GDT - May 12 1:37 ET - (3/3) Twins @ Jays

[BigCecil]

One day the FO shift in focus for the team in '23 was a mistake and the next it was a no brainer. LOL.

 

Teo also could have been extended. Macko is a lottery ticket. AB kid.

 

KK overperformed in '23 have an immaculate resurrection nobody could have predicted.

 

Trade Moreno but dont extend Jano. Makes perfect sense right?

[BTS]

I think it's overall a sound organizational philosophy to avoid expensive multi-year FA contracts to good but not great corner outfielders. There's always someone available who can hit and stand in LF. It would have cost the team nothing to bring in Tommy Pham at the deadline or this offseason. Tyler O'Neill was basically free. Mark Canha was basically free. Max Kepler could have probably been acquired for very little. Richie Palacios cost a 35-year old reliever etc... I'm guessing the Dodgers get a 3-4 win season from Teo and then aren't the team to give him a 3-4 year deal in the offseason.

[John_Havok]

I think it's overall a sound organizational philosophy to avoid expensive multi-year FA contracts to good but not great corner outfielders. There's always someone available who can hit and stand in LF. It would have cost the team nothing to bring in Tommy Pham at the deadline or this offseason. Tyler O'Neill was basically free. Mark Canha was basically free. Max Kepler could have probably been acquired for very little. Richie Palacios cost a 35-year old reliever etc... I'm guessing the Dodgers get a 3-4 win season from Teo and then aren't the team to give him a 3-4 year deal in the offseason.

 

You're right about the Dodgers and Teo. Just a great situation for him all around to be hitting in a lineup with 3 future hall of Famers and he can just relax and not feel any pressure.

[BigCecil]

I'm sorry I got myself into this shitpile of brain worms inferences discussion.

 

Bottom line is drafting and development has been our biggest challenge leading where we are as a team. The rest of it is mostly noise at this point. Agree with that.

[Orgfiller]

Stuff+ be damned, Manoah actually got pretty decent results on his pitches, 15 whiffs overall on 78 pitches will certainly play. Importantly, every pitch of his got whiffs, fastball which he threw the most got 6 on 31 pitches/17 swings, changeup 4 out of 19 thrown/17 swung at, slider 3 out of 8/14, sinker 2 out of 7/14. Lefty heavy lineup so he relied on his change a lot more, and there was enough of a pitch mix to try out different "weapons" for different hitters. If we compare him to his counterpart Bailey Ober who on paper was more dominant (10 K), he had the same amount of whiffs in 26 more pitches.

[Stangstag]

You're right about the Dodgers and Teo. Just a great situation for him all around to be hitting in a lineup with 3 future hall of Famers and he can just relax and not feel any pressure.

 

Potentially 4 HoFs if you include Will Smith

[Laika]

How much more does Ohtani have to do to print his HOF ticket? Probably quite a bit actually. I think he either needs to get back on the mound and have a few more elite two way seasons, or he needs to be an elite hitter for like 5 more years, maybe more.

[BigCecil]

It’s the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of WAR. I think Ohtani will be in with this season and another elite performance one way or both ways. If it was the Hall of WAR we would be talking more about Russel Martin being in over Sal Perez.

[L54]

I don’t think Ohtani really has to do much more than he already has to make the HoF. The point of the hall should be to capture the game era by era or whatever, not just WAR accumulators

[Laika]

Of course but if he died today is he really in there? It becomes a Koufax situation.

 

Addie Ross is actually the prime example of "short career" hall of famer. He had 9 full season then died of illness. 34 WAR. 160-97 with a 1.89 ERA. 1902-1910. But only got in I think because of certain circumstances.

 

Koufax is the more commonly thought of short career hall of famer. 54.5 WAR, and something like 10 seasons cobbled together across 12 years played.

 

Ohtani in MLB is: 33.9 career WAR, 3054 career PA (call it 5 seasons worth of hitting) and 86 starts (call is 3 seasons of starts).

 

I think he might be a bit short. Until you start to could brownie points for being a unicorn. Or Japanese league stats.

[L54]

You have to give consideration to the fact that he is a unicorn and that he did them both at an elite level. He’s on an island all by himself and that should be captured by the Hall of Fame

[glory]

Ohtani is getting in the HOF regardless, IMO. His prime was literally unmatched by any baseball player that ever lived, especially considering the context of how baseball has changed since Ruth's time. Even if he doesn't rack up the counting stats, he's a lock.

[jaysblue]

Swear to god some of you guys have brain worms

 

Ross could have given Teoscar away and the trade would have still made sense because he spent the money better in 2023

 

Teoscar was a free agent for 2024 anyway so where does this impulse come from to look at him and then look at Swanson? I guess it's basic human nature but it's an obvious fallacy.

 

Also, Macko continues to chug innings and put up respectable numbers in AA. He might be viable SP depth in 2025.

 

"Brain worms"? This coming from the biggest flip flopper on the board lol.

 

Never said it was a bad deal and nothing against Swanson at all. Just wasn't crazy about it at the time.

 

Macko is still a lottery ticket. Hope he could be a valuable arm, but not a guarantee.

 

Like BigCecil said, maybe if Teo stuck around he could have been extended to a short 2 year deal or something. As well, Jays could have used Teo's bat in 2023 and this season. But yeah a lot of what if's and noise which not going to get into.

 

Will also add, yes drafting and development has been a major issue with this front office. Should be able to produce arms like Swanson every so often and shouldn't have to trade assets for them in the offseason.

[jaysblue]

I think it's overall a sound organizational philosophy to avoid expensive multi-year FA contracts to good but not great corner outfielders. There's always someone available who can hit and stand in LF. It would have cost the team nothing to bring in Tommy Pham at the deadline or this offseason. Tyler O'Neill was basically free. Mark Canha was basically free. Max Kepler could have probably been acquired for very little. Richie Palacios cost a 35-year old reliever etc... I'm guessing the Dodgers get a 3-4 win season from Teo and then aren't the team to give him a 3-4 year deal in the offseason.

 

I agree with everything you said in this post.

 

Like you said, there is always someone available who can hit and stand in LF, but why haven't Atkins and the Jays FO brought in that bat dating back from last season, when offense and power have been a major issue with this lineup and still is?

[jaysblue]

lol...

 

A typical Spanky response. No substance at all.

[jaysblue]

deal was trash at the time and Swanson was decent then - medium leverage reliever

 

He's not an elite lights-out BP arm agreed. He had one great season in 2022 and wasn't even used that often in high leverage situations.

 

Not knocking Swanson again. He's still a solid arm to have in the pen as an option for the 7th/8th innings. Shouldn't have to trade assets for those types of BP arms in the offseason lol. Should be able to develop those arms or sign an arm who could provide similar value in the offseason.

[Stangstag]

I agree with everything you said in this post.

 

Like you said, there is always someone available who can hit and stand in LF, but why haven't Atkins and the Jays FO brought in that bat dating back from last season, when offense and power have been a major issue with this lineup and still is?

 

Do you have a problem with Davis Schneider

[Spanky99]

A typical Spanky response. No substance at all.

 

I'm laughing at a typically stupid post from yourself, jaysblue. The substance is in your 8.1 inning pitch sample, while whiffing on everything else? lmfao... is that specific enough, moron?

 

I mean, 3.7 >> 1.8

Edited May 14, 2024 by Spanky99