General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2024)

[Ryu In My House]

Okay, chances are this season is over. What should the FO do for 2024?

 

I think a long term deal with Vladdy makes sense. Do it when he sucks. He should bounce back.

 

I would try to retain Chapman. $22M AAV, 5-years?

 

I would try to re-sign Ryu.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Ryu In My House

[Spanky99]

lol

[hanton]

Chapman and Ryu will go to the highest bidder.

 

Ryu would be a risky signing due to his age and injury history but some team might give him 2/24 or something like that, I'd stay clear at that price.

 

I hope somehow this team moves on from the current regime, regardless of whether they make the post season or not

[Terminator]

Stick a fork in these losers! Outscored 35-9 during the sweep. Here's some ideas for 2024:

 

-Dump Schneider. He sealed his fate after he gave the most Low T answer of all time yesterday when he said he wasn't concerned after we got blown out.

 

-Last offseason we broke up the barrio and added a bunch of guys with very vanilla personalities. Now we've got Varsho, Whit, Belt, etc. BORING. We need to get some ass kickers back on the team. Maybe bring back Donaldson to play some 3B. We should also add a crazy reliever. Someone with a penchant for starting brawls. Manoah was a good guy to have but no one takes him serious anymore after he ballooned up to 385 lbs.

 

-We also need a shakeup trade. The Springer, Bo, Vlad Jr., Kirk, Jansen core has all been here for 3 years now and it ain't working. No idea who you trade and for what though.

 

-Sign Joey Votto. I don't care just sign him.

 

-Atkins is a toss up to me. I liked all his offseason moves. I think the player development is pretty solid. But for some reason the analytics just aren't translating into on field success for the veterans. This lineup should be pretty good and it's not.

[BigCecil]

Stick a fork in these losers! Outscored 35-9 during the sweep. Here's some ideas for 2024:

 

-Dump Schneider. He sealed his fate after he gave the most Low T answer of all time yesterday when he said he wasn't concerned after we got blown out.

 

-Last offseason we broke up the barrio and added a bunch of guys with very vanilla personalities. Now we've got Varsho, Whit, Belt, etc. BORING. We need to get some ass kickers back on the team. Maybe bring back Donaldson to play some 3B. We should also add a crazy reliever. Someone with a penchant for starting brawls. Manoah was a good guy to have but no one takes him serious anymore after he ballooned up to 385 lbs.

 

-We also need a shakeup trade. The Springer, Bo, Vlad Jr., Kirk, Jansen core has all been here for 3 years now and it ain't working. No idea who you trade and for what though.

 

-Sign Joey Votto. I don't care just sign him.

 

-Atkins is a toss up to me. I liked all his offseason moves. I think the player development is pretty solid. But for some reason the analytics just aren't translating into on field success for the veterans. This lineup should be pretty good and it's not.

 

Post of the day lol.

[Krylian]

Forfeit '24. Come back in '25 and win.

[DonJays]

Okay, chances are this season is over. What should the FO do for 2024?

 

I think a long term deal with Vladdy makes sense. Do it when he sucks. He should bounce back.

 

I would try to retain Chapman. $22M AAV, 5-years?

 

I would try to re-sign Ryu.

 

Schneider and Atkins are gone. 100%. Zero chance they survive. Chapman f***ing stinks. kK is the only vet I’d consider retaining. Blow up the core

[Stangstag]

Drop all the pending free agents

 

Sign Pederson and Teo and a 5th starter.

 

Rotation and Bullpen pretty much the same

 

Lineup:

Bichette

Vlad

Pederson

Teo

Springer

Varsho

Kirk/Jansen

Schneider

Orelvis/Barger/Biggio/Espy

 

If Vlad/Springer/Varsho/Kirk don’t rebound there’s not much you can do with the roster without blowing things up. 2024 is the final kick at the can before you seriously re-evaluate the “core” going forward.

[jaysblue]

Stick a fork in these losers! Outscored 35-9 during the sweep. Here's some ideas for 2024:

 

-Dump Schneider. He sealed his fate after he gave the most Low T answer of all time yesterday when he said he wasn't concerned after we got blown out.

 

-Last offseason we broke up the barrio and added a bunch of guys with very vanilla personalities. Now we've got Varsho, Whit, Belt, etc. BORING. We need to get some ass kickers back on the team. Maybe bring back Donaldson to play some 3B. We should also add a crazy reliever. Someone with a penchant for starting brawls. Manoah was a good guy to have but no one takes him serious anymore after he ballooned up to 385 lbs.

