jaysblue

How the hell does Cal Quantrill have a 2.90 ERA?

The game was fixed.

For last night’s game (Dylan Cease vs. Kumar Rocker), DraftKings’ betting splits reportedly showed roughly 79–81% of moneyline tickets on Toronto, but an enormous 97–99% of the actual money wagered was on the Jays at around -136/-137. Texas had only about 1–3% of the handle at +113/+114. Add in all the parlays that likely included Toronto, and sportsbooks had to love that result. Then Cease goes out, walks six batters, records only eight outs, and finishes with just three strikeouts. Considering how much action there was likely on Cease strikeout overs as well, it ended up being almost a perfect result for the books. I'm not saying the game was fixed or directly influenced. There’s obviously no evidence of that. But with MLB now so closely intertwined with sportsbooks and betting apps, nights like this are exactly why I find myself questioning the authenticity of North American professional sports more than I used to. When such an overwhelming percentage of the money is on one side, that team completely implodes, and virtually every popular Cease prop gets wiped out at the same time, it’s hard not to at least raise an eyebrow. Especially if it's already planned that the Jays won't make the Postseason. Call it conspiracy thinking if you want, but last night was certainly one of those games that makes you wonder.

How the hell did Michael Lorenzen make 25 starts this season? Geez!

I’d rather bring Bo back to play second base if he opts out of his deal with the Mets. I wouldn’t complain about Arraez, though defensively he doesn’t really fit this front office’s MO. And even if they did bring him in, they’d still need to find more power elsewhere in the lineup.

Gotta hope Chicago has an epic collapse over these final 1.5 weeks.

That's fair, and I agree this definitely predates Atkins. The Jays haven't really been a true pitching-development factory under any regime for a long time. AA probably came the closest simply because he drafted so many arms. Stro, Sanchez, Osuna and Boyd all came through that system, with Thor obviously being traded before reaching Toronto. And while Morrow was acquired, the Jays deserve some credit for helping turn him into a very effective starter for 2-3 years when he was healthy. Even before that, JPR had Marcum, while Romero gave them 2-3 genuinely strong seasons before everything fell apart. And going back to Ash, you had Halladay, Carpenter and Escobar, with McGowan drafted late in that era and developing under JPR. So I completely agree this isn't some uniquely Atkins-era problem. The Jays have struggled to consistently develop pitching for decades. Where I still think the criticism is fair, though, is that Atkins came from an organization that was arguably the best in baseball at finding and developing pitching, and after more than a decade here, with far more resources and a state-of-the-art development complex, Toronto still hasn't really created a sustainable pitching pipeline. That doesn't mean the standard should be Cleveland or even Tampa. Very few organizations can consistently do what they do, and you're right that even the Dodgers have had to spend enormous amounts externally on pitching. But that's also why I think this remains one of the fairer criticisms of Atkins. Not that he failed to turn Toronto into Cleveland, but that after this much time and investment, they still haven't become particularly good at producing a steady stream of useful MLB starters and relievers. And to be fair to Atkins, acquiring starting pitching really hasn't been an issue. Gausman, Cease and Bassitt were real strong FA additions. Ray gave them an excellent season-plus after being acquired, and trades for guys like Berrios (earlier on) worked out pretty well. So far, Soriano hasn't looked too bad, but I still think he's more of a #3/4 when it comes to a Postseason rotation. They've generally been able to build a respectable rotation by going outside the organization, so Atkins deserves credit in that area.

They should move the Lab from Dunedin to Okinawa or Jeju Island haha.

I never knew Vladimir Putin was part of the Jays organization.

Drew Anderson quietly putting together a nice season in Detroit. Solid signing from the KBO.

I think #3 is probably the biggest factor, but at this point Atkins can't really be separated from #2 either. Cleveland's pitching development obviously wasn't just Atkins carrying some secret formula with him. It was an entire organizational machine from scouting, drafting, analysts, minor-league coaches, pitching coordinators, etc. But he's also been in Toronto for more than a decade now. At some point, building that kind of infrastructure here was part of the expectation. If there’s one area where I think criticism of Atkins is absolutely warranted, it’s this. The Jays have spent enormous amounts on Dunedin, the lab, technology and player development, yet they still haven't come close to Cleveland's ability to consistently turn relatively unheralded arms into useful MLB pitchers. And I don't think the standard is developing an ace every other year. If they were regularly producing solid #3/#4 starters and quality relievers internally, that would be a huge success. Instead, Toronto has repeatedly had to spend money or prospect capital acquiring those types of pitchers. Draft position, lost picks and injuries all matter, but after this many years it's hard to chalk the lack of pitching development up entirely to circumstance. That's what makes it interesting: Atkins came from an organization known for doing more with less in pitching development, moved to one with far greater resources, and Toronto still hasn't developed that same kind of advantage.

