Around Baseball 2024

[Omar]

Those are interesting numbers. What’s the definition of not panning out

 

Not making a MLB roster for pitchers and failure to start for position player. Approximately 10% of 50 FV prospects make it to MLB. At 40Fv the drop off is huge. That is why despite the players acquired at the deadline the Jays farm ranking is still bottom third in baseball. Adding 40fv prospects is not considered progress unless you like org fillers

[wilko]

Stop me if you've heard this one before...

 

Buxton to the IL.

 

Hip injury, no damage seen but going to the 10-Day IL

 

 

Over/under if he makes it to 100 games?

[Jimcanuck]

Colt Keith is about 3 years younger than Horwitz et al

 

Age/level no longer matters once a player hits MLB? Weird.

[John_Havok]

Yelich done for the season with back surgery. Sucks to be Milwaukee...

[Jimcanuck]

Trey Sweeney called up by the Tiggers. End of the line for Javier Baez?

 

Holy f*** Baez has a 39 wRC+ and 3 years left on the deal lol

[Stangstag]

Stop me if you've heard this one before...

 

Buxton to the IL.

 

Hip injury, no damage seen but going to the 10-Day IL

 

Im shocked

[Spanky99]

Colt Keith is about 3 years younger than Horwitz et al

 

Age/level no longer matters once a player hits MLB? Weird.

 

You're correct Jim, don't sweat it.

[Spanky99]

Yelich done for the season with back surgery. Sucks to be Milwaukee...

 

Oof...

[Laika]

Colt Keith is about 3 years younger than Horwitz et al

 

Age/level no longer matters once a player hits MLB? Weird.

 

Steamer etc. all know how old he is bro

 

You can tell a lot from 400+ MLB PA

 

Colt Keith is a decent player and would be a nice piece to have but under the hood he doesn't look like anything special. His barrel and maxEV rates are kind of in that slop where some good hitters exist (like Bregman, Semien) but lots of guys with no punch live (Benintendi, Josh Rojas, Leody Taveras, Gavin Lux, Jose Cabellero).

His BB/K ratio is middling.

Power is middling.

Defense isn't an asset.

 

So it's a good (not very good) ability to make contact coupled with average power and easily replaceable defensive utility. That's the package!

 

You can very easily compare that total package to Horwitz and Clement. They are older, but Clement has a way better contact ability and Horwitz has a better eye. Clement also has more on the D side.

 

This happens all the time where certain types of young guys look like great prospects in MiLB but they aren't as good as expected in MLB. At least Keith is still very likely a solid MLB player. Alek Thomas' first 400 MLB PA at age 22 showed exactly who he was, in hindsight.

[jaysblue]

Geez, it's not worth discussing other teams when comparing them to the Blue Jays on here.

 

Just stating the obvious facts that Detroit has better younger core in place moving forward over the next 5 years than Toronto, while also acknowledging that Toronto though has the advantage of ownership willing to spend money on FAs or extensions. Some posters on here still take the blue pill maintaining their blissful ignorance when it comes to this organization and front office.

 

I can't believe names like Horwitz and Clement are being used in the same discussion with some of the Tigers top prospects. They're solid players, but it's not even close lol.

[Brownie19]

Tigers have a good farm system and some exciting players on the current roster and on their way. One potential issue has been their ability to develop. They've had two #1 overall picks bust and several others who never panned out (Faedo, Lange, Cameron, etc.). Greene is great, Skubel is great, Carpenter looks good, Olson looks good. The rest is TBD in my opinion. Time will tell if this next wave of prospects reach their potential or not.

[jaysblue]

The grass is always greener syndrome.

 

Just having constructive discussion on another MLB organization. There is nothing wrong in stating that the Tigers over the next 5 years have a better young core in place than the Blue Jays which is obviously true lol. Like I asked Laika, can you name me an elite player similar to Riley Greene who is under club control until 2029 on the Blue Jays?

 

Also, I acknowledged that the Jays ownership over the next 5 years has the edge because they are willing to spend money on FA's and adding to the payroll if need be.

[Laika]

Geez, it's not worth discussing other teams when comparing them to the Blue Jays on here.

 

Just stating the obvious facts that Detroit has better younger core in place moving forward over the next 5 years than Toronto, while also acknowledging that Toronto though has the advantage of ownership willing to spend money on FAs or extensions.

 

That was not the initial question though. Yes, Detroit has a better set of young players/prospects right now. But connorp said:

 

"No trolling, but who has the better 5 year outlook, including FA spending room and such. All things considered

Detroit or Toronto? I feel it’s objectively Detroit for sure."

 

The only reason to pick Detroit seems to be if you have a prospect fetish. The entire discussion is about how much it matters that Detroit has Riley Greene and a "better farm system".

 

I can't believe names like Horwitz and Clement are being used in the same discussion with some of the Tigers top prospects. They're solid players, but it's not even close lol.

