Around Baseball 2024

[jaysblue]

Kikuchi > Civale. Plus I read Civale didn't want to play for Tampa so he's also whiny bitch.

 

Would you want to play at the Trop? Haha.

[Spanky__99]

Civale has a higher career WAR than Kikuchi and is also 4-years-younger with another year left of control. They have been pretty much similar throughout their careers.

 

I agree, if I'm a GM looking to upgrade my rotation for a Postseason run, right now I would take Kikuchi given his higher K/9% and more success this season thus far. Other teams may have different opinions. Maybe the Brewers feel like with a change of scenary, Civale turns things around and returns to his 2023 form. They probably value the low salary and extra year of control as well more than some other Postseason clubs would. Maybe some teams are concerned about Kikuchi being consistent and returning to being a jekyll and hyde type arm down the stretch and in a short Postseason series. It's possible. I'm sure some clubs still view Kikuchi as a No 4/5 with mid-rotation upside. As a rental, he's not bringing much more in return than what the Brewers gave up for Civale.

 

Kooch >>> Civale, I don't care what the Brewers are thinking or doing, for this season's run and PS I'm sure GM's would rather the better depth in Kooch than Civale, of course the return would be similar because Civale has that extra year.

[Laika]

kikuchi stuff+ 111 (career 106)

 

civale sutff+ 100 (career 97)

 

one of them has a good fastball and the other does not. it's actually sort of silly to even compare them tbh, it's like a different market.

 

civale is a guy with command and offspeed pitches, he's a more questionable play against top lineups and he also doesn't have an innings eating track record

 

most good teams wouldn't even need a Civale but there are probably some good teams that would love to get Kikuchi as their SP3 or SP4, it would be an upgrade

 

Guardians for example

 

Bibee - 3.47 ERA

Allen - 5.75 ERA

McKenzie - 5.11 ERA (demoted)

Carrasco - 5.21 ERA

Lively - 3.03 ERA but c'mon it's Ben Lively

Bieber - dead

Curry - 5.74 ERA bad

 

Kikuchi is their SP2

[jaysblue]

kikuchi stuff+ 111 (career 106)

 

civale sutff+ 100 (career 97)

 

one of them has a good fastball and the other does not. it's actually sort of silly to even compare them tbh, it's like a different market.

 

civale is a guy with command and offspeed pitches, he's a more questionable play against top lineups and he also doesn't have an innings eating track record

 

most good teams wouldn't even need a Civale but there are probably some good teams that would love to get Kikuchi as their SP3 or SP4, it would be an upgrade

 

Guardians for example

 

Bibee - 3.47 ERA

Allen - 5.75 ERA

McKenzie - 5.11 ERA (demoted)

Carrasco - 5.21 ERA

Lively - 3.03 ERA but c'mon it's Ben Lively

Bieber - dead

Curry - 5.74 ERA bad

 

Kikuchi is their SP2

 

It's not silly to compare them at all.

 

Career wise, both have produced similar results to date. Civale has a career 7.5 fWAR and 4.11 FIP whereas Kikuchi has a career 6.1 fWAR with a 4.67 FIP. Neither have been anything special. They're both No. 4 starters with #3 upside.

 

In terms of trade value, Jays likely get a similar prospect for Kikuchi given that he is only a two month rental and since both have had similar careers to date.

 

Kikuchi is having the better season so far, so yeah he likely helps a Postseason team more unless Civale returns to his 2023 form in the second half. Also, the higher K/9% and being a southpaw are both advantages Kikuchi has as well.

 

Just saying Jays likely get a similar prospect for Kikuchi as what the Rays got for Civale. Unless Kikuchi was having a Cy Young caliber season, Jays aren't getting anything special for Kikuchi other than a lottery ticket.

[Laika]

I don't really agree. Since Kikuchi is much better than Civale right now, I think Toronto will get a notably better prospect for him. I guess we will find out.

 

Other than Crochet, what other SP will be on the block?

[MikeM3]

Kikuchi can theoretically work out of the pen for a contender after helping them get there because he misses bats.

 

Theoretically

[John_Havok]

I don't really agree. Since Kikuchi is much better than Civale right now, I think Toronto will get a notably better prospect for him. I guess we will find out.

 

Other than Crochet, what other SP will be on the block?

 

Trevor Williams maybe? White Sox might also try to get what they can for Fedde while that iron is hot.

 

Detroit will probably be shopping Flaherty

[Spanky__99]

Kikuchi can theoretically work out of the pen for a contender after helping them get there because he misses bats.

 

Theoretically

 

Agreed. Or even in a long role.

[jaysblue]

I don't really agree. Since Kikuchi is much better than Civale right now, I think Toronto will get a notably better prospect for him. I guess we will find out.

 

Other than Crochet, what other SP will be on the block?

