General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[G-Snarls]

Yikes. Hopefully they can work on things throughout spring and get him back on track, but it’s looking like he won’t be anything more than a back-end starter at this point.

 

For another team hopefully

[MikeM3]

Wes Parsons lurks

[BatFlip]

Ricky... save us

[Laika]

Ernie wants them to trade Espinal

 

3 singles today, two of them 100 mph+

[ColdPint]

Ernie wants them to trade Espinal

 

3 singles today, two of them 100 mph+

 

With Schneider likely fighting for ABs, and Horowitz, Clement, Martinez and Palmegiani all knocking on the door you have to wonder how the logjam is going to get cleared.

 

Time to move on from Espinal at the very least.

[G-Snarls]

Ernie wants them to trade Espinal

 

3 singles today, two of them 100 mph+

 

Buck Martinez for his entire Jays tenure "He was an all star in 2022!"

[G-Snarls]

Ricky... save us

 

Tiedemann and Vladdy could save the season

[Krylian]

 

Oh man this is awful

 

Yikes! Hope the kid completely recovers.

[glory]

With Schneider likely fighting for ABs, and Horowitz, Clement, Martinez and Palmegiani all knocking on the door you have to wonder how the logjam is going to get cleared.

 

Time to move on from Espinal at the very least.

 

Dumping Espinal for Clement is a no brainer. Whether a team would be willing to take all of Espinal’s contract in a trade is debatable now given the market, though. Maybe the years of control would entice a team looking for a utility IF.

[Governator]

Yup. This same FO/manager was trotting Manoah out last season when he was not right. Wouldn't shock me if they do the same here, especially if Tiedemann isn't built up by then. I don't know when Rodriguez is going to start pitching and/or whether they want to give him a SP workload right away or not. He's another wild card in this. But I'd be shocked if they have Francis start (he probably deserves a chance to) or White. Gotta hope Tiedemann or Rodriguez somehow get that spot.

 

I find it really sad we have to talk about the management of our team this way.

[max silver]

Just give Domingo German or Big Clev a couple mil to be the 5th starter. Manoah is cooked.

 

Maybe it's a good thing that Tiedemann wasn't traded for Soto after all. There aren't a lot of silver linings to the lousy spring debut but at least the velocity was up a bit compared to last spring's first start. The velo numbers are right in line with his numbers from the 2022 regular season. Of course none of that will matter if he doesn't get the command squared away.

 

2023 First Spring Start

 

Sinker Max 93.6 Ave 92.1

Slider Max 82.6 Ave 81.1

4 Seam Max 94.4 Ave 93.1

 

2024 First Spring Start

 

Sinker Max 94.4 Ave 93.1

Slider Max 83.4 Ave 81.5

4 Seam Max 95.5 Ave 93.7

 

2022 Regular Season

Sinker 93.3 Ave

Slider 81.5 Ave

4 Seam 93.9 Ave

 

Edited February 27, 2024 by max silver

[BigCecil]

Man did Atkins ever misread the market this winter...

 

Ya, He wasn't alone. He has a history of moving early to hedge in case of a surging market. He likes some insurance early - guys like Roark, extending Grichuk, taking an early shot on Yates, Kendrys Morales etc. This off season IKF and KK. Given how the market has shifted 2/15 for a guy with 0.2 WAR in '23 makes even less sense. OTOH his 1 year deals have been mostly very successful.

 

Still a bit surprised PECOTA projects Yanks 94 W's and us 88.

[Laika]

Sort of begs the question, which team(s) read the market well?

 

You can't just pick a team that sucks or is always cheap.

 

Scrolling through the signings by team, seems like most of them who spend anything have a few earlier signings that they may regret.

 

I guess you can say the Cubs did well getting Imanaga for his money and waiting out Bellinger. I don't see any other obvious winners though. And even with the Cubs, their actions may not have been prescient; they have been surprisingly cheap in FA for a few years, much to the chagrin of their fans who want them to operate like a big budget historic powerhouse franchise. So, maybe them "reading the market well" is just luck.

[glory]

This does feel a little like the 2017 off season, where the team was coming off incredible SP health and a playoff appearance in 2016, and then proceeded to jump the market early (Morales, Pearce) only to see the market crater shortly after. Hell, they even signed a Cuban with no MLB experience that winter (Gurriel). It certainly looks like they jumped the gun with the KK and IKF signings. KK had little to no market based on his own words, and IKF is a 80 wRC+ player so even with the defense I don't see how that's the type of player you overpay and jump the market on. Turner is a bit more justifiable, but out of all the DH options, he was one of the least appealing to me due to age. Of course, the FA market was so bad that the only real difference between what they did and what they could have done by waiting is probably a marginal difference in wins. Only real difference would be in payroll, which would have some significance if it opened up a bit more room to add a Chapman type on a short term deal without having to worry as much about the CBT implications, but I think the FO is truly done with Chapman and don't care to bring him back.

