Simon Li Jays Centre Contributor Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 Although he walked in the tying run in the bottom of the eighth inning, Jeff Hoffman retained his manager's trust and came back to pitch the bottom of the ninth against the bottom of the Dodgers' order. That did not go to plan, as the closer who had a 5.8% walk rate before Sunday's game walked three out of the four batters he faced in the ninth. In came Mason Fluharty, who before this game had a 5.23 ERA and a 4.20 FIP. The 23-year-old lefty rookie started off strongly for the Jays, but after a rough June, he was optioned back down to Triple-A Buffalo before just recently returning to the major league roster. Fluharty does have better peripherals than his results might suggest, with above-average strikeout and whiff rates, and he's been able to limit hard contact. He runs into issues here and there with his control, but his xERA is only 3.30 compared to his current ERA over 5.00. However, Fluharty was mostly used in low-leverage spots before Sunday. This can be illustrated by a metric called Leverage Index (LI), which was created by statistician Tom Tango. According to MLB.com, LI measures "the importance of a particular event by quantifying the extent to which win probability could change on said event, with 1.0 representing a neutral situation." Fluharty’s average Leverage Index prior to his save attempt against the Dodgers was 0.67. In contrast, when Fluharty came into the game after Hoffman loaded the bases, the LI was thirteen times higher, at a staggering 8.91. This was a do-or-die moment, the difference between the Dodgers sweeping the Jays and putting a sour note on the end of a road trip, or the Jays miraculously holding on in a nail-biter. Pitch #1 - Fluharty faces Shohei Ohtani, the reigning NL MVP, and throws a sweeper on the outside corner for a called strike. 0-1. Pitch #2 - Fluharty throws an 89.3-mph cutter up and in to Ohtani, who turns away from the pitch, swinging the bat in an effort to dodge the ball. Although it appeared that he swung, the third base umpire called it not a swing. Funnily enough, according to Tom Tango, if MLB implemented the 45-degree plane automated checked swing system they've been testing in the minors, this would in fact have been a checked swing. The count evens up at 1-1. Pitch #3 - Fluharty throws a pitch at the bottom of the zone, and Ohtani is completely fooled, as the 82.6-mph sweeper dives off the plate with 45 inches of drop and 15 inches of sweep, getting him to chase. It’s 1-2 in Fluharty’s favour. Pitch #4 - Fluharty tries another sweeper even further off the plate, but it goes in the dirt, and Ohtani easily takes it and evens the count up at 2-2. Pitch #5 - Fluharty goes back inside to Ohtani after two straight breaking balls, and Ohtani is forced to foul it off, as the pitch was about to clip the inside corner. The count remains 2-2. Pitch #6 - Fluharty then tries to elevate the cutter slightly higher, trying to get him to chase up in the zone, but Ohtani takes that pitch as well. The Jays' dugout is not happy that it wasn’t called a strike, despite being out of the zone. The count is now full. Pitch #7 - The next pitch is another sweeper reminiscent of pitch number two, but this time it’s in the zone. Ohtani is able to get to it and foul it off, and Fluharty has to go again. Pitch #8 - Fluharty then tries to throw the sweeper on the inside part of the plate, but it backs up a bit on him, and Ohtani takes a big hack that sends the pitch foul. The count remains 3-2. Pitch #9 - With the game on the line, Fluharty once again throws a sweeper, this time below the zone, and Ohtani chases. After throwing two straight sweepers in the zone that resulted in foul-offs, the rookie challenged the MVP on a pitch that could have tied the game up for the Dodgers. Instead, he recorded one of the biggest outs of the season for the Jays. Mookie Betts then comes up to the dish, and although the 2018 AL MVP has been struggling at the plate relative to his norm, the righty still is an above-average hitter against lefty pitching, and Fluharty has struggled more against right-handed hitters so far this season. Pitch #10 - Fluharty goes to the cutter, as sweepers typically have wide platoon splits, but he throws it way out of the zone for ball one. Pitch #11 - He then throws another cutter, but this time paints it on the outside corner to even the count up. Pitch #12 - This time, it’s a cutter on the inside corner, and Betts swings at it, resulting in a soft grounder to Addison Barger. The third baseman forces out Alex Call at second to win the game and finish off Mason Fluharty's very first MLB save. The last pitcher to retire two former MVPs back-to-back with the bases loaded en route to a save was Hall of Famer Trevor Hoffman in 2002 (OptaStats). This just goes to show the depth of this Jays team, as a relatively unknown rookie reliever could come up and perform in a big moment when key members of the bullpen were hurt or under-performing. From top to bottom, the majority of the Jays' 40-man roster has stepped up in a major way in 2025. View full article
