jaysblue

If the Jays end up winning WC3, I think we all need to pitch in and buy SeranthonySantander a Swiss Chalet gift card!

Other Arizona outfielders/CFs at the time were Corbin Carroll, Jake McCarthy and Alek Thomas, with McCarthy and Thomas both considered possible trade candidates. Neither exactly became a star afterward. McCarthy did have a 3-WAR season in 2024 and has played well for Colorado this year, but Varsho has still been the better player overall since 2023. And realistically, Arizona probably wasn't trading Corbin Carroll for Moreno anyway. Did Arizona specifically prefer Moreno over Kirk? Who knows. We don't even know whether that choice was Toronto's or Arizona's. What we do know is that since 2023, Kirk and Moreno have produced almost identical value: roughly 11 WAR for Kirk and 10 WAR for Moreno. The Jays also have Kirk locked up on a team-friendly deal through 2031, while Moreno can become a free agent after 2028. So yes, Moreno > Varsho since 2023 in terms of overall value, and Kirk > Varsho as well. From a pure value standpoint, Arizona has won the trade so far. But the gap isn't remotely as massive as people make it sound. If Varsho had simply stayed healthier and been a little better offensively, he probably would've accumulated somewhere around 10–12 WAR with Toronto by now, making this deal pretty even overall.

77.8% of moneyline tickets and 75.9% of the money yesterday was on Boston.

Great point!

Defensively, Varsho was still more superior than Pillar in CF. In 2022 and 2024, that was prime Varsho defensively. Offensively, Varsho came with more pop, upside and was a better overall all offensive player when he was going right. Pillar couldn't even crack a 100wRC+more than once. Pillar pretty much was similar to Ernie Clement right now. Overall, Varsho had his moments here for us in Toronto, but overall never reached the expectations we all had for him unfortunately. Some subpar performances and injuries played their part. Would have been nice to see what a healthy Varsho in 2025 could have done over a full season offensively. Likely would have been a 4-WAR outfielder with 30+ HR's if he played in 140-150 games.

Keep the momentum going! Would be nice to at least get the split here guaranteed this early in the series!

He pitched Saturday. I saw he got ejected before Sunday's game however for chirping at the ump from Saturday who called him on a balk during the 5th inning lol.

The hope during this stretch is to stay within striking distance and not fall too far behind. As well, if they come out of it playing well, gives them some momentum and something to build on during their next stretch of 15 games against the Royals, Mariners, and Guardians. If they finish this stretch still 3.5 or 2.5 games back, consider that a success. If they fall further back like 5.5 or 6.5 back, season is over.

I know we basically declared the season over a couple of weeks ago, but this next stretch really could be the final nail in the coffin. If they can split the Boston series and then take at least 2 of 3 from both the Yankees and Rays, that gives them an 8-5 record over those 13 games. It doesn’t move the needle dramatically, but it at least keeps them within striking distance of the third Wild Card without falling even further behind. Obviously, if they could somehow go 9-4 or 10-3, that would be huge and might actually make things interesting again. I just don’t think that’s very realistic given how they’ve played this season.

I'm available to come out of the pen tonight! Can top out at 80-85 and got my 45 mph Barry Zito 12-6 hook curveball that I could throw in for some swing & misses!

RA Dickey won a Cy Young Award when he was 38, maybe Waldron could as well.

Nobody is complaining. I simply said trading Hoffman at the deadline hurts more if the Jays end up making a late run, because they don’t really have another late-inning reliever with that kind of swing-and-miss stuff. Hoffman was giving them a 14.12 K/9 with a 2.50 FIP. That’s different from Gausman, who they replaced with Soriano, or Varsho, where they can still run out Sanchez, Bateman or Straw without completely falling apart at the position. Hoffman’s specific role and stuff are much harder to replace internally. Unless someone steps up like Miles, Fisher or Estrada in the late innings.