 

-We also need a shakeup trade. The Springer, Bo, Vlad Jr., Kirk, Jansen core has all been here for 3 years now and it ain't working. No idea who you trade and for what though.

 

-Sign Joey Votto. I don't care just sign him.

 

-Atkins is a toss up to me. I liked all his offseason moves. I think the player development is pretty solid. But for some reason the analytics just aren't translating into on field success for the veterans. This lineup should be pretty good and it's not.

 

I'm definitely on board with a lot of these things.

 

I said before the Jays might need to shakeup their core and make tough decisions, but was blasted by some for it.

 

Would love Joey Votto as a part-time DH/bench bat. Think he could still offer something. Donaldson as well at 3B who is vocal and would speak up in the dugout if he saw BS. Hitting well in a small sample size with the Brewers.

 

Schneider and his coaching staff should be gone, outside from Pete Walker. Schneider has the appearance of an Alpha but is still a beta manager like Charlie. No fire whatsoever.

 

As for Atkins, like you couldn't care if he's back or gone. Don't think everything should be blamed on him, but he does own some of what happened and when you look at the big picture since he's been here, he's made some great roster moves but unable to translate that into Postseason success. Keep him on a short leash in 2024. If the team gets off to a bad start again, he should be gone.

[jaysblue]

Wonder if Chapman will get a multi-year deal or sign a 1-year contract to build up value again given his struggles since April? If he's open to a 1-year, would reconsider re-signing him for sure. He probably lost out on a big $180-200M deal he was primed to get.

[Olerud363]

Wonder if Chapman will get a multi-year deal or sign a 1-year contract to build up value again given his struggles since April? If he's open to a 1-year, would reconsider re-signing him for sure. He probably lost out on a big $180-200M deal he was primed to get.

 

If the latter does he just take the qualifying offer? Would someone give him a 1 year 20 million if qualifying offer is attached?

[Ryu In My House]

lol

 

You know, that's a poor plan for 2024, mate.

[Spanky99]

Stick a fork in these losers! Outscored 35-9 during the sweep. Here's some ideas for 2024:

 

-Dump Schneider. He sealed his fate after he gave the most Low T answer of all time yesterday when he said he wasn't concerned after we got blown out.

 

-Last offseason we broke up the barrio and added a bunch of guys with very vanilla personalities. Now we've got Varsho, Whit, Belt, etc. BORING. We need to get some ass kickers back on the team. Maybe bring back Donaldson to play some 3B. We should also add a crazy reliever. Someone with a penchant for starting brawls. Manoah was a good guy to have but no one takes him serious anymore after he ballooned up to 385 lbs.

 

-We also need a shakeup trade. The Springer, Bo, Vlad Jr., Kirk, Jansen core has all been here for 3 years now and it ain't working. No idea who you trade and for what though.

 

-Sign Joey Votto. I don't care just sign him.

 

-Atkins is a toss up to me. I liked all his offseason moves. I think the player development is pretty solid. But for some reason the analytics just aren't translating into on field success for the veterans. This lineup should be pretty good and it's not.

 

Hahahaha...

[Ryu In My House]

Wonder if Chapman will get a multi-year deal or sign a 1-year contract to build up value again given his struggles since April? If he's open to a 1-year, would reconsider re-signing him for sure. He probably lost out on a big $180-200M deal he was primed to get.

 

Such a great question. Early on, I was thinking uh oh, > $30M AAV with his next contract. But now...unsure. I really, really like him as a player on this team going forward, but we have some youngsters who could be pretty good, too. And way cheaper.

[Laika]

Heads will roll for sure. Just a question of where they stop. The lesser coaches are definitely gone. Schneider is probably gone.

 

Chadkins probably gets spared...maybe...

[Spanky99]

You know, that's a poor plan for 2024, mate.

 

No, your plan is poor... 50 AAV for Vlad at 10 years, Chappy for 5 years at 22 AAV, and sign Ryu is like... batshit crazy, man.

[Ryu In My House]

-Atkins is a toss up to me. I liked all his offseason moves. I think the player development is pretty solid. But for some reason the analytics just aren't translating into on field success for the veterans. This lineup should be pretty good and it's not.

