Brownie19

Perhaps - but I would disagree with the notion that all these players are competent. The talent on this team isn't good enough - no matter who the coaches are. I continue to believe fans overestimate how much impact a coach has. This isn't U12 baseball. Suggesting a coach is to fault because a veteran hitter can't adjust to the new ways of pitching is odd. There are all kinds of different factors with a veteran hitter that are outside of a coaches or the organization's control. Just look at how many free agents signings suck balls this year. It's not all bad coaching. That's nearly impossible - especially when you see FA signings excelling and others failing on the same team.

f***ing right he does. I haven't seen him yet (sleepover was part of the b-day party he was at) to see how pissed off he was. Hopefully he was full of hot dogs and ice cream and still had a blast.

Arozarena to Seattle!

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Will his arm fall off? Will his performance decline with the large bump in innings pitched? or will he be able to build upon what he did this year?

Looks like the experiment to start Hicks is coming to an end. He's around 100 IP and his effectiveness has dropped every month. BB/9 over 5.50 the last 2 months. His fastball was sitting around 94 MPH in his last game. SF may move him to the pen now. Will be interesting if they put him back in the rotation to start next year and continue trying to build his innings up.

My youngest is at the game. He's the biggest Jays fan I know, so let's go get the W today please!

Nah - they don't have unlimited resources anymore. They'll be focused on bringing back Soto on a mega deal. Can't see it myself.

Isn't this where Shapiro and Atkins essentially started? I mean 2016 was fun, but once that year was over, there wasn't much for them to work with either. As John noted - that's how most new GM's start. Only a few walk into a gold mine like AA did in Atlanta.

Sounds about right as Vlad won't be able to see very well or perform at T-Mobile Park. Then we can re-sign him when he hits the FA market in 2027!

Astros and Padres have s*** farm systems as per the gospel Bleacher Report. But Seattle has the #1 farm system in baseball - so let's pillage them!

The good news is that farm systems are relatively easy to fix in short order. Teams go from Bottom 5 to Top 10 in just 2-3 seasons (they can also go the other way that fast too).

Bonilla is just a lottery ticket as are most international signings. Always hard to know how they'll adjust to life in North America. We got Kirk for like $15,000, so it equals out.

He won't be the face of the franchise if we trade him! Problem solved.

I wouldn't conclude that at all. Vlad's always done his own thing. When he struggles, the Jays fly in his relatives to work with him because those are the only people he "trusts". This has been on-going for years, which was quite frustrating when he was a 118 wRC+ ground ball hitter who was pushing his hands forward. I actually think there's a possibility that Vlad finally gave up on using that approach and is finally listening to the professional hitting coaches on the team... Castro Bros did a good breakdown of the adjustments he's made - Castro Bros (@castro_bros) • Instagram reel WWW.INSTAGRAM.COM 3,903 likes, 45 comments - castro_bros on July 6, 2024: "He is in better situation with the hands now 🫡🔥 #softball #softballlife #softballdrills #softballstrong #fastpitch #softballlove #softballsisters #miami #florida #fastpitchsoftball #fastpitchlife #baseballmom #baseballlife #baseballisback #baseballseason #baseballboys #baseballplays #baseballlove #baseballfan #hitting #hittingdrills #hittingpost #hittingcoach #hittingmechanics #hittingbombs #hittinggoals #hittinginstructor #texasbaseball #californiabaseball".

Maybe it's the angle, but it looks like the balls come out of his hand weird. He lands quite open too.

I would agree with this. Even Dave Stewart would look at this O's roster and think "we should move Mullins and Mountcastle - they suck and are getting expensive. We should try and get a couple lottery tickets for them now instead of non-tendering them this offseason". Does the FO deserve credit for being in the position where they can afford to move these guys now? Yes - yes, they do. Their drafting and development has been amazing lately.