Yeah the Hoffman trade was the biggest hit on the team IMO if they were to go on a late run this season. Not easy to replace his arm at the back end of the pen, especially the way he's been pitching since May. Would have been nice to keep Varland/Rogers and Hoffman all together, but understand. Let's hope the pitching prospect they got is worth it!

Was in NYC for the weekend as I was travelling back from Europe and went to the Braves/Yankees game yesterday. Couldn't pass up watching a Chris Sale vs. Gerrit Cole pitching matchup. Both likely future Hall of Famers.

Just stop it man.

Very well said! Soriano is a great arm to have during the regular season in terms of giving a team quality innings and durability over 162. He's still alright being your #3 or #4 starter during the Postseason. Like you mentioned with Bassitt - he was great to have over the course of a 162 game season because those innings and durability are important. Though Bassitt was hardly relied on during the Postseason, only out of the bullpen, where he actually was very effective. Did we want him starting a Game 2 of a Postseason series though? In a 5 or 7-game series, I think you still need another pitcher that is close to Cease's caliber when you battle a team like the Yankees, or Dodgers, or anyone for that matter. Maybe Yesavage steps up into a #2 or even Soriano takes his game to another level next season, who knows.

We saw Cleveland last trade deadline do a "light sell" and retool, and they ended up winning their division. Detroit I believe the previous year traded Jack Flaherty at the deadline and went on a run during the last two months to win their division. Jays won't win their division, but the 3rd WC is still within some reach especially in a weak AL. Just keep winning and playing good baseball, and we'll see what happens. When you look at it, they upgraded their rotation by replacing Gausman with Soriano. They strengthened their depth with Josh Smith, who could pretty much play every position other than catcher. Losing Varsho in CF means either Straw/Sanchez will be playing out there on a regular basis which is meh, but Varsho wasn't really lighting it up with the bat anyways and his defense has slipped a bit. I can't believe I'm saying this, but probably trading Hoffman hurts the most if this team went on a run, since he really has turned things around since his implosions in May and has been one of the most dominant relievers in baseball. They kept Springer, who looks like he's starting to heat up with the bat a bit, which is encouraging if they did go on a run. Scherzer maybe looks like he could give us 8-10 decent starts down the stretch as the #5 starter. Gotta hope Bieber could figure things out. As well, need Vladdy and Kirk to both heat up over the last two months and who knows maybe with less pressure, they might.

I still believe and will hop on the bandwagon!

Just look at the numbers already this season between Detmers and Soriano. Detmers already about 1 full fWAR above Soriano in the same amount of innings this season. Detmers also comes with a better K/9 (10.44), BB/9 (2.74) and FIP (3.35) over Soriano (9.29), (4.17), and (3.79). Regardless, I'm also happy with acquiring Soriano and like I said previously, if he could lower the BB/9 here and pitching under Pete Walker, he could move to the next level and perhaps be a 4+ WAR arm for the Jays. I just think Detmers comes with more upside - like's he's capable of possibly putting up a Jesus Luzardo 2025 type season (5+ WAR season) with his stuff and strikeout ability.

Hoffman's tenure in Toronto didn't go exactly as hoped. He showed dominance at times, though with the occasional implosions which were ugly. He was definitely settling in after being removed from the closers role and despite his early struggles this season, has been have a solid 2026 (1.2 fWAR, 2.49 FIP with a sick 14.06 K/9). Would have been nice to see this bullpen core stick around again in 2027, though nice deal getting some youth back for him.

I like Spencer's arm. Some nice K upside and under club control until 2031. He's a work in progress, but definitely will benefit being under Pete Walker and the Jays coaching staff.

It's alright, I know how you are after all these years. Your arrogance showing once again.

Can you chill? I never said one bad thing about the deal at all or even criticized Atkins. Yes, he's more of a #3 guy at the moment. If he lowers the BB/9, he likely could take the next step, which I acknowledged in my post. Also, I said it would be nice to possible squeeze a 4-5 WAR season out of him, which might happen here under Pete Walker and this Jays staff.