Laika

Closest thing in recent history might be Victor Robles. He, like Vlad, was a special prospect getting 65+ FV grades and arguable #1 prospect consideration 4 WAR at 22 years old then immediately replacement level forever Yoan Moncada was 70 FV prospect and had 5 WAR at 24 years old then... one dead cat bounce after Benintendi was 65 FV and 4.4 WAR at 23 then sucked (mostly) Meadows was 65 FV then 4 WAR at 24 then horrible Alex Reyes was 65 FV but injuries Eloy was 65 FV but injuries Franco was 70-80 FV then pedophilia Whitley was 65 FV then sucked and injuries Royce Lewis was 65 FV and cannot stay healthy Lux was 70 FV then sucked Gore was 70 FV has not lived up to that Adell 65 FV then strikeouts This is only looking at Fangraphs since 2017 and who they put 65+ FV grades on Maybe we lick our fan wounds too much RE Vlad? I know some of the language around him as a prospect was hyperbolic ("messianic hit tool") but we all knew he was a zero speed zero defense player with immense pressure on the stick and we all know or should realize that 65+ FV still fail or disappoint at a decent clip. He's a bum. Need to get over it. Realistically he had less than a coin flip's chance of being the player we hoped, anyway. The projection systems are misleading. ZiPS is a liar. Steamer cannot be trusted.

I think the Leafs were just bad with sick Matthews in there because they were giving all those minutes to someone who sucked (sick Matthews). With him out everyone else just has clear roles and they aren't wasting ice time on a zombie. Leafs sort of dominated last night. Well, they dominated half the game. Pastrnak and Marchand were non-existent. I can't believe Boston is giving shifts to Pat Maroon. He can't even skate anymore.

I think the nuance kind of plays out like this: - hitting coaches probably have minimal impact to no impact on the majority of players - therefore, from an outside perspective it makes the most sense to assume that the hitting coach is NOT the cause or reason for a certain player being bad or good - however, there is a tiny chance that a hitting coach could have a significant impact (or, that a bad hitting coach could f*** up a player) - therefore, it makes sense to employ good ones. The cost vs. benefit is simply there. How much does a good hitting coach make, low six figures? If you can get 5% more out of one $10M player, the coach is worth it. Not to mention all of the routine stuff they do (the 9-5 work). So... they could be at fault but they probably never are.

Leafs are better!

Would prefer Vogelbach cut

Even more interesting: - They can apparently coach MLB pitchers well - They can't develop minor league pitchers ???? - They can apparently develop decent minor league hitters (see DS, Clement, everyone in Buffalo...) - They can't coach MLB hitters at all ???????

You're overthinking it for sure You could do basic $/WAR math and the 1.1 combined fWAR so far from Turner and IKF would carry the day and make the offseason adds looks better than what most teams did. That's like 5.5 fWAR pro-rated, for $20.5M. Will they end up being worth that much? I guess probably not, but the returns so far are very good; you can't reasonably find bang for your buck like that in free agency. fWAR so far from FA bats: Ohtani 1.7 Hernandez 0.8 Pederson 0.8 Gurriel 0.6 Turner 0.6 IKF 0.5 Caratini 0.4 Chapman 0.3 Hoskins 0.2 Soler 0.1 Bellinger 0.1 Hader 0.1 Candlebro 0.0 Santana 0.0 JDM 0.0 KK 0.0 Whit 0.0 Gallo 0.0 Cutch -0.1 Heyward -0.1 Anderson -0.2 Blackmon -0.3 Garver -0.3 Frazier -0.4 Renfroe -0.7 This is how the top 25 FA bats by AAV have performed so far Early returns say the Chad Ross Atkins stared at this pile of dogshit and somehow went 2/3 and signed 2 of the best 6 options on the board. Wow!

Then call him the GM and demote Ross to a new, more girly title Ross would probably be into it Secretary of the 40 man roster

I don't know why this is so hard for (some of) you to understand. Did they do a bad job this offseason, in a nutshell? No. Was their situation this offseason self-inflicted? Yes. Develop a few more quality players and you don't have to go desperately hunting for offense or defense or relievers when the f***ing weather changes.

Yes. And not even in the states; I bet every one of these junior data/science people with the Blue Jays will inevitably just think they are drastically underpaid in ~5 years and want to jump ship from just looking at certain other jobs within Toronto. MSc in Math or CompSci/AI with several years quality working experience is six figures anywhere competitive, maybe $59k with the Blue Jays lol

You can find the entry level and early career Baseball Research Analysts on their website and google them. See their resumes. It's kind of fun. They seem pretty smart. Some examples: Claire Wilson, 2022 Notre Dame grad. Interned for the Cubs in school. Marlins after school. Emma Ritcey, MSc in AI, Comp Sci major, former OUA basketball for Queens. Peter L'Oiseau, Masters in Math a few years ago... you can find his Fangraphs articles from a few years ago about things like aging curves for statcast metrics But yeah at the top end, who knows. Maybe for the Director level positions on the Analytics side, Toronto isn't a desirable spot.

