Around Baseball 2024

[Terminator]

Came here to post this. Does anyone think more of Joe Kelly than Joe Kelly? Dude had an ERA close to 5 in the regular season and threw 0 playoff innings and is talking all kinds of s***.

 

Yeah I'm really over his schtick. Dude is a very underachieving and mid reliever but he talks more trash than anyone.

[Brownie19]

Was Joe Kelly hurt? or left off the playoff roster due to his s***** results?

 

I see he's now a FA. He'd be a nice target if you could get him for peanuts.

[Stangstag]

It's hilarious to see all these reports and now players speaking out about how awful the Yankees defense was and how they knew it would bite them in the ass at some point and how it gave LA such an advantage. Yet when our own team (built on a great offense/poor defense) fails in 2021 and 2022 - our fans s*** on the GM for trying to change the makeup of the team to address the s***** defense - like it was the WRONG thing to do.

 

The plan itself, to sacrificing some offense for defense, was a good idea. When you combined it with the offensive collapse of Vlad (2023), Kirk, Springer, etc. - it made it look like a massive over correct that failed miserably.

 

That said - The Yanks were a few games away from winning it all - so in our SSS playoffs - even the teams with the massive hole in the armor can still win it all.

 

Fair enough, but I will maintain that having an elite offense with bad D is a much more enjoyable product than crap O with elite D.

 

The Yankees had neither. 2 elite guys in Judge and Soto sure, but a bunch of wildcards for the other 7.

 

And I think the Jays definitely still have a "fundamentals" issue similar to the Yanks with bad base-running choices and defensive brainfarts. Also fairly weak D at a very important position (SS)

[jaysblue]

It's hilarious to see all these reports and now players speaking out about how awful the Yankees defense was and how they knew it would bite them in the ass at some point and how it gave LA such an advantage. Yet when our own team (built on a great offense/poor defense) fails in 2021 and 2022 - our fans s*** on the GM for trying to change the makeup of the team to address the s***** defense - like it was the WRONG thing to do.

 

The plan itself, to sacrificing some offense for defense, was a good idea. When you combined it with the offensive collapse of Vlad (2023), Kirk, Springer, etc. - it made it look like a massive over correct that failed miserably.

 

That said - The Yanks were a few games away from winning it all - so in our SSS playoffs - even the teams with the massive hole in the armor can still win it all.

 

Most rational posters on this board weren't s***ing on Atkins for trying to change the makeup of the team to address the s***** defense. After witnessing that mess in Game 2 against the Mariners in person, I wanted the Jays to make upgrades defensively. I think some, including myself, criticized him for not taking a balanced enough approach when it came to the lineup. Like yes improve the defense, but that doesn't mean you sacrifice offense completely. And to further that point, a lot of criticism on Atkins was for failing to address the lack of offense in 2023, when it was clear that it was an issue.

 

Yes the offensive collapse of Vladdy, Kirk and Springer didn't help, along with Varsho disappointing with the bat in 2023. They still had an entire offseason to add bats with extra pop in left field or DH, but they failed to do so. Hopefully Atkins and the FO have learned from their mistakes. Hopefully we can see a more balanced team in 2025.

[jaysblue]

I'd be shocked if he's not dealt

 

Blue Jays should trade for him!

[Brownie19]

Fair enough, but I will maintain that having an elite offense with bad D is a much more enjoyable product than crap O with elite D.

 

The Yankees had neither. 2 elite guys in Judge and Soto sure, but a bunch of wildcards for the other 7.

 

And I think the Jays definitely still have a "fundamentals" issue similar to the Yanks with bad base-running choices and defensive brainfarts. Also fairly weak D at a very important position (SS)

 

I was just reading how Torres had a 124 wRC+ in the 2nd half after making some mechanical adjustments. He was a pretty legit offensive option for them down the stretch and thru the playoffs. I saw that while reading a projection that he's going to get 5 years $90M this offseason, which made me vomit in my mouth a bit.....but I guess if true, after a 120 wRC+ season in 2023 - he might actually be rather sought after this offseason. The Yanks were 3rd in baseball in runs scored and added Jazz down the stretch. They were a legit offense.

[jaysblue]

Yeah don't forget about Jazz. They have him under control until 2027 as well.

