General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Krylian]

is it normal for early 20s athletes to be in constant agony this early in their careers? I hope so because if not doesn't help his trade value.

 

It's normal for anyone in poor shape to have discomfort.

[Carlos Danger]

And now, the long awaited "VLad is in the best shape of his life .." piece from the athletic.

 

DUNEDIN, Fla. – Vladimir Guerrero Jr. was preparing to step to the plate for batting practice during Tuesday’s first full-squad workout when a fan called out.

 

“Hey, Vladdy — looking good!”

 

The Toronto Blue Jays first baseman responded to the fan’s compliment with a friendly thumbs-up.

 

That random fan wasn’t the only one who took note of Guerrero’s leaner physique. After an offseason dedicated to getting fitter, the 24-year-old slugger arrived at the Blue Jays’ player development complex this week looking noticeably slimmer and stronger. It was similar to how he prepared ahead of his monster 2021 season and the Blue Jays can only hope this process leads to the same result.

 

“He looks great,” Blue Jays manager John Schneider said of Guerrero. “He put a ton of work in and I love the way he looks, love the way he’s prepared, and that’s what really good players do. They take ownership of everything in the offseason and they’re ready to go.”

 

 

Guerrero has been the planet Toronto’s offence has orbited around since he debuted in 2019. Since he stepped onto a big-league field, Guerrero has been an above-average hitter. But since his breakout season in 2021, when he had an American League-leading 1.002 OPS with 48 home runs and finished second behind Shohei Ohtani in AL MVP voting, his offensive numbers have declined. He had a .818 OPS in 2022 and a .788 OPS in 2023.

 

Guerrero’s floor is high considering even his down years are better than the major-league average. But, as he proved in 2021, his ceiling is as high as they come. He’s capable of being one of the game’s few elite hitters. This offseason, Guerrero re-dedicated himself to being in a better position physically to be that guy once again. With just two seasons left before he hits free agency, now is the time to prove that 2021 wasn’t a fluke.

 

Speaking candidly to reporters on Tuesday, Guerrero said via Blue Jays interpreter Hector Lebron that while he worked hard last offseason, “I didn’t work as hard as I did this year.”

 

Guerrero spent most of this past offseason in Florida, where he worked out at a private facility in Tampa. (If you follow Guerrero on Instagram, you probably saw him posting videos of his progress throughout the winter months.) He said his goal was to improve his entire body and report to camp in as good shape as he’d been ahead of the 2021 season.

 

“I achieved all the goals that I wanted to achieve,” Guerrero said. “Of course, being in shape like I used to be, like I felt before in previous years, and I really believe that I achieved that goal. And I feel great right now.”

 

Asked if he feels faster and stronger, Guerrero quipped, “Faster? I don’t know about that. But stronger? Yes.”

 

Getting out of bed every morning, he feels fresher, Guerrero said. The hope is that he can maintain that feeling throughout the demanding 162-game season. Last year, Guerrero said, he was rarely feeling at his best.

 

The first baseman had documented issues with his left wrist and right knee last year — he missed a handful of games, but was never placed on the injured list — but he said his pain spanned “from head to toes.” That said, Guerrero didn’t want to use nagging injuries as an excuse for his performance, instead saying the onus was on him because he didn’t prepare as well as he could have.

 

“If I tell you that I didn’t play with pain in a lot of games, I would be lying,” he said. “But that’s not an excuse. It’s part of the game. Sometimes you got to go on the field and grind, even if everything hurts. Also, I probably won’t blame that because I didn’t have the best preparation in the offseason last year.”

 

Along with working out this offseason, Guerrero was also working through the arbitration process. After the Blue Jays and Guerrero failed to agree to terms before the January deadline, the two parties went to a hearing, where independent arbiters ruled in Guerrero’s favour and awarded him a record $19.9 million contract for the 2024 season.

 

Guerrero attended the hearing in Arizona (when asked why, he said: “If I don’t go, I lose”). Considering the proceedings can make for uncomfortable listening for players, Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins said the responsibility was on the front office to ensure there were no hard feelings between Guerrero and the team.