 

Someone needs to look at the data I guess. I don't really even know what else to say. Colt Keith has 400+ MLB PA and Clement and Horwitz are outperforming him this year, so reality says you are a stooge.

 

Chad Ross Atkins can find guys like Colt Keith for free. I don't make the facts I just state them.

[jaysblue]

Tigers have a good farm system and some exciting players on the current roster and on their way. One potential issue has been their ability to develop. They've had two #1 overall picks bust and several others who never panned out (Faedo, Lange, Cameron, etc.). Greene is great, Skubel is great, Carpenter looks good, Olson looks good. The rest is TBD in my opinion. Time will tell if this next wave of prospects reach their potential or not.

 

Yup, a lot depends on what guys like Max Clark and Jackson Jobe become. They need some of their top prospects to come up and make an impact over the next year or so, in order to add to their current MLB core of Greene, Skubal, Olson and Carpenter. If they don't pan out and flop, they're going to be stuck in limbo as a .500 team.

 

As well, will be interesting to see what direction they take with Skubal: do they re-sign him to an extension, trade him or let him walk as a FA?

[Jimcanuck]

Steamer etc. all know how old he is bro

 

You can tell a lot from 400+ MLB PA

 

Colt Keith is a decent player and would be a nice piece to have but under the hood he doesn't look like anything special. His barrel and maxEV rates are kind of in that slop where some good hitters exist (like Bregman, Semien) but lots of guys with no punch live (Benintendi, Josh Rojas, Leody Taveras, Gavin Lux, Jose Cabellero).

His BB/K ratio is middling.

Power is middling.

Defense isn't an asset.

 

So it's a good (not very good) ability to make contact coupled with average power and easily replaceable defensive utility. That's the package!

 

You can very easily compare that total package to Horwitz and Clement. They are older, but Clement has a way better contact ability and Horwitz has a better eye. Clement also has more on the D side.

 

This happens all the time where certain types of young guys look like great prospects in MiLB but they aren't as good as expected in MLB. At least Keith is still very likely a solid MLB player. Alek Thomas' first 400 MLB PA at age 22 showed exactly who he was, in hindsight.

 

Every MLB GM would laugh at lumping Keith in with the Jays AAAA guys.

[Laika]

Every MLB GM would laugh at lumping Keith in with the Jays AAAA guys.

 

wet noodle argument

[Laika]

It's not MY FAULT that Colt Keith's comps to those guys. It's COLT KEITH's fault!!!!

 

And the point is not that I would take them over Keith. It's just to illustrate that Colt Keith is nothing special.

[metafour]

 

And the point is not that I would take them over Keith. It's just to illustrate that Colt Keith is nothing special.

 

Will Wagner has played in like 3 games and he has already hit a ball as hard as Colt Keith has all season long. What's funny is that Wagner is supposed to have poor raw power, and Keith is supposed to be Hercules.

 

But hey, Keith made someone's Top 25 one time. He is 23 years old, which means that in 3 years he might hit as well as Horwitz is hitting today.

[Laika]

Even Riley Greene is maybe not even that special, lol.

 

jesus christ some of you guys will just deepthroat random players on other teams if it makes the Jays somehow look weak in comparison. Or if you own them in fantasy, I guess.

 

Greene has a career 27.2% K rate, is a bad defender, and presently looks like a 3.5 WAR player or so if he can stay healthy. That's not a STAR. That's not a franchise player. That's a second fiddle stick on a good team.

 

Dude is getting out WAR'd by Daulton Varsho presently and for the foreseeable future lmfao.

[jaysblue]

Even Riley Greene is maybe not even that special, lol.

 

jesus christ some of you guys will just deepthroat random players on other teams if it makes the Jays somehow look weak in comparison. Or if you own them in fantasy, I guess.

 

Greene has a career 27.2% K rate, is a bad defender, and presently looks like a 3.5 WAR player or so if he can stay healthy. That's not a STAR. That's not a franchise player. That's a second fiddle stick on a good team.

 

Dude is getting out WAR'd by Daulton Varsho presently and for the foreseeable future lmfao.

 

LMAO

 

If Riley Greene was on the Blue Jays, you would be buttering him up like no tomorrow!

[Laika]

that's not true

 

i don't even like the blue jays

[jaysblue]

That was not the initial question though. Yes, Detroit has a better set of young players/prospects right now. But connorp said:

 

"No trolling, but who has the better 5 year outlook, including FA spending room and such. All things considered

Detroit or Toronto? I feel it’s objectively Detroit for sure."

 

The only reason to pick Detroit seems to be if you have a prospect fetish. The entire discussion is about how much it matters that Detroit has Riley Greene and a "better farm system".

 

 

 

Someone needs to look at the data I guess. I don't really even know what else to say. Colt Keith has 400+ MLB PA and Clement and Horwitz are outperforming him this year, so reality says you are a stooge.

 

Chad Ross Atkins can find guys like Colt Keith for free. I don't make the facts I just state them.

 

Yes and I said that lol.