Grant77 Old-Timey Member Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 Watching Fluharty strike out that piece of human garbage was definitely one of the most thrilling moments of the season. It has all of the elements you want. An important game, an unsung hero leading the good guys to victory, and a universally hated villain getting what he deserves. Spanky__99 1
John_Havok Old-Timey Member Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 1 hour ago, Grant77 said: Watching Fluharty strike out that piece of human garbage was definitely one of the most thrilling moments of the season. It has all of the elements you want. An important game, an unsung hero leading the good guys to victory, and a universally hated villain getting what he deserves. Universally hated villian? This isn't even remotely true lol. Never change Grant. Never ever change. Spanky__99 1
Laika Community Moderator Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 The stuff about the automated check swing systems is interesting. So, if "crossing the plate" is the reference then 95%+ of possible check swings would be called a strike. So this is perhaps too aggressive of a reference. Do we want even more strikeouts? And it is possible to cross the front of the plate without really committing to the pitch. The automated system in the minors uses a 45 degree angle from the front of home plate as the line in the sand. This is used because it is easier for the 1B and 3B umps to visualize to make the call (basically if the bat goes past pointing straight at the ump, it's a swing). Other degrees like 30 or 20 would be too hard to visualize. 45 degrees is also something most people understand intuitively. So the automated check swing systems use 45 degrees. And the Ohtani swing would not have got there. 37 degrees. Wild. Spanky__99 and Simon Li 2
Simon Li Jays Centre Contributor Posted August 12, 2025 Author Posted August 12, 2025 1 minute ago, Laika said: The stuff about the automated check swing systems is interesting. So, if "crossing the plate" is the reference then 95%+ of possible check swings would be called a strike. So this is perhaps too aggressive of a reference. Do we want even more strikeouts? And it is possible to cross the front of the plate without really committing to the pitch. The automated system in the minors uses a 45 degree angle from the front of home plate as the line in the sand. This is used because it is easier for the 1B and 3B umps to visualize to make the call (basically if the bat goes past pointing straight at the ump, it's a swing). Other degrees like 30 or 20 would be too hard to visualize. 45 degrees is also something most people understand intuitively. So the automated check swing systems use 45 degrees. And the Ohtani swing would not have got there. 37 degrees. Wild. I wonder if the implementation of the automated system is a way to give some more of an advantage to the offense now that pitching has improved so much. Really interested to see who it progresses as more testing is done throughout the minors. Spanky__99 1
John_Havok Old-Timey Member Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 18 minutes ago, Simon Li said: I wonder if the implementation of the automated system is a way to give some more of an advantage to the offense now that pitching has improved so much. Really interested to see who it progresses as more testing is done throughout the minors. I just wonder how they set the bar at 45 degrees. My guess would be they took a sh*tload of video where checkswings happened, did some measurements on the majority of them that were called swings based on the umps feel and then roughly averaged where all those bats were... and came up with a number? Seems like 45 degrees is a bit steep though, like... i can't look at that check by Ohtani and not feel like he went.
Grant77 Old-Timey Member Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 35 minutes ago, John_Havok said: Universally hated villian? This isn't even remotely true lol. Never change Grant. Never ever change. Which active player is more hated? Especially in Toronto. I can really only speak from personal experience, but the people in my life generally believe the original statements about the gambling scandal, which means that he sent his friend to jail for his own crimes. That's utterly despicable in my view. I'll grant you Altuve for cheating and perhaps Machado for his attitude, but he's right near the top. Most of the game's stars are free of controversy and loved. Outside of steroid guys, I can't remember ever seeing this level of hate for face of the league type guys like Jeter and Ichiro. Look at the comments on Jomboy's tweet about him. There's a level of vitriol that is extremely high, even for that platform.
