General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Dr. Dinger]

Random question. Does anyone know why Turner's Jerseys all have a black streak mark across the his name on the back? I've noticed it's there every game. What's that all about?

 

It’s because he puts an absurd amount of pine tar on his bat and then rests it on his shoulder.

[harvey16]

It’s because he puts an absurd amount of pine tar on his bat and then rests it on his shoulder.

 

It's not even on his shoulder though, it's literally in the middle of his back, don't think his bat would even reach there.

[Spanky99]

Anyone else feel like Bo just doesn’t look engaged at all any more? He is a goner for sure.

 

lol

[Laika]

It's not even on his shoulder though, it's literally in the middle of his back, don't think his bat would even reach there.

 

Probably does it at this point as a superstition

[Spanky99]

It's not even on his shoulder though, it's literally in the middle of his back, don't think his bat would even reach there.

 

He rolls the bat over his shoulder when on deck.

[Dr. Dinger]

lol

 

It’s true, meat! He looks like a kid who’s been dragged to church.

[Spanky99]

It’s true, meat! He looks like a kid who’s been dragged to church.

 

Nah. he comes and does his work and plays hard, it's all you need, does he stay, I doubt it.

[glory]

People it’s nearly the same lineup as last year so u can t blame folks for worrying about the lineup it’s not just 6 games plus no one said 6 games means that’s how the season will be. Holy over react. 6 games in mlb is nothing we know that.

 

Exactly. The sample size is nothing. We all get that. No one is overreacting because of a 6 game sample. It’s the fact that the 2023 lineup was one of the most frustrating and unentertaining offenses I have ever seen as a Jays fan, and 2024 (on paper and so far on the field) looks like an extension of 2023 except with a much worse player at 3B. The Jays needed amazing pitching performance and health in order to sneak into the playoffs last year (including DS being Barry Bonds for 30 games). Hoping for that again is not realistic, so they kinda need the offense to improve, and there’s very limited upside in the players the team seems to want to count on. Being worried about this offense seems like a fairly logical emotion right now. You can be worried and still acknowledge that it is super early and the record so far is fine.

[jaysblue]

There is nothing wrong with being concerned about the lineup even after 6 games this season. The lineup from last year wasn't really improved and there have been some games and AB's from certain key players that could be a cause for concern. This lineup is heavily relying on bounce backs from guys like Vlad, Varsho, Springer, Kirk etc.

[Jimcanuck]

There is nothing wrong with being concerned about the lineup even after 6 games this season. The lineup from last year wasn't really improved and there have been some games and AB's from certain key players that could be a cause for concern. This lineup is heavily relying on bounce backs from guys like Vlad, Varsho, Springer, Kirk etc.

 

Let's give it 100 ABs, that is generally the threshold

[Spanky99]

There is nothing wrong with being concerned about the lineup even after 6 games this season. The lineup from last year wasn't really improved and there have been some games and AB's from certain key players that could be a cause for concern. This lineup is heavily relying on bounce backs from guys like Vlad, Varsho, Springer, Kirk etc.

 

For sure they are relying on those guys regression, I thought that was obvious to everyone, but the over-reaction is unnecessary at this point in the season. I'm sorry, but it's EARLY falls in this caveat.

[Brownie19]

There is nothing wrong with being concerned about the lineup even after 6 games this season. The lineup from last year wasn't really improved and there have been some games and AB's from certain key players that could be a cause for concern. This lineup is heavily relying on bounce backs from guys like Vlad, Varsho, Springer, Kirk etc.

 

We've been through this about 75 times already. This offense was 7th in MLB last year in wRC+ (higher than Philly, Baltimore), even while we had pretty bad years from Vlad, Kirk, Varsho and Springer. Did we struggle to score runs last year? Yes. Is that a statistical anomaly? It may have been. Our BA with RISP started out awful last year - just dreadful luck, but it did turn around in the 2nd half and we ended up near the middle of the pack.