 

Detroit has a better set of young players and prospects locked up over the next 5 years. Blue Jays are an aging and expensive team. Not too difficult to comprehend.

 

In terms of ownership spending, edge to the Blue Jays for sure, which I stated. A lot depends on what the Blue Jays do this offseason. If they re-sign Vladdy, definitely a better outlook over the next five years. If they let Vladdy walk and fail to sign anyone of his caliber, the next five years here look bleak given the weak farm system. In terms of long term sustainability, will be tough to spend their way building a perennial contender. Even if they re-sign Vladdy, this team needs a No 1/2 starter (which will cost over $100M easily if they try to sign Burner or Snell), another two bats (will cost money), and bullpen help. That doesn't even include a 3B as I'm assuming if they spend money on the above, it's more efficient to run with Clement at 3B to spend elsewhere. A lot of holes to patch up for 2025 if they want to return to being a contending team.

[The Cats Ass]

Even Riley Greene is maybe not even that special, lol.

 

jesus christ some of you guys will just deepthroat random players on other teams if it makes the Jays somehow look weak in comparison. Or if you own them in fantasy, I guess.

 

Greene has a career 27.2% K rate, is a bad defender, and presently looks like a 3.5 WAR player or so if he can stay healthy. That's not a STAR. That's not a franchise player. That's a second fiddle stick on a good team.

 

Dude is getting out WAR'd by Daulton Varsho presently and for the foreseeable future lmfao.

 

Is Clark even that much better than Nimmala?

 

Clark in A-ball as a 19 year old has 134 wRC+. Could be considered his 2nd taste of the level, he played a little bit there last year and put up a 73 wRC+. Nimmala is running with a 154 wRC+ in his 2nd go around at A level at 18 years. His 2nd taste of the level just happens to be during the same year as his 1st.

[Jimcanuck]

Is Clark even that much better than Nimmala?

 

Clark in A-ball as a 19 year old has 134 wRC+. Could be considered his 2nd taste of the level, he played a little bit there last year and put up a 73 wRC+. Nimmala is running with a 154 wRC+ in his 2nd go around at A level at 18 years. His 2nd taste of the level just happens to be during the same year as his 1st.

 

They aren't far apart. Clark has an edge at this point. Could flip by early next season.

[Orgfiller]

Difference has been heÂ’s not good anymore. At least Lewis comes back and hits

 

This is Buxton's second best hitting season lol. Your ability to be consistently confidently incorrect is incredible.

[connorp]

wet noodle argument

 

Wet noodle truth *

Maybe you’re a bit bored with Board Dean role and you’re becoming a contrarian

[connorp]

This is Buxton's second best hitting season lol. Your ability to be consistently confidently incorrect is incredible.

 

I actually didn’t know that. The Jays sucking ass has made me pay attention less.

 

I would’ve thought it was safe to say he was cooked. I never claim to always be right with predictions. No one is

[Brownie19]

Geez, it's not worth discussing other teams when comparing them to the Blue Jays on here.

 

Just stating the obvious facts that Detroit has better younger core in place moving forward over the next 5 years than Toronto, while also acknowledging that Toronto though has the advantage of ownership willing to spend money on FAs or extensions. Some posters on here still take the blue pill maintaining their blissful ignorance when it comes to this organization and front office.

 

I can't believe names like Horwitz and Clement are being used in the same discussion with some of the Tigers top prospects. They're solid players, but it's not even close lol.

 

I don't understand this. You seem to want to have a discussion on this matter...and are literally in the middle of that discussion - yet you seem discouraged. Why is that? Is it because most people aren't agreeing with you? I think some people are just suggesting that while Detroit does have a good young core and some up and coming prospects - is it really "that" much better than what the Jays have...and now there's a discussion about that, with people using facts and information to support their opinions.

 

This is what a message board is supposed to look like. Why are you frustrated and/or upset with this? If you disagree, then collect your own facts and stats and rebut what they are saying. Saying "if Riley Greene was on the Blue Jays, you would be buttering him up like no tomorrow" isn't overly useful or convincing. Hope that helps.

[wilko]

I actually didn’t know that. The Jays sucking ass has made me pay attention less.

 

I would’ve thought it was safe to say he was cooked. I never claim to always be right with predictions. No one is

 

Do some research before making yourself look like an idiot.

[max silver]

Is Clark even that much better than Nimmala?

 

Clark in A-ball as a 19 year old has 134 wRC+. Could be considered his 2nd taste of the level, he played a little bit there last year and put up a 73 wRC+. Nimmala is running with a 154 wRC+ in his 2nd go around at A level at 18 years. His 2nd taste of the level just happens to be during the same year as his 1st.

 

If Nimmala can get the strikeout issues under control the sky is the limit offensively. I had a look at what Orelvis accomplished at a similar age in A ball and they both produced very similar numbers, with Nimmala getting the edge power output wise with a .348 iso vs .293 for Orelvis. Orelvis had an edge in k rate at 26.1% vs 32.1% k rate for Nimmala in his second A ball visit.