 

From looking at the standings currently:

 

Jack Flaherty

Erick Fedde

Trevor Williams

Tyler Anderson

Jameson Taillon

Nathan Eovaldi

Andrew Heaney

Max Scherzer

Jon Gray

Jose Quintana

Luis Severino

Sean Manaea

 

If Rangers don't pull back into the race, I could see them moving some of their vets. Mets sit at 42-42 right now, but I could see them selling some of those rotation pieces if they fall out of it by the end of the month.

 

Jack Flaherty looks like he will be the top arm available. He's having a really darn good year. Fedde also seems like he will be moved and has been really good (2.4 fWAR).

[Laika]

From looking at the standings currently:

 

Jack Flaherty

Erick Fedde

Trevor Williams

Tyler Anderson

Jameson Taillon

Nathan Eovaldi

Andrew Heaney

Max Scherzer

Jon Gray

Jose Quintana

Luis Severino

Sean Manaea

 

If Rangers don't pull back into the race, I could see them moving some of their vets. Mets sit at 42-42 right now, but I could see them selling some of those rotation pieces if they fall out of it by the end of the month.

 

Jack Flaherty looks like he will be the top arm available. He's having a really darn good year. Fedde also seems like he will be moved and has been really good (2.4 fWAR).

 

Hard to see the Rangers selling even if they are far back

Mets are right in it they shouldn't sell

Fedde is more like Civale

 

I guess it's Crochet, Flaherty who are better than Kikuchi

 

Ask for Crochet will be huge though

[jaysblue]

Kikuchi can theoretically work out of the pen for a contender after helping them get there because he misses bats.

 

Theoretically

 

Yeah his strong K/9 and him being a southpaw definitely are an advantage for a Postseason team if they decided to use him out of pen.

[jaysblue]

Hard to see the Rangers selling even if they are far back

Mets are right in it they shouldn't sell

Fedde is more like Civale

 

I guess it's Crochet, Flaherty who are better than Kikuchi

 

Ask for Crochet will be huge though

 

Will be interesting to see the return Crochet gets. It's going to be crazy expensive. What a season he's been having.

 

I don't see the Rangers going scorched earth, but they could probably move their arms who are on expiring contracts (Heaney & Scherzer). Eovaldi has a player option worth $20M if he eclipses 300 innings combined between the 23-24 seasons. Gray is still under control for 2025.

 

We'll see how the Mets play in July. They likely decide to buy or sell right till the last minute.

[hanton]

Grisham, not sure if he has a history of being lazy but this is inexcusable

 

 

[Abomination]

You have to think that might get Grisham DFA'd. He's probably been teetering on that border for a while now anyway.

[Key22]

Can the Jays keep Kikuchi offer him arbitration and collect a draft pick? They would need at least that calibre of player in a trade.

 

Some teams just try to make the playoffs - and some teams believe they have a chance to win the WS - I think the market would be bigger for Kikuchi than Civale because Kikuchi has had success against better line-ups - a WS contender can envision Kikuchi starting against the Yankees for example.

 

In the end, you just have to not get it wrong - anyone can be traded it's always what you're getting back.

[jaysblue]

Also, don't forget Zach Eflin as a trade candidate. Rays likely move him as well.

 

A lot of arms are available, so Jays will have competition.

[glory]

Kikuchi should have a decent trade market but hard to tell what an impending FA will get in a trade. Really depends on how desperate the trading team is. Kooch prior to 2023 has a very mediocre track record, and he’s in his mid 30’s. I think if the Jays keep him and qualify him, then there’s a good chance he just accepts it even with Boras as his agent but depends on how his final numbers look.

[BigCecil]

Kikuchi should have a decent trade market but hard to tell what an impending FA will get in a trade. Really depends on how desperate the trading team is. Kooch prior to 2023 has a very mediocre track record, and he’s in his mid 30’s. I think if the Jays keep him and qualify him, then there’s a good chance he just accepts it even with Boras as his agent but depends on how his final numbers look.

 

Move him. Look at what the CHISOX for for Giolito rental in '23. Dare to dream we could pull similar off for Kooch. LAA are gods gift to trade partners. We just need a desperate team. In that sense the 3rd wildcard is helpful.

 

Kooch is a pretty valuable starter - long man - pen option for playoff run, with a 3.60 FIP and ability to K.

[wilko]

Grisham, not sure if he has a history of being lazy but this is inexcusable

 

 

 

The guy's lucky to be in the MLB. You'd think he'd be playing his ass off in the outfield.

[Krylian]

Grisham, not sure if he has a history of being lazy but this is inexcusable

 

 

 

Future Blue Jay?

[glory]

Move him. Look at what the CHISOX for for Giolito rental in '23. Dare to dream we could pull similar off for Kooch. LAA are gods gift to trade partners. We just need a desperate team. In that sense the 3rd wildcard is helpful.