 

Even if nothing really changes from last year, we probably should land between the 7th and 12th best offense in baseball (argue that's not enough all you want). People can suggest nothing has changed except a downgrade at 3rd, but player development and year to year improvement is a thing. Whether you call it a bounce back or just development, it's not unrealistic to expect Vlad, Kirk, Biggio, Varsho, etc. to simply be better than last year. We also have a full season with Davis Schneider and have other internal options at AAA that may be able to help our offense (Barger, Horwitz, Orelvis, etc.). Of course it would be great to see our baserunning improve from last year. Minor changes in philosophy could play a bit part in that.

 

If our starters play to their potential, this is probably a Top 5-8 offense. Is it a bit of a thin line? Yeah, for sure it is. But, for a team built on pitching and defense, that should be more than sufficient to have success.

[Spanky99]

Let's give it 100 ABs, that is generally the threshold

 

Yes, that's fair I guess, maybe 200.

[Abomination]

If anyone told me 7 days ago that we'd be 3-3 going into today, I'd be pretty happy. This is a road trip from hell to start the season. I know the first few games feel terrible, but the results are all that matter right now.

[jaysblue]

For sure they are relying on those guys regression, I thought that was obvious to everyone, but the over-reaction is unnecessary at this point in the season. I'm sorry, but it's EARLY falls in this caveat.

 

Where is there over-reaction? We're talking about 168 games dating back to last season.

 

I'll take 3-3 and what a great comeback win yesterday. Hopefully that could light the fire under these guys and the Jays could go on a streak! Overall if they finish the road trip .500 I'll be happy.

[jaysblue]

We've been through this about 75 times already. This offense was 7th in MLB last year in wRC+ (higher than Philly, Baltimore), even while we had pretty bad years from Vlad, Kirk, Varsho and Springer. Did we struggle to score runs last year? Yes. Is that a statistical anomaly? It may have been. Our BA with RISP started out awful last year - just dreadful luck, but it did turn around in the 2nd half and we ended up near the middle of the pack.

 

Even if nothing really changes from last year, we probably should land between the 7th and 12th best offense in baseball (argue that's not enough all you want). People can suggest nothing has changed except a downgrade at 3rd, but player development and year to year improvement is a thing. Whether you call it a bounce back or just development, it's not unrealistic to expect Vlad, Kirk, Biggio, Varsho, etc. to simply be better than last year. We also have a full season with Davis Schneider and have other internal options at AAA that may be able to help our offense (Barger, Horwitz, Orelvis, etc.). Of course it would be great to see our baserunning improve from last year. Minor changes in philosophy could play a bit part in that.

 

If our starters play to their potential, this is probably a Top 5-8 offense. Is it a bit of a thin line? Yeah, for sure it is. But, for a team built on pitching and defense, that should be more than sufficient to have success.

 

I knew the top Atkins shill would chime in haha.

[Terminator]

We've been through this about 75 times already. This offense was 7th in MLB last year in wRC+ (higher than Philly, Baltimore), even while we had pretty bad years from Vlad, Kirk, Varsho and Springer. Did we struggle to score runs last year? Yes. Is that a statistical anomaly? It may have been. Our BA with RISP started out awful last year - just dreadful luck, but it did turn around in the 2nd half and we ended up near the middle of the pack.

 

Even if nothing really changes from last year, we probably should land between the 7th and 12th best offense in baseball (argue that's not enough all you want). People can suggest nothing has changed except a downgrade at 3rd, but player development and year to year improvement is a thing. Whether you call it a bounce back or just development, it's not unrealistic to expect Vlad, Kirk, Biggio, Varsho, etc. to simply be better than last year. We also have a full season with Davis Schneider and have other internal options at AAA that may be able to help our offense (Barger, Horwitz, Orelvis, etc.). Of course it would be great to see our baserunning improve from last year. Minor changes in philosophy could play a bit part in that.

 

If our starters play to their potential, this is probably a Top 5-8 offense. Is it a bit of a thin line? Yeah, for sure it is. But, for a team built on pitching and defense, that should be more than sufficient to have success.

 

It's not even worth discussing anymore. They'll ignore the stats and claim you're an Atkins shill.

 

They don't even complain about the right things. The main problem with Atkins so far is player development (something that Mike understands) but they'll whine about roster construction and free agent signings when it's actually the thing Atkins is good at.

 

They ultimately might even be proven right as the offense could stink, it's baseball after all. But I don't think the evidence points to that just yet (the projections don't).