John_Havok Old-Timey Member Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 1 minute ago, Grant77 said: Which active player is more hated? Especially in Toronto. I can really only speak from personal experience, but the people in my life generally believe the original statements about the gambling scandal, which means that he sent his friend to jail for his own crimes. That's utterly despicable in my view. I'll grant you Altuve for cheating and perhaps Machado for his attitude, but he's right near the top. Most of the game's stars are free of controversy and loved. Outside of steroid guys, I can't remember ever seeing this level of hate for face of the league type guys like Jeter and Ichiro. Look at the comments on Jomboy's tweet about him. There's a level of vitriol that is extremely high, even for that platform. And you do realize that most people that live on the internet love to latch onto allegations and just believe them 100% without actually reading anything other than headlines... not to mention the bots that are just used to create fake comments on everything. I'm sure there are people that hate Ohtani. I acknowledge the possibility that he did what he was accused of. I'm just not gonna choose to hate based on allegations. But you forgot Trevor Bauer. He's probably the most hated guy right now. There's a guy who I can completely understand people hating, even though legally he may not have done anything wrong.
Laika Community Moderator Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 15 minutes ago, John_Havok said: I just wonder how they set the bar at 45 degrees. My guess would be they took a sh*tload of video where checkswings happened, did some measurements on the majority of them that were called swings based on the umps feel and then roughly averaged where all those bats were... and came up with a number? Seems like 45 degrees is a bit steep though, like... i can't look at that check by Ohtani and not feel like he went. Tango basically explains it through the links. They married some analysis of where the line is "as presently called" with what seems easy for people to understand and umpire on the field. There is no actual definition of a swing in the rulebook I guess? Breaking the plane of home plate is just same random reference? Simon Li and Spanky__99 2
Brownie19 Old-Timey Member Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 I honestly don't know anyone who hates Ohtani except you Grant. I'm on a baseball diamond 6+ nights a week, and have lots of baseball chat groups. I think it's fair to question and wonder what really happened with the betting, but I haven't seen or heard enough to draw any conclusions - certainly not with enough evidence that I'd completely change my opinion of him and now hate him. For all you know, his interpreter agreed to take the fall and will be paid millions for doing it. If he voluntarily did that - why would I care? Or you know, maybe he as guilty in the first place? I guess if Ohtani was guilty and he used his money to ensure his interpreter was found guilty to clear his name and the interpreter is getting nothing out of all of this, then yeah - that's bad, but I haven't seen much to prove me that's what happened. Spanky__99 1
Grant77 Old-Timey Member Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 12 minutes ago, John_Havok said: And you do realize that most people that live on the internet love to latch onto allegations and just believe them 100% without actually reading anything other than headlines... not to mention the bots that are just used to create fake comments on everything. I'm sure there are people that hate Ohtani. I acknowledge the possibility that he did what he was accused of. I'm just not gonna choose to hate based on allegations. But you forgot Trevor Bauer. He's probably the most hated guy right now. There's a guy who I can completely understand people hating, even though legally he may not have done anything wrong. Bauer isn't an active player so I didn't forget him, but I agree that he is hated. Alex Rodriguez too, both are real *******s and cheated. I'm not stating that he is guilty in this instance and have carefully worded my posts to reflect that viewpoint. The hate on X goes beyond what you would expect, had this been Mike Trout or something. I expect that you would see a lot of people defending him. In this case, any reasonable or critical thinker will, at the very least, have strong suspicions about the gambling scandal and will no longer give him the benefit of the doubt for these allegations, like they would for another player.