He is just bad everywhere for some combination of bad footwork or throwing. They've tried him at every position, 2B 3B CF... Sort of seems like the 1B thing is just short term since the Brewers depth chart is weakest there. They've been giving Jake Bauers 1B reps and Gary Sanchez DH reps. Definitely see them just throwing him in LF when it opens up. god damn the Brewers developmental system has become elite

well it ain't working replace Click!

Dignity not required

Also, in many ways Shapiro and Atkins are just figureheads Look at how many people are in the modern front office https://www.mlb.com/bluejays/team/front-office-directory If the Jays main problem is modern game prep, then couldn't the bad egg reasonably be below Atkins? Maybe it's Click himself, the "Vice President, Baseball Strategy" Or if the main problem is on the developmental side, it's probably some very complex cluster of sub-optimal employees? Poor performance from the Director or Assistant Director(s) of Player Development? Who f***ing knows!

I don't know. Ask Shapiro why he loves Atkins. Just saying what I think is more likely. The pros for Atkins are sort of obvious. He's generally good at certain things, and probably a middle of the pack GM at worst. Gets value in trades more often than not, makes good free agent signings more often than not. Avoided extending the trap prospect Vladimir Guerrero Jr. (saved the franchise let's be honest). Almost everything they do at the MLB level in terms of transactions is fine, sensible, and good (despite a lot of belly-aching around here about "not fixing the offense" in one offseason or whatever). I am envisioning a co-GM scenario where Atkins still has most of the day to day control over the MLB roster. He is the one on the phone, making trades, negotiating with free agents, talking extensions. And then his co-GM is the one who focuses more on drafting and development and more on the statistical side of things - how to do advanced game prep better, communicate information to players and coaches better, and so forth (the stuff Atkins may be bad at).

True for some players but not all of them. I see a lot of guys putting their A swing on pitchers pitches, earlier in counts. So just misidentifying the pitch or being too aggressive leading to weak contact. To the bolded point, it definitely does seem like there is some form of collective confusion. Something like, the game-planning meetings are generally confusing the players are not getting the right (effective) information across. Whatever they have been doing with or for Springer, Vlad, Bo, Kirk.... they need to just stop doing that immediately.

I think Ray is right. If the current structure at the top is something like: - Atkins makes 95% of baseball decisions - Shapiro has final say on 5% of baseball decisions (major moves, systemic changes, etc.) Then perhaps they need to change that to something more like that: - Shapiro makes 0% of baseball decisions. His baseball role is strictly budgetary liaison with ownership and being that kind of thread between ownership and the team. - They identify what Atkins is good at and narrow his role. He can keep his title but he now effectively makes 50% of baseball decisions. - Someone like Click, or Mr. Outside Hire with a track record of being good at Atkins' weaknesses, makes 50% of baseball decisions. I think ^ this type of reorg is more likely to happen than a house cleaning. Maybe? Coaching staff, different story. I personally don't even think John Schneider is a bad manager at all but the hitting side of the team... something must be rotten there. I don't think it's Hunter Mense. I have read some interviews from him and seen his social media and while he does not seem extremely progressive, he's not a dinosaur. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/torontos-hunter-mense-on-developing-good-swing-decisions/ I think the Blue Jays are too hesitant at firing org people. Need to more aggressively hunt internal developmental talent.

Lolllllll legendary

Justin Turner has a great wRC+ and IKF has been good value so far You can't even say they should have done something else specifically in the offseason. I mean you can, it just doesn't make much sense when you think about it. Even the Varsho trade looks okay at the moment. No, the issues are far deeper. Coaching, player development, high level game preparation...

You guys realize it probably takes a fat multi year deal to sign Teoscar, right? He's not picking the Jays over the Dodgers at even money

I feel like this discussion is great for my brand so I am HERE for it

Only thing we can hope for is something like this: Clean house this month

They can't possibly run this team back in 2025. Just retool for 2026 at this point. Trade everyone who is only controllable through 2025 and might have any value. Salary dump everyone that can be dumped including Vlad. Consider trading Gausman and Varsho as well even though they are under control in 2026.

Honestly a really impressive inning by the Jays there Top of the order, third time through, and they did manage to make the pitcher throw more than 10 pitches Bravo