 

Best thing to do is just wait it out until the month of April is over and then they'll adjust their opinions (jaysblue would whine about the bullpen daily last year until they shut him up) or we can adjust ours (which I am willing to do once I see the evidence).

[Spanky99]

Where is there over-reaction? We're talking about 168 games dating back to last season.

 

Where is the over-reaction? Are you being obtuse on purpose? 6 games, that was last season, ya dingleberry. Smarten up.

[BatFlip]

Exactly. The sample size is nothing. We all get that. No one is overreacting because of a 6 game sample. It’s the fact that the 2023 lineup was one of the most frustrating and unentertaining offenses I have ever seen as a Jays fan, and 2024 (on paper and so far on the field) looks like an extension of 2023 except with a much worse player at 3B. The Jays needed amazing pitching performance and health in order to sneak into the playoffs last year (including DS being Barry Bonds for 30 games). Hoping for that again is not realistic, so they kinda need the offense to improve, and there’s very limited upside in the players the team seems to want to count on. Being worried about this offense seems like a fairly logical emotion right now. You can be worried and still acknowledge that it is super early and the record so far is fine.

 

There are definitely some people overreacting in the threads.

 

I agree with everything you said. I'm also concerned that Vlad/Springer/Kirk/Varsho don't bounce back. But, this is the team we have, and last year was a half decent offense even with the underperformances (but definitely frustrating to watch). It's still way too early to conclude that at least some of these guys won't bounce back over the course of a long ass season.

[Spanky99]

I saw guys posting on here a few days ago about peoples reactions to a small sample, Jays got no hit and it's flipping them, lol... SSS is a f***ing baseball disease in this sports fandom, crazy s***, hahaha.

[glory]

There are definitely some people overreacting in the threads.

 

I agree with everything you said. I'm also concerned that Vlad/Springer/Kirk/Varsho don't bounce back. But, this is the team we have, and last year was a half decent offense even with the underperformances (but definitely frustrating to watch). It's still way too early to conclude that at least some of these guys won't bounce back over the course of a long ass season.

 

It's certainly possible. The difference in this case is that there is not much to dream on. Chapman has 4+ WAR upside, IKF doesn't. Kiermaier had a 104 wRC+ last season but can we reasonably expect him to repeat that? I guess it's possible but I think something around 90 is probably more realistic for him given his talent level and age. I have no clue what Varsho is as an offensive player but his statcast numbers even prior to 2023 were not good. It's going to come down to Vlad, Bo, Springer, Kirk, and Jansen. DS being a wild card with some upside is why he should be playing everyday as the Jays need more of those types. Clement is another one.

 

I don't know, on paper it screams middle of the pack offense to me. Of course if the big guys in the lineup play like big guys, then it makes having lesser talented hitters around them more palatable. This window was predicated on Vlad and Bo being superstars, and they basically need to be this season.

[Spanky99]

It's certainly possible. The difference in this case is that there is not much to dream on. Chapman has 4+ WAR upside, IKF doesn't. Kiermaier had a 104 wRC+ last season but can we reasonably expect him to repeat that? I guess it's possible but I think something around 90 is probably more realistic for him given his talent level and age. I have no clue what Varsho is as an offensive player but his statcast numbers even prior to 2023 were not good. It's going to come down to Vlad, Bo, Springer, Kirk, and Jansen. DS being a wild card with some upside is why he should be playing everyday as the Jays need more of those types. Clement is another one.

 

I don't know, on paper it screams middle of the pack offense to me. Of course if the big guys in the lineup play like big guys, then it makes having lesser talented hitters around them more palatable. This window was predicated on Vlad and Bo being superstars, and they basically need to be this season.

 

Nice balanced post, glory.

[Spanky99]

I knew the top Atkins shill would chime in haha.

 

Nice comment to the discussion, geeze... is what you say to me if I was shooting back at you?

 

But, you fellas can carry on, although he was on point.

[connorp]

We've been through this about 75 times already. This offense was 7th in MLB last year in wRC+ (higher than Philly, Baltimore), even while we had pretty bad years from Vlad, Kirk, Varsho and Springer. Did we struggle to score runs last year? Yes. Is that a statistical anomaly? It may have been. Our BA with RISP started out awful last year - just dreadful luck, but it did turn around in the 2nd half and we ended up near the middle of the pack.