 

I would say a lot of us agree with you here. I liked a lot of his moves, really since day one. But especially this off season. Hopefully he can figure out where he went wrong and correct for 2024. I blow up isn't necessary, but some big changes might be required.

[Olerud363]

Okay, chances are this season is over. What should the FO do for 2024?

 

I think a long term deal with Vladdy makes sense. Do it when he sucks. He should bounce back.

 

I would try to retain Chapman. $22M AAV, 5-years?

 

I would try to re-sign Ryu.

 

 

I think Atkins, Schneider and the coaching staff have to go. I've been asking Shapiro to please resign, but I do not think that will realistically happen.

 

I think the entire organization needs to revamp their focus on player development including development at the major league level and game preparation. Every organization (except the Rockies) is supersmart, and you need people who will stay up all night, put everything they have into it, getting the resources the players need to be their best.

 

You also will maybe have to make unconventional decisions.

 

I don't even care what permutation of players they end up with. Payroll should remain high. They should try to win next year, but what will lead to winning is having every asset perform at their highest level possible.

 

Notably this year

 

1. 3 young players, all with weight issues have seen their careers crash, these three players should have been worth 10 wins combined, maybe 15 but were 0. There is some tough love needed here in terms of attitude, dedication to fitness, ability to receive instruction and maybe some load management. Maybe Vlad should not be playing 160 games. Maybe Manoah should not have pitched 190 innings last year.

 

2. Another young hitter Varsho, crashed with respect to previous MLB performance and minor league stats.

 

3. Team since 2020 has performed awful in late season important series. I'm considering here WildCard 2020, Yankees home series 2021, WildCard 2022, and Rangers Series 2023. Season has to end sometime. But all these series were essentially the first elimination series of the year, and Jays are 0/4. Something psychological?

 

4. Jays team power is way down and the problem is not the collection of players. Varsho, Chapman, Vlad, Kirk, Springer even Bo are at career low for ISO. Compare to Braves everyone at career high as a group.

 

5. With Pearson maybe healthy (or who knows), and Tiederman maybe healthy (who knows) you need a front office who can get the most out of guys like this, neither is in any way ready for a starters workload, but in 2024 get the most out of them and use them in creative ways to compliment the weaknesses of the current starters.

 

Whatever the case need a front office and on field management that is creative, unconventional, cares about the players, has great people skills, can communicate with the fans, and will stay up ALL f***ING NIGHT, knowing it's a game of war with the other front offices.

[mphenhef]

My first steps:

 

Fire everyone on the hitting coach side of things and bring in some new people and ideas.

Revamp the advanced scouting department as they just aren't getting it done at the moment.

I let Keirmaier and Whit walk and look for a bigger bat for LF while shifting Varsho to CF.

I inform Manoah that he will not be getting traded and I am willing to let him sit in the minors until he gets his act together or until he is out of options. I also come down with punishment as harsh as allowed by the CBA for him not reporting to AAA.

[glory]

What I think will happen: Atkins stays, every coach on the hitting side is gone, and Schneider probably 50/50 at this point depending on how they finish this season (ex. if they go like 5-10 the rest of the way after going 0-4 against the Rangers, then he’s more likely to get canned). Walker is probably safe unless Atkins is gone.

[Olerud363]

My first steps:

 

Fire everyone on the hitting coach side of things and bring in some new people and ideas.

Revamp the advanced scouting department as they just aren't getting it done at the moment.

I let Keirmaier and Whit walk and look for a bigger bat for LF while shifting Varsho to CF.

I inform Manoah that he will not be getting traded and I am willing to let him sit in the minors until he gets his act together or until he is out of options. I also come down with punishment as harsh as allowed by the CBA for him not reporting to AAA.

 

 

THIS! Especially number 2. Biggest series of the year, Rangers prepared, Jays not.

 

Number 1 of course too. Every day should be devoted to understanding why the Braves are hitting .260 .340 .500 as a team, and VGJR and Kirk hitting .250 .330 .380.

 

Manoah? Damn right. Don't let the guy become a free agent and get his act together with somebody else.

[Brownie19]

Blow it up and rebuild. There are way too many issues to fix in the next year or 2. It's not reasonable to expect anyone to fix all the issues with Manoah, Vlad, Kirk (those guys all have a LIST of issues to fix) and the Jays aren't going to win anything if those guys give us like 2 WAR again. Oh and then we have to fill major holes at 3rd and LF.