Grant77 Old-Timey Member Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 8 minutes ago, Brownie19 said: I honestly don't know anyone who hates Ohtani except you Grant. I'm on a baseball diamond 6+ nights a week, and have lots of baseball chat groups. I can't name a baseball fan that I know who; 1. Believes the revised story that came out after the original facts and statements from the Dodgers and Ohtani's spokesperson. 2. Thinks that sending your friend to jail to cover for your crimes is an acceptable thing to do. 3. Thinks that a second alleged crime within a short time period doesn't merit some level of suspicion. If your friends all believe those things then that's fine, but I don't like players to commit crimes and that's a very common view amongst baseball fans that aren't your friends
John_Havok Old-Timey Member Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 3 minutes ago, Grant77 said: Bauer isn't an active player so I didn't forget him, but I agree that he is hated. Alex Rodriguez too, both are real *******s and cheated. I'm not stating that he is guilty in this instance and have carefully worded my posts to reflect that viewpoint. The hate on X goes beyond what you would expect, had this been Mike Trout or something. I expect that you would see a lot of people defending him. In this case, any reasonable or critical thinker will, at the very least, have strong suspicions about the gambling scandal and will no longer give him the benefit of the doubt for these allegations, like they would for another player. Of course people would have suspicions. But, it's also entirely possible the interpreter did everything himself and Ohtani was just way too trusting. People tend to expect others to act exactly as they would act in similar situations. Most people I've talked to in person about the Ohtani thing don't even believe he would give his interpreter access to his bank accounts, because ... they would never give anyone access to theirs so therefore he must be guilty. But, they also have no idea what it's like to be a guy like Ohtani, with more money than a "normal" person can even fathom, having it come from dozens of sources, going out to dozens more, and have no idea of the relationship Ohtani and his interpreter had. Some people are incredibly trusting. Point is, suspicions are just suspcions. People as a whole need to worry less about suspicions, and more about facts. Brownie19 1
Grant77 Old-Timey Member Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 23 minutes ago, John_Havok said: Of course people would have suspicions. But, it's also entirely possible the interpreter did everything himself and Ohtani was just way too trusting. People tend to expect others to act exactly as they would act in similar situations. Most people I've talked to in person about the Ohtani thing don't even believe he would give his interpreter access to his bank accounts, because ... they would never give anyone access to theirs so therefore he must be guilty. But, they also have no idea what it's like to be a guy like Ohtani, with more money than a "normal" person can even fathom, having it come from dozens of sources, going out to dozens more, and have no idea of the relationship Ohtani and his interpreter had. Some people are incredibly trusting. Point is, suspicions are just suspcions. People as a whole need to worry less about suspicions, and more about facts. If we ignored the first 48 hours of the gambling scandal, then I would be in full agreement with you. To tell you the truth, I'm the type of overly trusting person that be susceptible to what you describe. The fact is, Ohtani was quoted by his own employee and his own team, as saying that he knew about the gambling and the payments. I'll never believe that there were multiple miscommunications and mistakes from a crisis management expert and other people that deal with PR on a daily basis. There's no other proof or anything that either of us can have. I just don't believe that, period. You're obviously willing to write it off as a series of enormous mistakes and I'll accept that view because I respect your opinion, but I see another incident in the very next season as a small amount of confirmation for my view.