 

Even if nothing really changes from last year, we probably should land between the 7th and 12th best offense in baseball (argue that's not enough all you want). People can suggest nothing has changed except a downgrade at 3rd, but player development and year to year improvement is a thing. Whether you call it a bounce back or just development, it's not unrealistic to expect Vlad, Kirk, Biggio, Varsho, etc. to simply be better than last year. We also have a full season with Davis Schneider and have other internal options at AAA that may be able to help our offense (Barger, Horwitz, Orelvis, etc.). Of course it would be great to see our baserunning improve from last year. Minor changes in philosophy could play a bit part in that.

 

If our starters play to their potential, this is probably a Top 5-8 offense. Is it a bit of a thin line? Yeah, for sure it is. But, for a team built on pitching and defense, that should be more than sufficient to have success.

 

As usual, all you can do is just churn out a stat without any deeper thought to it. What if the Jays pitching and defense was really good and their hitting was crap. The end result may be a park factor that’s not the park itself, but the people playing on it. What a retard I am, I know. God forbid anyone thinks outside a box.

 

OPS was outside of the Top 10, which was the better place for them. Still is, worse likely

[connorp]

RC was always a boom box where the ball carried. It doesn’t turn into a pitchers park with a couple fence tweaks. Whatever place the Jays OPS is, move it back for wRC+. They play in a hitters park but it looks like they’re going to go on an extended run of a boring brand of baseball.

[jaysblue]

Blue Jays lose 8-0.

 

Brownie: "the Jays lineup is still one of the best in the league and Ross Atkins is the best!"

[Omar]

We've been through this about 75 times already. This offense was 7th in MLB last year in wRC+ (higher than Philly, Baltimore), even while we had pretty bad years from Vlad, Kirk, Varsho and Springer. Did we struggle to score runs last year? Yes. Is that a statistical anomaly? It may have been. Our BA with RISP started out awful last year - just dreadful luck, but it did turn around in the 2nd half and we ended up near the middle of the pack.

 

Even if nothing really changes from last year, we probably should land between the 7th and 12th best offense in baseball (argue that's not enough all you want). People can suggest nothing has changed except a downgrade at 3rd, but player development and year to year improvement is a thing. Whether you call it a bounce back or just development, it's not unrealistic to expect Vlad, Kirk, Biggio, Varsho, etc. to simply be better than last year. We also have a full season with Davis Schneider and have other internal options at AAA that may be able to help our offense (Barger, Horwitz, Orelvis, etc.). Of course it would be great to see our baserunning improve from last year. Minor changes in philosophy could play a bit part in that.

 

If our starters play to their potential, this is probably a Top 5-8 offense. Is it a bit of a thin line? Yeah, for sure it is. But, for a team built on pitching and defense, that should be more than sufficient to have success.

 

While this is a fair assessment, I would submit that player development and year to year regression is also a thing. It may just be that Vlad, Kirk, Biggio, Varsho,etc. of 2023 is just who they are. There is a distinct possibility that Vlad repeats last season or is even worse. While we are all expecting Vladdy to bounce back to mvp form we all must be cognizant of the possiblility that 2022/2023 Vladdy is just who he is. But hope abounds.

[Krylian]

Where is the over-reaction? Are you being obtuse on purpose? 6 games, that was last season, ya dingleberry. Smarten up.

 

So are you saying that Varsho and Kirk have only sucked for 7 games?

[Laika]

I'm sorry but any of you who think it's too early to be worried must not even be watching the games

 

Toronto has been COMPLETELY HOPELESS against Civale, Littell, Blanco, Javier, and Valdez.

 

One of those guys is a legit top of rotation arm (Valdez) but there are two journeymen in there and two mid rotation guys.

 

It's f***ing embarrassing. They can't even get a hit off these guys. They can't drive a single baseball against league average pitchers like Javier and Civale.

 

It's so over.

 

Just looking forward to what they can get for Bichette at this point. Maybe Luciano+ from SFG.

[Spanky99]

So are you saying that Varsho and Kirk have only sucked for 7 games?

 

No, how do you think I said that?