General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[max silver]

Well a couple of things here. The "DH penalty" might be real but I'm not sure anyone knows for sure. Second, you are talking about Springer like it's certain that he can't DH when the guy only has 80 ABs in the role which is too small of a sample size.

 

It's actually a 447 plate appearance sample as DH as a Blue Jay so the sample size is a lot bigger than you are implying.

[Spanky99]

1. Looks like Vlad has had the most success hitting out of the DH spot of all Jays hitters

2. He's terrible at 1B

 

 

Kind of makes sense no?

 

Yeah man, I thought what you posted was funny is all.

[glory]

I'd kind of prefer Joc here as he would have a lot more opportunities to enjoy the platoon advantage vs Soler. The Jays have plenty of right handed options on the roster to deploy against left handed pitching in the DH slot (Vlad, Kirk, Springer, Schneider etc.).

 

Both would have pros and cons. Soler would be playing everyday so there's no need for a platoon mate for him. On the flip side, if he's in line for a multi year deal as speculated, then he would clog up DH on a team that likely needs some fluidity there with Vlad and Springer. Joc mashes RHP and there are more RHP than LHP, so he'd have great value there, but then you need to strictly platoon him, which means adding a 2nd player since no one on the Jays currently can fill that role (assuming Schneider is starting at 2B, which he should at this point). If there's a scenario late in a game where Joc is due up and has to be pinch hit for Espinal against a LHP (and you know s*** like that will happen), then it becomes less desirable. If he's platooning with Jansen, then that's a different story, but the Jays in the past have been a bit cautious doing the two catcher lineup too often.

 

Ultimately, I'd be fine with either one. I'd probably lean towards Soler, acknowledging that he might be the riskier player in general, but the Jays absolutely need power and Soler even at his worst is a .200 ISO guy, so he might be the better fit.

[Frenchsoup]

George can get some Dh time but I still like him in RF he's pretty much all you could ask for

[max silver]

Both would have pros and cons. Soler would be playing everyday so there's no need for a platoon mate for him. On the flip side, if he's in line for a multi year deal as speculated, then he would clog up DH on a team that likely needs some fluidity there with Vlad and Springer. Joc mashes RHP and there are more RHP than LHP, so he'd have great value there, but then you need to strictly platoon him, which means adding a 2nd player since no one on the Jays currently can fill that role (assuming Schneider is starting at 2B, which he should at this point). If there's a scenario late in a game where Joc is due up and has to be pinch hit for Espinal against a LHP (and you know s*** like that will happen), then it becomes less desirable. If he's platooning with Jansen, then that's a different story, but the Jays in the past have been a bit cautious doing the two catcher lineup too often.

 

Ultimately, I'd be fine with either one. I'd probably lean towards Soler, acknowledging that he might be the riskier player in general, but the Jays absolutely need power and Soler even at his worst is a .200 ISO guy, so he might be the better fit.

 

This is certainly an interesting discussion. I looked up each of these dudes splits in their latest good offensive seasons, and it seems like the total offensive value was essentially a wash. Pederson provided approximately equal offensive value in approximately 75% of the plate appearances so it's possible the team would be better off with Pederson and maybe Vlad in at DH vs lefties and come out ahead offensively. I'm not sure if my methodology for comparison holds up as these occurred in different seasons but the values are weighted so hopefully it's at least semi legitimate.

 

2022 Pederson

 

vs RHP 21.1 wRAA

vs LHP 0.7 wRAA

total 21.8 wRAA

433 plate appearances

 

2023 Soler

 

vs RHP 6.6 wRAA

vs LHP 13.8 wRAA

total 20.4 wRAA

580 plate appearances

 

Soler absolutely clobbered lefties in his 135 plate appearances as he produced a 181 wRC+. Hitting in the top of the Blue Jays lineup he could still reasonably expect a similar level of playing time against left handed pitching when compared to top of the order Blue Jays hitters such as Vlad (124 PA) and Springer (144 PA) although adding him to an already right handed dominant lineup could limit the willingness of opposition managers to deploy left handed pitching against the team.

[Frenchsoup]

Like Votto answers a lot of questions...it makes more sense then the Soler move. But we're in communications with the Twinkies...

[Terminator]

It's actually a 447 plate appearance sample as DH as a Blue Jay so the sample size is a lot bigger than you are implying.

 

In his career Springer has a 105 wRC+ in 50 ABs as a DH or something. It's not that bad.

[max silver]

In his career Springer has a 105 wRC+ in 50 ABs as a DH or something. It's not that bad.

 

He has a career 105 wRC+ as a DH in 652 plate appearances. That's not awful by any means but on a team with an obvious opening to add more offense they can do a lot better than that.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/george-springer/12856/splits-tool?splitArr=41&splitArrPitch=&position=B&autoPt=false&splitTeams=false&statType=player&statgroup=2&startDate=2002-01-01&endDate=2023-11-01&players=&filter=&groupBy=career&wxTemperature=&wxPressure=&wxAirDensity=&wxElevation=&wxWindSpeed=&sort=-1,1

[Jimcanuck]

He's fine as a utility bench player but he doesn't have enough bat to be the primary DH.

 

Primary 2B

[Spanky99]

Statistical Noise... MAN!!!

 

It's the same thing as RISP.

[Jonn]

Maybe they should use Vlad as the primary DH and have someone else play 1B most of the time?

 

Vlad isn’t a good enough hitter to be a primary DH. Throw out 2021 he’s had a pretty mediocre career.

[max silver]

Vlad isn’t a good enough hitter to be a primary DH. Throw out 2021 he’s had a pretty mediocre career.

 

That's a load of s***. Vlad has typically been a very good to great offensive performer while in the DH position. Even ignoring his scintillating 2021 season Vlad has averaged 125 wRC+ over the last two seasons. He's one of the few players that doesn't seem to have his numbers crater offensively when sitting on the bench all game in between at bats either.