I'm just saying there are legit arguments that he isn't the guy to build around or give that money to. Even teams with big payrolls will feel the pain of an underachieving anchor. We paid Springer $25M because he was a 6 WAR star player and he was a great fit to add amongst our young nucleus. I think the hope was he would give us a couple of seasons at 5-6 WAR, a couple of seasons at 3-4 WAR and a couple of seasons at 1-2 WAR. He came with intangibles and a ton of playoff success. He was a perfect fit for this young team IMO. Unfortunately, he's aged a little faster than expected. To be clear - I really don't know what the right answer is. I'm just presenting the alternative view on it. Vlad's age is a huge factor as well. If the team thinks he's a 150+ wRC+ hitter over the next 5-6 seasons, then I think he's worth signing - even though I think some of those years will be wasted as we re-tool and aren't contenders. If he's a 130 wRC+ bat, I think I'd definitely entertain what you could get for him.

I think the concern is that he shouldn't be the face of the franchise. Is Pete Alonso the face of the Mets and some must keep superstar? I don't think he is - Lindor is, because he's a legit star. 3 WAR players aren't worth long term deals (say 10 years $250M, which is what I expect it will take to keep him). It's just a bad investment for the long term success of the team. Of course if Vlad is a 150-170 wRC+ hitter, then he's a legit star, no matter how bad his defense and base running is - and maybe he is! That's the challenge right now. I agree this could be a PR nightmare and have some short term impacts on the team, but there's also risk that he's an anchor on the franchise, when we should be trying to find a true "face of the franchise" guy to build around. Has connorp come on to remind us that big time bats (even if they come with other major liabilities like defense and baserunning) are worth FAR more than their WAR suggests? Isn't he always telling us how Schwarber, Teo, Castellanos, etc. got PAID as free agents over guys who get value from defense and base running because hitting is more important in the playoffs and therefore valued more? Maybe we should be viewing Vlad as a 5-6 WAR player instead of a 3 WAR player? Maybe he's right?

You've forgotten to factor in Vlad's IQ, which is like -4

To be fair - the Nats/Harper situation is a good example. However - winning the WS the year Harper left greatly accelerated any mourning period the fanbase may have had. That won't be happening in Toronto. I'm with Stangstag on this one. I think most of the fan base is casual and doesn't realize how pedestrian Vlad actually is as a player. Most kids who are into baseball and follow the Jays love Vlad. I think we're in for some gloomy years and trading Vlad, then rolling out some 70-80 win teams is going to have a major impact on the gate, tv ratings, etc. Of course I think long term, it may be the right thing to move on from Vlad. If we had some young hot shot prospect or new face of the team in the wings who could step right in - that would be ideal, but we don't. I ultimately think they keep Vlad - whether that's right or wrong. I do hope he settles in as a 150 wRC+ type hitter over the next 5-6 seasons. The talent is obviously there and I can live with the s***** defense, base running and antics if he hits like that. Hopefully some maturity helps him be more consistent.

They both suck. They aren't blocking anyone. The O's just want to get some value for them as they no longer need them and they have "some" value. Likely moved for a few lottery tickets.

Mullins and Mountcastle suck. That's why they want to trade them.

seriously though - wouldn't this lineup get it done? Springer - RF - 105 wRC+ Bo - SS - 120 wRC+ Vlad - 1st - 140 wRC+ Teo - LF - 130 wRC+ JDM - DH - 130 wRC+ Horwitz/Schneider - 2nd - 115 wRC+ Varsho - CF - 95 wRC+ IKF - 3rd - 95 wRC+ Kirk - C - 90 wRC+ Bench - Clement, Horwitz/Schneider, Barger (or Leo) & FA Catcher With a little luck (maybe Springer's figured something out, maybe Kirk returns to a 115 wRC+ hitter, maybe someone breaks out), that's a really good offense that didn't sacrifice "that" much defense. My apologies for adding the dig in.

Just sign Teo to play LF and Pederson or JDM for our DH. Wasn't out season sewered because Atkins signed KK and Turner instead of them? Sign a replacement for Kikucci and Garcia and boom, we're contenders!

I think I agree with this. I think I'd cash in on Vlad now. That would be extremely unpopular with fans and likely Ownership, but short and long term, that's probably the best thing to do. It's encouraging to see how he's hit the last few months, but I'm not convinced he'll ever be that 150-160 wRC+ star player we hoped for. Interesting to see how they handle this. Wouldn't look great to trade him right after he's been so vocal about wanting to play in Toronto....but sometimes you have to make those hard decisions.