 

Kooch is a pretty valuable starter - long man - pen option for playoff run, with a 3.60 FIP and ability to K.

 

The Angels were not only desperate but also delusional, so I wouldn't expect a team in 2024 to act like that for 2 months of Kikuchi, but hopefully there is one.

[The Cats Ass]

The Angels were not only desperate but also delusional, so I wouldn't expect a team in 2024 to act like that for 2 months of Kikuchi, but hopefully there is one.

 

It's possible he's the best rental available at the deadline. I was looking at The Athletic's trade target tiered rankings. They have Kikuchi #2 for SPs behind Crochet.

[The Cats Ass]

Hitters

Stars

1. Luis Robert Jr., CF, White Sox

2. Bo Bichette, SS, Blue Jays

3. Vladimir Guerrero Jr., 1B, Blue Jays

4. Jazz Chisholm Jr., CF, Marlins

5. *Alex Bregman, 3B, Astros

6. *Pete Alonso, 1B, Mets

7. *J.D. Martinez, DH, Mets

8. *Christian Walker, 1B, Diamondbacks

9. *Danny Jansen, C, Blue Jays

 

Good regulars

1. Randy Arozarena, COF, Rays

2. Taylor Ward, COF, Angels

3. Brent Rooker, DH, A’s

4. Luis Rengifo, IF, Angels

5. Andrew Vaughn, 1B, White Sox

6. Lane Thomas, COF, Nationals

8. Yandy Díaz, 1B, Rays

9. *Elias Díaz, C, Rockies

10. Joc Pederson, COF, Diamondbacks

11. *Jesse Winker, COF, Nationals

12. *Josh Bell, 1B, Marlins

13. *Michael Conforto, COF, Giants

14. *Justin Turner, 1B, Blue Jays

15. Starling Marte, COF, Mets

16. *Mark Canha, COF, Tigers

17. Eloy Jiménez, COF, White Sox

 

Role players

1. *Harrison Bader, CF, Mets

2. *Kevin Kiermaier, CF, Blue Jays

3. Miguel Andujar, COF, A’s

4. *Tommy Pham, COF, White Sox

5. *Randal Grichuk, COF, Diamondbacks

6. *Amed Rosario, SS, Rays

7. Patrick Wisdom, 3B, Cubs

8. *Paul DeJong, SS, White Sox

9. *Kevin Pillar, CF, Angels

10. Isiah Kiner-Falefa, SS, Blue Jays

11. Wilmer Flores, 1B, Giants

12. *Tim Anderson, SS, Marlins

13. Eugenio Suárez, 3B, Diamondbacks

14. *Brandon Drury, IF, Angels

15. Jeff McNeil, 2B, Mets

16. Javier Báez, SS, Tigers

17. Andrew Benintendi, COF, White Sox

18. George Springer, COF, Blue Jays

 

Starting pitchers

Front-line starters

1. Garrett Crochet, LHP, White Sox

2. *Yusei Kikuchi, LHP, Blue Jays

3. *Jack Flaherty, RHP, Tigers

4. *Max Scherzer, RHP, Rangers

5. *Justin Verlander, RHP, Astros (IL)

6. Blake Snell, LHP, Giants ( IL)

7. *Luis Severino, RHP, Mets

8. *Nathan Eovaldi, RHP, Rangers

9. *Frankie Montas, RHP, Reds

 

Mid-rotation starters

1. Jordan Montgomery, LHP, Diamondbacks

2. Erick Fedde, RHP, White Sox

3. Tyler Anderson, LHP, Angels

4. Cal Quantrill, RHP, Rockies

5. *Alex Cobb, RHP, Giants (IL)

6. *Andrew Heaney, LHP, Rangers

7. *Michael Lorenzen, RHP, Rangers

8. Paul Blackburn, RHP, A’s (IL)

9. Griffin Canning, RHP, Angels

10. *Kyle Hendricks, RHP, Cubs

11. *Martín Pérez, LHP, Pirates (IL)

12. *Marco Gonzales, LHP, Pirates (IL)

13. *Jose Quintana, LHP, Mets

 

Relief pitchers

Late-inning relievers

1. Mason Miller, RHP, A’s

2. *Tanner Scott, LHP, Marlins

3. *Paul Sewald, RHP, Diamondbacks

4. Ryan Pressly, RHP, Astros

5. *Aroldis Chapman, LHP, Pirates

6. *Carlos Estévez, RHP, Angels

7. *Kirby Yates, RHP, Rangers

8. Tyler Rogers, RHP, Giants

9. Kyle Finnegan, RHP, Nationals

10. Michael Kopech, RHP, White Sox

11. Jake Diekman, LHP, Mets

12. *Adam Ottavino, RHP, Mets

13. Lucas Erceg, RHP, A’s

14. Emilio Pagán, RHP, Reds (IL)

15. Yimi García, RHP, Blue Jays (IL)

 