 

DH Production

 

2020 137 wRC+

2021 146 wRC+

2022 116 wRC+

2023 131 wRC+

 

He is projected for a 144 wRC+ in 2024. Compare this to the better available DH bats:

 

Soler 119 wRC+

Pederson 118 wRC+

Hoskins 116 wRC+

Martinez 106 wRC+

 

Go back the last two years and here are the wRC+ leaders at DH with a minimum of 500 plate appearances (this should capture guys who mostly man the DH position:

 

Alvarez 172

Ohtani 159

Harper 139

JD Martinez 126

 

That's a grand total of 4 primary DH players in all of MLB who produced an average wRC+ value higher than Vlad the last two seasons. He's absolutely strong enough with the bat to be a primary DH, I just don't necessarily think that would be wise to make a full time position switch at this point of his career.

Edited January 14, 2024 by max silver

[Frenchsoup]

Vlad Bassitt for Rizzo Nestor and Ben Rortvedt

[Frenchsoup]

Could we get Luis Arreaz off Miami? Maybe like a KK Davis Schneider package

[Frenchsoup]

I still like 1 year of Adames with a possible extension over 2 years of Bo

[Frenchsoup]

Tidemann for 1 year of Biebs and Bryan rochio

[Jonn]

That's a load of s***. Vlad has typically been a very good to great offensive performer while in the DH position. Even ignoring his scintillating 2021 season Vlad has averaged 125 wRC+ over the last two seasons. He's one of the few players that doesn't seem to have his numbers crater offensively when sitting on the bench all game in between at bats either.

 

DH Production

 

2020 137 wRC+

2021 146 wRC+

2022 116 wRC+

2023 131 wRC+

 

He is projected for a 144 wRC+ in 2024. Compare this to the better available DH bats:

 

Soler 119 wRC+

Pederson 118 wRC+

Hoskins 116 wRC+

Martinez 106 wRC+

 

Go back the last two years and here are the wRC+ leaders at DH with a minimum of 500 plate appearances (this should capture guys who mostly man the DH position:

 

Alvarez 172

Ohtani 159

Harper 139

JD Martinez 126

 

That's a grand total of 4 primary DH players in all of MLB who produced an average wRC+ value higher than Vlad the last two seasons. He's absolutely strong enough with the bat to be a primary DH, I just don't necessarily think that would be wise to make a full time position switch at this point of his career.

 

I would prefer they just move on from him if he's going to be a DH at 25 years old.

 

He's way to inconsistent, will be overpaid, and he's groundhogs worse nightmare the way he drills the ball into the ground on a regular basis. Not interested in his projections. I want someone who can hit the ball over the fence consistently at that position. He went almost a calender year without hitting a homerun at Rogers Centre.

[Frenchsoup]

Kirk for Higgy and an immediate extension lol Legendary catcher

[Jimcanuck]

Frenchsoup for GM

[Frenchsoup]

Lol assistant to the assistant gm

[Frenchsoup]

Winker Donaldson on cheap 1 year deals, sign Kluber or Ryu for the 5th spot or both.

[Frenchsoup]

Trade Mayza Brandon Barrera Pearson for Caleb Thielbar

[Frenchsoup]

Extend Biebs and Arreaz, and you still have Orelvis as a chip for the deadline plus other up and coming crystals

[JaysAllMighty]

Frenchsoup off his meds again.

[Laika]

Trade Mayza Brandon Barrera Pearson for Caleb Thielbar

 

Honestly dude you have to shut the f*** up

 

Every post you make sucks

 

All of your trade ideas suck

 

It's spam

[Pendleton]

Trade Mayza Brandon Barrera Pearson for Caleb Thielbar

 

Do you just pull names from a hat for these? Thielbar turns 37 in a couple weeks, and there are many similar FA arms available. Absolutely no justification for giving up that kind of return.

[Sorrow]

Honestly dude you have to shut the f*** up

 

Every post you make sucks

 

All of your trade ideas suck

 

It's spam

 

If it was just one post it wouldn’t bug me as much but holy f*** it’s just verbal diarrhea in text

[max silver]

I would prefer they just move on from him if he's going to be a DH at 25 years old.

 

He's way to inconsistent, will be overpaid, and he's groundhogs worse nightmare the way he drills the ball into the ground on a regular basis. Not interested in his projections. I want someone who can hit the ball over the fence consistently at that position. He went almost a calender year without hitting a homerun at Rogers Centre.

 

Vlad just posted the second lowest ground ball percentage of his career so that's not so much of an issue at this point. Vlad and the team need to determine how to turn the 95th percentile expected statistics into actual production and he can return to being a much better offensive performer. I recall reading that his barreled baseballs were travelling something like 20 feet less through the air compared to previous seasons, so perhaps his batted balls had too much topspin for optimal distance. His expected statistics support something in the range of 140 wRC+ even with the relative struggles of last season.

 

I think the team and Vlad are likely stuck with each other for the next season at the very least. I see no way that the team would be able to extract appropriate value in trade for Vlad given the inconsistency of his career and the salary he's been commanding through arbitration. I am very hopeful of a huge incoming season given the offseason spent training in Florida but it's up to Vlad to finally prove he can be the type of hitter his natural talent suggests. He has hundreds of millions of potential future earnings on the line at this point so it's up to him to finally prove he's going to be worth it.

[jaysblue]

Frenchsoup isn't even an entertaining or funny troll. It's just spam posts.

[Marew]

Honestly dude you have to shut the f*** up

 

Every post you make sucks

 

All of your trade ideas suck

 

It's spam

 

Where have you been the last 5 years? You can’t talk to people like that anymore.