 

Torres started hitting better in the second half. Stanton always is a power threat and we saw him get hot in the Postseason. Yankees offense wasn't that bad, but yeah 1 through 9 their lineup wasn't as scary as in years past.

[Brownie19]

Maybe the likeliest outcome is the Yankees and Cole just figure out a new term entirely

 

He opted out of 4/$144

Yankees have the option of doing 5/$180

 

Maybe they go to him and say "hey we will give you the $180 but we want to do it over 7 years"

 

Might not make much difference to Cole. Odds are he is cooked or just a problematic injury prone dude at 39 anyway.

 

Yanks have agreed to add the 1 year $36M and void his opt out...

[Barrelsandbombs]

Full QO List

 

[Brownie19]

Here's the full list...

 

Juan Soto, New York Yankees

Corbin Burnes, Baltimore

Alex Bregman, Houston

Max Fried, Atlanta

Willy Adames, Milwaukee

Pete Alonso, New York Mets

Anthony Santander, Baltimore

Teoscar Hernández, Los Angeles Dodgers

Nick Pivetta, Boston

Christian Walker, Arizona

Sean Manaea, New York Mets

Luis Severino, New York Mets

Nick Martinez, Cincinnati

 

 

There are definitely some middling talent being offered a QO this year...

[Laika]

Yanks have agreed to add the 1 year $36M and void his opt out...

 

Idiots.

[Laika]

wait a minute

 

Jeff Passan

@JeffPassan

Right-hander Gerrit Cole is remaining with the New York Yankees on the four-year, $144 million deal that he had opted out of, sources told ESPN. Discussions on a potential contract extension will continue. Essentially, it’s the same as if Cole did not opt out.

[Terminator]

wait a minute

 

Jeff Passan

@JeffPassan

Right-hander Gerrit Cole is remaining with the New York Yankees on the four-year, $144 million deal that he had opted out of, sources told ESPN. Discussions on a potential contract extension will continue. Essentially, it’s the same as if Cole did not opt out.

 

Sounds like they are going to do your idea where they tack on some of that 36 mil but spread it out over a a couple of extra years. Probably ends up with the 7 years, 180 mil or something like that.

[Terminator]

Here's the full list...

 

Juan Soto, New York Yankees

Corbin Burnes, Baltimore

Alex Bregman, Houston

Max Fried, Atlanta

Willy Adames, Milwaukee

Pete Alonso, New York Mets

Anthony Santander, Baltimore

Teoscar Hernández, Los Angeles Dodgers

Nick Pivetta, Boston

Christian Walker, Arizona

Sean Manaea, New York Mets

Luis Severino, New York Mets

Nick Martinez, Cincinnati

 

 

There are definitely some middling talent being offered a QO this year...

 

No Tyler O'Neil....

[glory]

Here's the full list...

 

Juan Soto, New York Yankees

Corbin Burnes, Baltimore

Alex Bregman, Houston

Max Fried, Atlanta

Willy Adames, Milwaukee

Pete Alonso, New York Mets

Anthony Santander, Baltimore

Teoscar Hernández, Los Angeles Dodgers

Nick Pivetta, Boston

Christian Walker, Arizona

Sean Manaea, New York Mets

Luis Severino, New York Mets

Nick Martinez, Cincinnati

 

There are definitely some middling talent being offered a QO this year...

 

I'm sure the Jays aren't avoiding qualified FA's, but Santander and Walker are a lot less desirable now with the QO attached. I don't think the Jays were going to be in on Teo anyway, but good for him to get that extra bit of security. He earned it.

[Spanky__99]

Here's the full list...

 

Juan Soto, New York Yankees

Corbin Burnes, Baltimore

Alex Bregman, Houston

Max Fried, Atlanta

Willy Adames, Milwaukee

Pete Alonso, New York Mets

Anthony Santander, Baltimore

Teoscar Hernández, Los Angeles Dodgers

Nick Pivetta, Boston

Christian Walker, Arizona

Sean Manaea, New York Mets

Luis Severino, New York Mets

Nick Martinez, Cincinnati

 

 

There are definitely some middling talent being offered a QO this year...

 

Yeah, Santander, Pivetta, Manaea, Severino,and Martinez are questionable, some of these arms should take the QO.