 

“It’s not something I’m worried about at all,” Atkins said. “Having said that, I do acknowledge that it’s not an easy process. These are stressful things to go through. We would love to avoid that. But money isn’t just the solution. There’s a process that’s in place that we have to be respectful of.”

 

For his part, Guerrero said he understands it’s part of the business. He has spoken to the front office and said, “I don’t feel bad at all.”

 

“You turn the page and it’s all good,” he said.

 

Now looking ahead to the upcoming season, Guerrero is optimistic about what the Blue Jays can do this season, especially as they aim to improve their offensive numbers from a year ago when they were a middle-of-the-pack scoring team. Guerrero is particularly pleased about the addition of veteran Justin Turner, who the Blue Jays first baseman tried to recruit when the 39-year-old was playing for the rival Boston Red Sox.

 

“Last year at first base, I talked to him and I told him, ‘Hey, you’re going to become a free agent next year, so you might take a chance and sign with us,’” Guerrero said.

 

As for his own game, Guerrero said he wants to approach the season much like he did in 2021. That year, he said, he didn’t think of specific numbers or goals he wanted to hit, instead keeping his mind unburdened from expectations. He is hopeful that the same strategy will work once again.

 

“Maybe (I’ll have) the same numbers,” he said. “Maybe better.”

 

Deja vu... I remember this from 2-3 years ago when we saw Vlad moving tractor tires as part of his Core strength CrossFit WOD or whatever.. The the Team goes on the road, club house buffets, stop by for Abuela's cooking in LA and same old same old by June.

[keggy]

Deja vu... I remember this from 2-3 years ago when we saw Vlad moving tractor tires as part of his Core strength CrossFit WOD or whatever.. The the Team goes on the road, club house buffets, stop by for Abuela's cooking in LA and same old same old by June.

 

Be thankful for whatever production he provides this year then cut all ties. Even if he has a big year cut all ties. Vlad hasn't demonstrated the makeup required to justify a large investment contract

[Carlos Danger]

Be thankful for whatever production he provides this year then cut all ties. Even if he has a big year cut all ties. Vlad hasn't demonstrated the makeup required to justify a large investment contract

 

Concur, trade for as much as you can get his final year..

[Krylian]

Concur, trade for as much as you can get his final year..

 

He's not getting traded. He'll either walk for nothing or be signed to a deal they'll regret.

[max silver]

He's not getting traded. He'll either walk for nothing or be signed to a deal they'll regret.

 

Or maybe everything comes together for him and he leverages his talent to become a fearsome middle of the order bat year in and year out. He was tantalizing close last season and hopefully the better conditioning and mechanical changes bridge the remaining gap.

[Carlos Danger]

Or maybe everything comes together for him and he leverages his talent to become a fearsome middle of the order bat year in and year out. He was tantalizing close last season and hopefully the better conditioning and mechanical changes bridge the remaining gap.

 

And then has a career ending injury at 31 a la Prince Fielder...

 

 

On a similar note... The Giants invited The Panda to camp on a MILB deal. The headline of one of the local SF baseball/news pages reads. Best shape of his life, looking good Panda!

 

It's spring time... All is great...

[BatFlip]

I wanted to stay out of this l don’t give a f*** about Pearson and think the chances of him ever contributing are remote…but tremendous ceiling? That’s very incorrect and you should adjust expectations. Nate isn’t a top prospect anymore. He is a fringe BP option that likely won’t be w the team for much longer

 

Yup. Tremendous ceiling? Sounds like something Ross Atkins would say.

 

At this point I’d be pleasantly surprised if he can stick with the team in the bullpen. I suppose his ultimate ceiling may still be as a high leverage reliever, but I wouldn’t call that “tremendous”.

[Spanky99]

Yup. Tremendous ceiling? Sounds like something Ross Atkins would say.

