Blue Jays (Lauer) vs Guardians (Allen): 6/24/25, 6:40pm

[Jays24]

Straw has made a lot of plays look easy today that not all CFs could make

[Jays24]

I have NEVER seen Kirk move that fast in my life lol

[Omar]

Just now, Jays24 said:

I have NEVER seen Kirk move that fast in my life lol

He is like an alligator; very dangerous over short distances.

[Jays24]

Time to bring in Hoffman, Schneider... you know you want to lol

[Perfect Game]

5 minutes ago, John_Havok said:

Both are true to a point. Both Berrios and Bassitt are top 20 in MLB in IP, and if Gausman had the same # of starts he likely would be too.

He probably has gone to Green too much in higher leverage situations.

Aside from that. The overuse of the pen is largely due to the lack of a 4 and 5 SP.

 

How does the lack of SP's 4 & 5 justify bringing in YRod with a five run lead? There's seriously no need for him to pitch in this scenario.

[Omar]

JAYS WIN!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[glory]

Absolutely insane bringing in Yariel in this game. Scherzer could conceivably be out of the game in the 1st inning tomorrow night after his thumb explodes, but Schneider thought using 5 relievers in a game the Jays were comfortably leading was the right move. Who is the long man tomorrow? Turnbull? Someone needs to be sent down for Scherzer, which I guess will be Schultz now.

 

[BB17]

10 minutes ago, John_Havok said:

Both are true to a point. Both Berrios and Bassitt are top 20 in MLB in IP, and if Gausman had the same # of starts he likely would be too.

He probably has gone to Green too much in higher leverage situations.

Aside from that. The overuse of the pen is largely due to the lack of a 4 and 5 SP.

 

Just look at this game if you want evidence of a badly managed pen lol. Not leaving Fisher in.. then bringing Green in with guys on base.. then bringing in Rodriguez in a 5 run game..

That’s 3 terrible moves in one game alone.

[neverbeenhere]

Fisher threw only 7 pitches

[Stangstag]

39 minutes ago, glory said:

Absolutely insane bringing in Yariel in this game. Scherzer could conceivably be out of the game in the 1st inning tomorrow night after his thumb explodes, but Schneider thought using 5 relievers in a game the Jays were comfortably leading was the right move. Who is the long man tomorrow? Turnbull? Someone needs to be sent down for Scherzer, which I guess will be Schultz now.

 

I didn’t even consider this, but yeah you’re right. Might need 7 innings from the pen tomorrow lol

[Stangstag]

39 minutes ago, BB17 said:

Just look at this game if you want evidence of a badly managed pen lol. Not leaving Fisher in.. then bringing Green in with guys on base.. then bringing in Rodriguez in a 5 run game..

That’s 3 terrible moves in one game alone.

Yet the front office will just see this as a W and not consider the ripple effect of how it can affect the rest of the games this week.

[Masterbather]

I really was not that troubled by the bullpen management today, I understood the logic  he was trying to utilize, I might have swapped Schultz and Green, that's about the only difference.

When the game became 6-1 there was no point in trying to force Fisher. He's become reliable and you might need him again tomorrow in higher leverage. He tried Fluharty in what was at that point a medium to low leverage situation to get him on track but he struggled. At that point you're trying to steal the last two outs without having to use a valuable arm figuring the worst case scenario is Green bombs and you still got the lead at least. It's a gamble. Green then bombed.

Then you get the slam that brought the situation back to low leverage, you go to Schultz probably hoping he rides out the rest of the game but he threw a lot of pitches and was mediocre in one inning. 

So you decide you don't want to f*** around anymore and you put in a leverage arm for one inning to finish the game.

All your leverage arms are still available for tomorrow. The only real cost of the game was 11 pitches by Rodriguez that you ideally would have liked to avoid. It's not disastrous.

[Laika]

100% agree with masterbather 

You guys are nuts with the criticism of the pen management. You chirp Schneider for taxing the pen too much then chirp him one sentence later for not leaving Fisher in longer.

Green's existence on the team is on Atkins 

Yariel Rodriguez is decent but he's not some total weapon that needs to be saved only for extreme leverage spots 

All things considered, the Jays won a game started by Eric freaking Lauer and they only had to use 31 pitches total from any of their good relievers

[mphenhef]

10 hours ago, Perfect Game said:

How does the lack of SP's 4 & 5 justify bringing in YRod with a five run lead? There's seriously no need for him to pitch in this scenario.

They manage scared and it bites them in the ass so frequently and burns arms when it is not needed.

 

IE, this game, they were scared to let Fluharty try to get out of his jam so inexplicably bring in the BP warmup machine to give up a three run homer.  They were scared to give Schultz a second inning with a 5 run lead so they burn a Yariel appearance.

 

They are too afraid to give Fisher the leverage he so clearly deserves too.

[mphenhef]

22 minutes ago, Laika said:

 

You guys are nuts with the criticism of the pen management. You chirp Schneider for taxing the pen too much then chirp him one sentence later for not leaving Fisher in longer.

 

Fisher only threw 7 pitches and generally speaking appearances are the tax for RPs.  Leaving him in might have saved appearances from 2 other relievers.  Not a big deal in a one off, but it does and has added up over the course of the season.

[BB17]

3 hours ago, Masterbather said:

I really was not that troubled by the bullpen management today, I understood the logic  he was trying to utilize, I might have swapped Schultz and Green, that's about the only difference.

When the game became 6-1 there was no point in trying to force Fisher. He's become reliable and you might need him again tomorrow in higher leverage. He tried Fluharty in what was at that point a medium to low leverage situation to get him on track but he struggled. At that point you're trying to steal the last two outs without having to use a valuable arm figuring the worst case scenario is Green bombs and you still got the lead at least. It's a gamble. Green then bombed.

Then you get the slam that brought the situation back to low leverage, you go to Schultz probably hoping he rides out the rest of the game but he threw a lot of pitches and was mediocre in one inning. 

So you decide you don't want to f*** around anymore and you put in a leverage arm for one inning to finish the game.

All your leverage arms are still available for tomorrow. The only real cost of the game was 11 pitches by Rodriguez that you ideally would have liked to avoid. It's not disastrous.

The thing you are neglecting is it’s better to leave one guy in for 15-20 pitches than to have 3 guys throw 7 pitches. Just because  guy throws 5-7 pitches in one outing doesn’t mean it isn’t taxing and he won’t be fatigued in the future. 
Js also has Little warming up a while which no one even mentioned so that’s another leverage arm that got hot in the pen, who himself has been battling it lately.

I agree Rodriguez isn’t some world beater but you have a 5 run lead and Sandlin was available. If you aren’t going to bring him in the game to a situation like that then what the f*** is he on the team for?