Relief fliers

1. *Andrew Chafin, LHP, Tigers

2. *Luis García, RHP, Angels

3. *Trevor Richards, RHP, Blue Jays

4. John Brebbia, RHP, White Sox

5. *Lucas Sims, RHP, Reds

6. Shelby Miller, RHP, Tigers

7. *Matt Moore, LHP, Angels

8. Héctor Neris, RHP, Cubs

9. Derek Law, RHP, Nationals

10. *Jalen Beeks, LHP, Rockies

11. Drew Smyly, LHP, Cubs

[Laika]

The Jays should sell so f***ing hard. This is a rare opportunity to rebuild.

 

Many of the players on that list won't even be shopped. The Astros won't sell, the Rays won't sell everybody, the Mets should buy not sell, D-Backs should buy not sell, the Cubs and Nats might even hold and go for WC3

 

Here is the amended list with more probably sellers.

 

Hitters

Stars

1. Luis Robert Jr., CF, White Sox

2. Bo Bichette, SS, Blue Jays

3. Vladimir Guerrero Jr., 1B, Blue Jays

4. Jazz Chisholm Jr., CF, Marlins

9. *Danny Jansen, C, Blue Jays

 

Good regulars

2. Taylor Ward, COF, Angels

3. Brent Rooker, DH, A’s

4. Luis Rengifo, IF, Angels

5. Andrew Vaughn, 1B, White Sox

9. *Elias Díaz, C, Rockies

12. *Josh Bell, 1B, Marlins

14. *Justin Turner, 1B, Blue Jays

16. *Mark Canha, COF, Tigers

17. Eloy Jiménez, COF, White Sox

 

Role players

2. *Kevin Kiermaier, CF, Blue Jays

3. Miguel Andujar, COF, A’s

4. *Tommy Pham, COF, White Sox

8. *Paul DeJong, SS, White Sox

9. *Kevin Pillar, CF, Angels

10. Isiah Kiner-Falefa, SS, Blue Jays

12. *Tim Anderson, SS, Marlins

14. *Brandon Drury, IF, Angels

16. Javier Báez, SS, Tigers

17. Andrew Benintendi, COF, White Sox

18. George Springer, COF, Blue Jays

 

Starting pitchers

Front-line starters

1. Garrett Crochet, LHP, White Sox

2. *Yusei Kikuchi, LHP, Blue Jays

3. *Jack Flaherty, RHP, Tigers

 

Mid-rotation starters

2. Erick Fedde, RHP, White Sox

3. Tyler Anderson, LHP, Angels

4. Cal Quantrill, RHP, Rockies

8. Paul Blackburn, RHP, A’s (IL)

9. Griffin Canning, RHP, Angels

11. *Martín Pérez, LHP, Pirates (IL)

12. *Marco Gonzales, LHP, Pirates (IL)

 

Relief pitchers

Late-inning relievers

1. Mason Miller, RHP, A’s

2. *Tanner Scott, LHP, Marlins

6. *Carlos Estévez, RHP, Angels

10. Michael Kopech, RHP, White Sox

13. Lucas Erceg, RHP, A’s

15. Yimi García, RHP, Blue Jays (IL)

 

Relief fliers

1. *Andrew Chafin, LHP, Tigers

2. *Luis García, RHP, Angels

3. *Trevor Richards, RHP, Blue Jays

4. John Brebbia, RHP, White Sox

6. Shelby Miller, RHP, Tigers

7. *Matt Moore, LHP, Angels

10. *Jalen Beeks, LHP, Rockies

[BTS]

It really is a shame that Yimi and Romano broke when they did. They would have returned a haul if they were both healthy and pitching to their capabilities.

[wilko]

It really is a shame that Yimi and Romano broke when they did. They would have returned a haul if they were both healthy and pitching to their capabilities.

 

Yimi still might. He might be back soon.

[hanton]

brain fart here with Volpe trotting home AFTER the tag on DJ, run doesn't count

 

[connorp]

Colt Keith starting to heat up. Guy that’s probably not on the radar for many.

I’m considering having my own “Connorps Fantasy Baseball Corner” thread in OT. Any objections?

[Laika]

Kind of wild but the only good Yankees hitters anymore are Soto and Judge. Carrying the entire team.

 

Everybody else who is active has a wRC+ under 100, OPS under .700. except Uncle Ben but he's played like twelve games

[Laika]

Colt Keith starting to heat up. Guy that’s probably not on the radar for many.

I’m considering having my own “Connorps Fantasy Baseball Corner” thread in OT. Any objections?

 

What the f*** are you even talking about? Colt Keith was one of the hottest preseason prospects. Everyone thought he'd be good.