 

At this point I’d be pleasantly surprised if he can stick with the team in the bullpen. I suppose his ultimate ceiling may still be as a high leverage reliever, but I wouldn’t call that “tremendous”.

 

I'm of the pleasantly surprised group, if he could only figure his command his ceiling would be high, but...

[max silver]

I wanted to stay out of this l don’t give a f*** about Pearson and think the chances of him ever contributing are remote…but tremendous ceiling? That’s very incorrect and you should adjust expectations. Nate isn’t a top prospect anymore. He is a fringe BP option that likely won’t be w the team for much longer

 

Nate has the raw stuff to be an excellent closer, I think that would classify as a tremendous ceiling. I'm not claiming there's much likelihood of reaching that ceiling at this point and I'd be reasonably happy if he could even become a low leverage reliever at this point.

[John_Havok]

is it normal for early 20s athletes to be in constant agony this early in their careers? I hope so because if not doesn't help his trade value.

 

Yes it is honestly. Whatever the sport is, if you're a pro, you're in some kind of pain or discomfort pretty much daily. Its just a matter of the severity, like whether it's an acute thing or a wear and tear thing.

[Dick_Pole]

Concerning Big Nate, I've all but lost faith in him being a multi-inning fireball stopper ala Mark Eichorn or something, just surprise me at this point kid, the control is getting old hat.

 

Not sure what you mean by fireball here? Didn't Eichhorn throw something like 70 MPH? Opposite of fireball unless you're just talking about results.

 

Pearson is not that far off from having to resort to trick pitching to succeed. Actually I'm surprised we don't see a lot more of that. A dude like Eichhorn who could throw 170 innings out of the pen bookended by a 95+ MPH starter and closer would be super valuable in today's baseball.

[Spanky99]

Not sure what you mean by fireball here? Didn't Eichhorn throw something like 70 MPH? Opposite of fireball unless you're just talking about results.

 

Pearson is not that far off from having to resort to trick pitching to succeed. Actually I'm surprised we don't see a lot more of that. A dude like Eichhorn who could throw 170 innings out of the pen bookended by a 95+ MPH starter and closer would be super valuable in today's baseball.

 

I was talking about results, he actually threw hard before he blew his arm out. Then reverted to the submarine by the pitching coach who knew hr was a good SS and threw from side arm angles and it worked with no pain. Dude was fantastic, met him a couple times.

[The_DH]

I was talking about results, he actually threw hard before he blew his arm out. Then reverted to the submarine by the pitching coach who knew hr was a good SS and threw from side arm angles and it worked with no pain. Dude was fantastic, met him a couple times.

 

I remember he had an appearance before blowing his arm, then came back throwing something that looked like a frisbee. 82 mph fastball and a slider. Probably be called a sweeper now. He was awesome.

[Spanky99]

I remember he had an appearance before blowing his arm, then came back throwing something that looked like a frisbee. 82 mph fastball and a slider. Probably be called a sweeper now. He was awesome.

 

Yeah, he threw hard back in the day with the traditional overhand windup, he adjusted well with the submarine angles, lol.

[Spanky99]

3 more sleeps till the Jays first ST game.

[burlingtonbandit]

Or maybe everything comes together for him and he leverages his talent to become a fearsome middle of the order bat year in and year out. He was tantalizing close last season and hopefully the better conditioning and mechanical changes bridge the remaining gap.

 

Even if he has a great year I'm still not sure he's the guy you want to sign long term for a boatload of cash. Who's to say he doesn't get his cash and then turn to Rendon and not try as hard.

 

If he has to be pushed this hard to get into shape, it might be tough convincing him once he already gets paid and doesn't have as much to play for.

[Jimcanuck]

Even if he has a great year I'm still not sure he's the guy you want to sign long term for a boatload of cash. Who's to say he doesn't get his cash and then turn to Rendon and not try as hard.

 

If he has to be pushed this hard to get into shape, it might be tough convincing him once he already gets paid and doesn't have as much to play for.

 

If he repeats 2021?

[Stangstag]

If he repeats 2021?