 

Honestly, the more I look at this team, the more I hope they say f*** it and just put Orelvis at 2B and Roden or Schneider in LF to begin the year and let whatever happens happen.

[G-Snarls]

Ya, He wasn't alone. He has a history of moving early to hedge in case of a surging market. He likes some insurance early - guys like Roark, extending Grichuk, taking an early shot on Yates, Kendrys Morales etc. This off season IKF and KK. Given how the market has shifted 2/15 for a guy with 0.2 WAR in '23 makes even less sense. OTOH his 1 year deals have been mostly very successful.

 

Still a bit surprised PECOTA projects Yanks 94 W's and us 88.

 

If he keeps making these great starting pitcher signings/extensions I'm cool with these little-ish misses

 

It's the lack of big bat addition that troubles me

[M.E.]

1-3 in preseason. Hurry up and panic.......................... :-)

[Spanky99]

If he keeps making these great starting pitcher signings/extensions I'm cool with these little-ish misses

 

It's the lack of big bat addition that troubles me

 

They certainly missed on ISO, as for those SP signings that were good, it'd be nice to actually develop some, cause most of the payroll is tied up in pitching, they need to figure that s*** out.

[BatFlip]

Tiedemann and Vladdy could save the season

 

It is their destiny.

[Spanky99]

It is their destiny.

 

Star Wars for the Win!

[BigCecil]

If he keeps making these great starting pitcher signings/extensions I'm cool with these little-ish misses

 

It's the lack of big bat addition that troubles me

 

Ya, thats fair. I think we are thump light. Or to quote Spank - ISO. Now if Vlad hits 40 and Springer and Bo bang 30 each problem solved?

 

I'm not thrilled about Turner. Love the player in his prime but at 39, middle of our order is not where I want to see him. The ST narratives around him are so typical. He is a coach and a great clubhouse guy...a teacher...almost yogic and Svengali. His BoSox won 78 games last year. Actually, he might just be our 4 hole bat. Projects 105. Gulp

 

Last year Belt was a "winner" who has "been there and done that" to show the way. At least he produced a 138 wRC+ Killer signing.

 

At the EOD, this all just comes down to performance. Not saying the "intangibles" have no value, but WAY too much is made of the vetrin presents etc.

[Spanky99]

Ya, thats fair. I think we are thump light. Or to quote Spank - ISO. Now if Vlad hits 40 and Springer and Bo bang 30 each problem solved?

 

I'm not thrilled about Turner. Love the player in his prime but at 39, middle of our order is not where I want to see him. The ST narratives around him are so typical. He is a coach and a great clubhouse guy...a teacher...almost yogic and Svengali. His BoSox won 78 games last year. Actually, he might just be our 4 hole bat. Projects 105. Gulp

 

Last year Belt was a "winner" who has "been there and done that" to show the way. At least he produced a 138 wRC+ Killer signing.

 

At the EOD, this all just comes down to performance. Not saying the "intangibles" have no value, but WAY too much is made of the vetrin presents etc.

 

Ohtani's 650 slug and 350 ISO would've been nice.

[hanton]

Manoah should have come into this game ready to go, he's not a veteran just getting reps, this is it for him.

[saskjayfan]

Manoah should have come into this game ready to go, he's not a veteran just getting reps, this is it for him.

 

Well that was funny.

[Eat My Shatkins]

I still think there is time to pull it together and put together a 100 win season. Bottom line is Atkinson delivered and got us Ohtani (in the aggregate, turner and IkF. If turner returns to 2017 form and IKF has a career best season). Also got zach Britton who if returns to 2016 form would be a very good guy to have)

 

[G-Snarls]

 

Don't try to make sense of Spilky77 posts

[Spanky99]

Manoah should have come into this game ready to go, he's not a veteran just getting reps, this is it for him.

 

What do you mean? He's came to camp in much better shape, according to data his stuff was good, the command was horrawful, hopefully he can figure it out, there's time. 1.2 innings doesn't tell the tale.

Edited February 28, 2024 by Spanky99

[BCZ]

Yikes. Hopefully they can work on things throughout spring and get him back on track, but it’s looking like he won’t be anything more than a back-end starter at this point.

 

Back-end starter is an over estimate at this point.

[BCZ]

Goodbye Manoah.... bum.

[Spanky99]

Its not as simple as “just offer him a contract”

 

He probably wants to go home. He got his bag already.

 

I told him this when he signed in the KBO, somehow it was Atkins fault. Derp.

[Jimcanuck]

Back-end starter is an over estimate at this point.

 

Holy reactionary post.