[Jays24]

Joe Kelly firing some nasty shots at the Yankees lol

 

 

The whole AL sucked ass this year. There were like 5/6 national league teams that would be favored to beat every AL team in the playoffs imo.

[Jays24]

Are twitter embeds hidden for everyone else, or is it just me?

 

Depends on your browser. I have to disable my protection to view the embedded tweets. Annoying lol

[Jays24]

Full QO List

 

 

Not happy with the list. A lot of folks I wanted on this team potentially made the list that I wasn't sure would. Now they've become slightly less desirable.

[Brownie19]

Not happy with the list. A lot of folks I wanted on this team potentially made the list that I wasn't sure would. Now they've become slightly less desirable.

 

You mean the good free agents were offered qualifying offers? shocking!

[Spanky__99]

You mean the good free agents were offered qualifying offers? shocking!

 

lol...

[G-Snarls]

Here's the full list...

 

Juan Soto, New York Yankees

Corbin Burnes, Baltimore

Alex Bregman, Houston

Max Fried, Atlanta

Willy Adames, Milwaukee

Pete Alonso, New York Mets

Anthony Santander, Baltimore

Teoscar Hernández, Los Angeles Dodgers

Nick Pivetta, Boston

Christian Walker, Arizona

Sean Manaea, New York Mets

Luis Severino, New York Mets

Nick Martinez, Cincinnati

 

 

There are definitely some middling talent being offered a QO this year...

 

Pivetta should accept it immediately

[jaysblue]

Haha why was Nick Martinez offered a QO?

[Brownie19]

Haha why was Nick Martinez offered a QO?

 

I mean, he's probably better than Pivetta and he's definitely better than Severino...

 

It's like the Reds knew you were pushing for the Jays to target him and said FU jaysblue - he's ours.

[Laika]

Nicky Martinez out-WARd Michael Wacha who just extended for 3/$51

 

But NM likely just takes the QO still

[hanton]

why s*** on other teams anyway? is there some history here? maybe just foucs on the 1.4 whip that you put up this season

[Spanky__99]

Nicky Martinez out-WARd Michael Wacha who just extended for 3/$51

 

But NM likely just takes the QO still

 

Martinez, Severino and Pivetta should take the QO, the comp is going to hurt these dudes in FA.

[Orgfiller]

Nicky Martinez out-WARd Michael Wacha who just extended for 3/$51

 

But NM likely just takes the QO still

 

Yeah he probably would've matched or surpassed Wacha's deal, but very unlikely he would've gotten a higher AAV than the QO. At 34, this was likely his last chance at a decent sized multi-year deal, so with the QO attached he pretty much has to take it or it could backfire. Of course, if he proves he's a legit starter and repeats his 2024, he'll still be in line for a decent payday.

 

Pivetta is an interesting one, he's been an exactly average starter his whole career with very enticing K numbers, but he just gives up so many bombs that he simply can't be trusted, and doesn't chew through innings. I could see a team looking at him and saying "I can work with this", but I feel like he'd be smart to take the QO as well.

[Laika]

Yeah he probably would've matched or surpassed Wacha's deal, but very unlikely he would've gotten a higher AAV than the QO. At 34, this was likely his last chance at a decent sized multi-year deal, so with the QO attached he pretty much has to take it or it could backfire. Of course, if he proves he's a legit starter and repeats his 2024, he'll still be in line for a decent payday.

 

Pivetta is an interesting one, he's been an exactly average starter his whole career with very enticing K numbers, but he just gives up so many bombs that he simply can't be trusted, and doesn't chew through innings. I could see a team looking at him and saying "I can work with this", but I feel like he'd be smart to take the QO as well.

 

RE Pivetta

 

I wonder how much his career has been tarnished by bad ball parks

[Orgfiller]

RE Pivetta

 

I wonder how much his career has been tarnished by bad ball parks

 

That's an interesting thought. His xERA has been < 4.00 in 3 out of the last 4 seasons. Maybe a team like Seattle (won't do it as they have the pitching depth already), the Dodgers, the f***ing Orioles and their abomination, or the newly pitcher friendly ballpark owners the Toronto Blue Jays, can bring the nice Canadian kid home.

 

But with a QO attached, how much are any of these teams actually willing to offer him? 3/45?