 

Probably just play it year by year and see if he can do it 2 seasons in a row.

 

How much would you even save by signing him after 2024 vs when he’s a free agent after 2025? Probably not enough to make the risk worth it,

 

See if he can string together 2 elite seasons before signing him to an elite player contract,

[Jimcanuck]

Probably just play it year by year and see if he can do it 2 seasons in a row.

 

How much would you even save by signing him after 2024 vs when he’s a free agent after 2025? Probably not enough to make the risk worth it,

 

See if he can string together 2 elite seasons before signing him to an elite player contract,

 

If he shoves in 2024 and willing to sign a reasonable deal after the season, you f***ing do it.

[John_Havok]

Probably just play it year by year and see if he can do it 2 seasons in a row.

 

How much would you even save by signing him after 2024 vs when he’s a free agent after 2025? Probably not enough to make the risk worth it,

 

See if he can string together 2 elite seasons before signing him to an elite player contract,

 

Even with a couple of elite seasons... Look at recent 1b contracts, that position doesn't get paid like the SS or CF of MLB. He'd probably still be only looking at 7/150-160 ...maybe 6/150+ at the most

[max silver]

Even with a couple of elite seasons... Look at recent 1b contracts, that position doesn't get paid like the SS or CF of MLB. He'd probably still be only looking at 7/150-160 ...maybe 6/150+ at the most

 

I'd give Vlad that type of deal with no qualms right now.

[John_Havok]

I'd give Vlad that type of deal with no qualms right now.

 

That's top of the range ...Freeman, Goldschmidt, Olson...is Vlad worth that right now?

 

I'd say no. But after 2 more years of the 40+ HR 150 wRC+ Vlad...yeah.

[max silver]

That's top of the range ...Freeman, Goldschmidt, Olson...is Vlad worth that right now?

 

I'd say no. But after 2 more years of the 40+ HR 150 wRC+ Vlad...yeah.

 

Yeah that's a fair point in that Vlad is going to need to prove he's worth that kind of deal, but a 7 year $150 million deal only pays him a shade over $20 million which just feels a bit low if he reaches 150 wRC+ in consecutive seasons. Another key point is how much younger he is going to be when reaching free agency compared to those other guys as well so it's a bit tricky to come up with a prospective contract length.

[Laika]

That's top of the range ...Freeman, Goldschmidt, Olson...is Vlad worth that right now?

 

I'd say no. But after 2 more years of the 40+ HR 150 wRC+ Vlad...yeah.

 

Olson is the comparable because he signed his deal after his age 27 season. Vlad would only be one year ahead of him.

 

The other two, hard to comp because they were older.

 

Olson also had some of his own ups and downs and some strikeout or hit tool concerns at times, but he had the benefit of being a good defender so I doubt he was ever as bad as Vlad can be at his worst.

[Stangstag]

If he shoves in 2024 and willing to sign a reasonable deal after the season, you f***ing do it.

 

I don’t think he’s willing to sign for anything less than 300 million, which is why he hasn’t signed an extension already.

[Stangstag]

Even with a couple of elite seasons... Look at recent 1b contracts, that position doesn't get paid like the SS or CF of MLB. He'd probably still be only looking at 7/150-160 ...maybe 6/150+ at the most

 

Yeah I agree. I think its gonna take him hitting free agency and realizing nobody will give him the huge contract he’s looking for before he finally circles back to the Jays

[justafan]

So, is Kirk still perfectly round or did he shed a few?

[Jimcanuck]

I don’t think he’s willing to sign for anything less than 300 million, which is why he hasn’t signed an extension already.

 

I don't think $300M is correct, there's no way. The number is probably closer to $200M. Problem for the Jays is the closer he gets to FA without an extension, the harder to sign. Which is why I said, if he shoves this year, sign him to a reasonable deal.

 

His conditioning efforts this offseason probably has more to do with his pending potential free agency than anything else.

[Daniel Labude]

Edited February 22, 2024 by G-Snarls