John_Havok Old-Timey Member Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 5 minutes ago, Grant77 said: If we ignored the first 48 hours of the gambling scandal, then I would be in full agreement with you. The fact is, Ohtani was quoted by his own employee and his own team, as saying that he knew about the gambling and the payments. I'll never believe that there were multiple miscommunications and mistakes from a crisis management expert and other people that deal with PR on a daily basis. There's no other proof or anything that either of us can have. I just don't believe that, period. That's fine. Knowing his interpreter was gambling ... and him gambling himself are two widely different things. It's far more plausible that the situation is exactly what the interpreter said first, that he was gambling on non-baseball stuff, sucked at it, he told Ohtani, and Ohtani tried to help the guy out by paying it off. That's probably far closer to the truth than anything that came out days later after the spin machines kicked in. So, if that's closer to the truth, how is Ohtani the bad guy?? Stupid... yes. Some evil mastermind who chucked his buddy in jail to cover his own gambling problems..? Unlikely. (but still within the realm of possibility) Brownie19 and Spanky__99 2
Brownie19 Old-Timey Member Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 11 minutes ago, John_Havok said: That's fine. Knowing his interpreter was gambling ... and him gambling himself are two widely different things. It's far more plausible that the situation is exactly what the interpreter said first, that he was gambling on non-baseball stuff, sucked at it, he told Ohtani, and Ohtani tried to help the guy out by paying it off. That's probably far closer to the truth than anything that came out days later after the spin machines kicked in. So, if that's closer to the truth, how is Ohtani the bad guy?? Stupid... yes. Some evil mastermind who chucked his buddy in jail to cover his own gambling problems..? Unlikely. That was generally my take as well. Ohtani may also have been unaware of all the money transfers and such. And I mean - wasn't there a legal trail for the interpreter? Shouldn't we assume the facts were provided and a judge/jury listened to both sides and made a decision? Personally - I'm just not sure it's conclusive enough to form a firm opinion and declare the guy is this massive villain who should be universally hated. I'm going to move on...
Nexii Verified Member Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 My gut tells me the truth is somewhere in between. Ohtani knew about Ippei, but not the depth of how degenerate the gambling was. You can't spend that much time with someone and not know something. I think that's the part that people aren't buying. At the end of the day though you're not responsible for others crimes, unless there's strong evidence of being an accomplice.
Grant77 Old-Timey Member Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 2 hours ago, John_Havok said: That's fine. Knowing his interpreter was gambling ... and him gambling himself are two widely different things. It's far more plausible that the situation is exactly what the interpreter said first, that he was gambling on non-baseball stuff, sucked at it, he told Ohtani, and Ohtani tried to help the guy out by paying it off. That's probably far closer to the truth than anything that came out days later after the spin machines kicked in. So, if that's closer to the truth, how is Ohtani the bad guy?? Stupid... yes. Some evil mastermind who chucked his buddy in jail to cover his own gambling problems..? Unlikely. (but still within the realm of possibility) Just one clarification. I don't believe the interpreter said anything at first. Ohtani himself was quoted via his crisis management spokesperson and the Dodgers saying that he knew about the gambling and the loans. After a few days, they then tried to redact those statements and had Mizuhara himself state that Ohtani didn't know anything. I was unconvinced by that change in the narrative. I more or less agree with your general point, I just wanted to clear that up. I don't think he's an evil mastermind, but funding sports gambling is still troubling. The players know that it's against the rules in this day and age. A guy like Ernie Clement would absolutely be suspended if he lent money to his friend for sports gambling. The cover up/PR campaign (which we all agree seems likely to differing extents) also rubs me the wrong way as a fan. I feel justified in not liking him and I think all of the fans I met during the KC series feel the same way. Fandom is always a subjective thing, so I accept everyone's opinions.
Grant77 Old-Timey Member Posted August 12, 2025 Posted August 12, 2025 2 hours ago, Nexii said: My gut tells me the truth is somewhere in between. Ohtani knew about Ippei, but not the depth of how degenerate the gambling was. You can't spend that much time with someone and not know something. I think that's the part that people aren't buying. At the end of the day though you're not responsible for others crimes, unless there's strong evidence of being an accomplice. Ohtani himself said via his spokesperson that he knew about the gambling and the debt, which he paid off in 500k increments because it was the maximum he could do. You don't need to guess about that part. Also, I do believe that knowingly funding sports gambling is a 'crime' in baseball terms. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Taking steroids isn't necessarily a crime either, but it's problematic in a baseball context. In the one instance where I believe a a player who unintentionally took steroids (Chris Davis), he was still suspended.
Mike LeSage Jays Centre Contributor Posted August 13, 2025 Posted August 13, 2025 Beautifully written piece - and what a showing by Fluharty. I get the methodology, and (theoretically) understand why you'd take 45 degrees as the angle, but I'm not sure I want to live in a world where that 2nd pitch to Shohei is a checked swing. 😁 Simon Li and Spanky__99 1 1
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