Gausman, Bassitt, Berrios, Springer, Varsho, Green, etc. could all be moved (yes, it's unlikely they would ALL go, but they'd all be potentially on the table). That cookie of potentially contending next year, combined with ownership pressure to keep the dome full to pay for the reno's may ultimately extend our rebuild time as player value will decrease as they inch closer to free agency. That said, in some cases (like Bo and Gausman), their values may not decrease as much if they can rebound next year (v. their current value). If they do pull it together and make the playoffs again in 2025 - perhaps it's all worth it.

OldFart making random things up seems par for the course unfortunately.

I'd be curious what the %'s say about putting the tying run on first and bringing the winning run to the plate. That's historically been a baseball "no-no", but obviously with the batter being Judge, that would skew the %'s a lot (getting close to how it would have been skewed back in the day with Bonds).

I had to listen to the game on the radio today, but it was a fun game to follow!

Thanks friendo...I never knew Fangraphs added that!

What is Miller's stuff+ this year? Manoah's fell off the table last year....if he really Manoah's?

Yeah - I'm with you on that one friendo.

That's a true story. f*** that guy.

are her tits real?

That is text book public speaking. Right now could mean several things, including absolutely nothing, as "right now" is technically past as soon as you say it.

Why do you see that as a positive? I'm not sure I'm very supportive of this. I do wonder if this direction of only selling expiring contracts is simply because they want the new GM (to be named after the season) to be the one make the decisions on Gausman, Bo, Vlad, Bassitt, Berrios, etc...

The narrative that you don't like the Blue Jays FO? That's the narrative I'm trying to create? I don't think anyone needs to try and create that. I guess you may like Shapiro and hate Atkins, but Shapiro is responsible for Atkins and is the one keeping him around, so if you hate Atkins, then I'm not sure you should be super supportive of Shapiro. I mean you can like the reno's and stuff, but from a baseball perspective, you must feel Shapiro is failing Rogers and Jays fans everywhere no?

I'm going to support you for once (I'm trying new things). I suspect what you're saying is all 100% true and it's credible enough for me. But - you have to acknowledge how ridiculous that's going to sound when posted on a message board. One reads that connection and in their head it sound like it's a friend of a friend who has a cousin, who's boss plays Fortnite with a kid who's Dad was in the same room as Shapiro and the Rogers CEO. As you say - overhearing something comes with some inherent risk that they misunderstood something, or things could certainly change - but I still take it as interesting info. I'm not overly surprised, although I do think the team would be best to seriously consider trades of Bassitt, Gausman and Berrios (and Kikucci of course) if there are legit offers on the table for their services.

100% You'd have a 4th starter who sat at 87/88, struck out 5 per 9, walked 3 per 9, and threw 200 innings a year. The pitching depth and hitters were just so awful back then. The game has advanced so far.

This thread is titled "Does anyone actually trust Ross Atkins and Shapiro to be at the helm for a rebuild?" After someone posts that Shapiro is actually the one making all the decision and another post about how Larry Dolan was desperate to get rid of him and how fans hated Shapiro....you bring up a couple of critical trades that Shapiro made during his time in Cleveland and suggest "only Michael Brantley amounted to anything" and regarding the Carrasco trade say "the rest of the package was garbage". Hopefully you can you see how one might interpret that you don't think Shapiro did a good job in Cleveland and/or with those trades. I have no obsession with this front office. I have an obsession with people who only look at results to form opinions, those who can't understand probabilities and factors outside of a GM's control and who fail to see both sides of an argument. I did the exact same thing with people who complained and bitched about AA ad nauseam.

I think there were reports confirming this a few weeks ago.

Bud, you started this discussion by suggesting the returns that Shapiro got for CC and Lee weren't very good. The majority suggested that was a bad take, as getting Brantley and Carrasco for 1/2 a season of CC and 1 1/2 seasons of Lee was actually quite good. When you factor in that Shapiro got Sizemore, Phillips and Cliff Lee for 1 1/2 seasons of Bartolo Colon, it becomes pretty evident that Shapiro had a pretty good track record of executing trades during his time in Cleveland. Want to add to this? Remember when Shapiro fleeced AA by getting Yan Gomes and Mike Aviles for Esmil Rogers? Gomes immediately gave Cleveland a 4.4 and a 4.9 WAR season.

Outman might not work because he sucks.

Nobody said he was. We said he was a good return for 1 1/2 years of Cliff Lee. Try to keep up please.

I think the age and large jump in K% raised a lot of flags for Martinez - but he seems to have fought off father time yet another year.

If you squinted the past couple of years, you wouldn't have seen Schneider, Horwitz or Leo either as future big league contributors either.

She came out and said she was drunk and has checked into a rehab this morning. An apology was issued. If true, then that's sad, but good on her for recognizing the problem and taking steps to deal with it.

I'm not so sure about that. I do think at the start of the year, he was providing some positive defense, but his def is now -7.6 at the all-star break. He's on pace for one of his worst defensive seasons to date.

Agreed. We're actually quite lucky that Schneider, Leo and Horwitz look like MLB contributors, or the outlook would be even worse.

Agreed. Lux is a bust. LA f***ed one of the top prospects in baseball somehow