Not against the Soriano deal, but I do understand where Glory is coming from. Pretty much every rotation arm for the Jays the last 4-5 years was either a big FA signing (Cease/Gausman/Bassitt/Ponce/Scherzer), or trading prospect capital for an arm in their late 20's (Berrios/Bieber/Soriano). The only arms the Blue Jays have really developed were Manoah and Yesavage. Could add Miles in there as well if you want. Will give Atkins credit however - he's nailed his FA signings when it comes to big arms. Gausman and now Cease. Would be nice if this organization can churn out more arms (even just mid-rotation guys) rather than always having to spend either $200M on a top arm or trading prospect capital for an arm.

Good question. Looking at some comparable's. Bo will be 29 next season Opening Day. Maybe 6 years/$140M - similar to what Trevor Story signed with the Red Sox at the same age. Or maybe something similar to Cody Bellinger (5 year, $162M). Or max I would go would be Willy Adames like Spanky said (7 years/$182M).

I dropped him in the LOD before the season FFS during a roster crunch. Pissed off!!!

I think they need to bring Bo back to play second base. His bat would be such a huge addition to this lineup, and maybe Bo in the lineup takes some pressure off Vladdy.

D'Backs have a thing for poor defensive outfielders who have some pop but can't get on-base lol.

Hope they score a ton of runs off Rogers this afternoon! Let's go!

I think most people on this board would have been in favour of adding a huge bat like Buxton if he was actually available at the deadline. It’s easy to look back now that he’s injured and say it would have been a bad move, but that’s pure hindsight. At the time, adding that kind of impact bat to this lineup would have made a lot of sense, especially for a team trying to make a serious postseason push. As for Robert Jr., I would’ve been fine with the Jays putting in a claim, but I’m also not upset that they passed. At the time, I thought he was worth the gamble if you believed there was a chance he could carry some of that August success into September. The upside was obviously still there, and we were running Daz Cameron out there as our right-handed OF option, so it wasn’t exactly a high bar to clear. I also stated that if Robert went back to being an 80–90 wRC+ bat, then it probably wouldn’t have made much difference and it would have been a costly $5 million gamble. But if the August version carried over, he could’ve actually given this lineup some badly needed impact. For roughly one month, I understood the argument either way. What ideas did you come up with? Just curious. I mean, this is a baseball forum, and considering how awful the Jays’ lineup has been for most of the season, obviously we were all looking at possible trade targets or any other potential upgrades that might have been available and realistic. It was just discussion.

Nothing against Gimenez, Straw or Bieber individually, but this is where the difference between organizations like Cleveland and Toronto really stands out. Cleveland seems to churn out these types of players internally all the time: glove-first middle infielders, 4th/5th outfielders and solid mid-rotation arms. Meanwhile, the Jays are the team paying significant salaries to acquire players like Gimenez, Straw and Bieber. Brayan Rocchio has already put up 3.1 WAR this season, they seemingly always have another Straw-type outfielder available somewhere in the organization, and they continue to develop young starters who can step into the rotation, like Messick and Cantillo. That’s really the frustrating part. Cleveland can replace these types of players internally for close to the minimum, while Toronto often has to spend money or prospect capital to fill the exact same roles.

I called this a month ago. White Sox going to choke down the stretch.

Vlad sighting at Woodbine Casino or Fallsview Casino next week guaranteed.

I think Schlittler ends up getting the Cy Young in the AL. His ERA potentially could be below 2, has made 30 starts (3 more than Cease), and has a lower BB/9 (2.12 vs. 3.74). Cease definitely had a Cy Young caliber year himself, but I think Schlittler deserves it more. As for the NL, I still think Miz wins but there are definitely other solid contenders for sure. Luzardo, Sale, Sanchez (not sure his last start helped him though). Some arms to keep an eye on for next season: Detmers, Tolle, and Gavin Williams in the AL. For the NL, Burns, Cavalli, and Meyer.

My only HR in house league was an inside-the-park home run and the team was only playing two outfielders. Had to run my heart out to cross the plate.