 

There are far to many losers on this team. Hold the players accountable and trade Vlad, Kirk and Manoah for whatever you can get - can't allow an environment where there's no consequences for being obese and/or braindead. Trade everyone with value - Gausman, Bo, Berrios, Romano, Mayza, Swanson, Jansen, Kikucci, Springer. Sell high on Davis Schneider.

 

I know this won't happen, but I think it should unfortunately. Sometimes things just don't break your way. Cut your losses now.

[RustyTrombone]

Lets be real, a full blow it up and rebuild isnt gonna happen. As long as Bo and Vlad are here they Jays will be committed to be all in. That means for 2024 and 2025 things will remain mostly status quo. Some coaches will be scapegoated but Shapiro wont be going anywhere untill after 2025. Small chance for Atkins I suppose if Click is willing to step right in.

 

4 of the 5 starters will be back, core offensive pieces will all be back. FO will bank on Springer, Vlad and Kirk and Varsho all bouncing back and will make perhaps 1 big signing to add to the offense. Davis Schnieder and Horwitz will take the Merrifield and Belt roles and money will be spent on a proper masher. Bellinger?? Although he is massively overrated. Ohtani? Not much else out there.

[Olerud363]

Blow it up and rebuild. There are way too many issues to fix in the next year or 2. It's not reasonable to expect anyone to fix all the issues with Manoah, Vlad, Kirk (those guys all have a LIST of issues to fix) and the Jays aren't going to win anything if those guys give us like 2 WAR again. Oh and then we have to fill major holes at 3rd and LF.

 

There are far to many losers on this team. Hold the players accountable and trade Vlad, Kirk and Manoah for whatever you can get - can't allow an environment where there's no consequences for being obese and/or braindead. Trade everyone with value - Gausman, Bo, Berrios, Romano, Mayza, Swanson, Jansen, Kikucci, Springer. Sell high on Davis Schneider.

 

I know this won't happen, but I think it should unfortunately. Sometimes things just don't break your way. Cut your losses now.

 

 

I wouldn't be opposed to doing this except not trading Vlad, Kirk, Manoah low, or Davis Schneider high. Everyone else no problem. You could get fair value for them and start the rebuild.

 

Just can't sell Vlad, Kirk, Manoah this low. Need to figure player development. No question in my mind Vlad would have more 2021s if the right organization gets him physically and mentally right, and Jays need to another crack at him.

 

Kirk is almost as good as a minor league hitter as Vlad was, and also needs the team to get him on track.

 

Schneider is at a high point sure. However if the organization is going to come back from this fast they need to develop some of Schneider, Orelvis, Roden, Barger, Howritz, Pallmeganii. Jiminez, Teiderman and Pearson.

 

Sell everyone else. Revamp advanced scouting, game prep, player development, nutrition, and mental prep. And f***ing develop some positive prizes, get Vlad back on track for gods sake (then trade him with one year left year I guess).

 

Surprises to the positive side not negative for once. If you want to come back in 2 years, not 5 need to develop the current prospects, current low point players, and prospects acquired in trades.

[BigCecil]

The end of this season reminds me the movie Casino with DeNiro/Pesci where the Mafia Bosses are facing indictment because of a casino profit skimming ledger being kept and discovered by the FBI. Bodies started dropping all over.

 

Coaches will go - JS may go (Manager lifeline #2) the roster will turn some more - but the Bosses won't.

 

Team is a facing a ton of issues people have raised, and major decisions on Bo/Vlad as early as the '24 deadline. Its not a great look right now.

[Omar]

The anger is so palpable you guys couldn't wait for the off season thread.

[BigCecil]

The anger is so palpable you guys couldn't wait for the off season thread.

 

Pre off season venting is required. Break glass in case of emergency, or start a thread.

[Sorrow]

I think we'll see Hudgens and Martinez let go but no other major turnover.

 

I think we need to bring in a 3B whether that is Chapman (who we should offer a QO to) or Candalerio or a trade candidate. I'm pleasantly surprised with Biggio's play at 3B but don't want to bank on him being an everyday player in 2024. Barger seemingly has been converted to a RF/2B and Orelvis Martinez has been moved to 2B. I think that Davis Schneiider will fill a role similar to Merrifield this season where he'll play 2B and LF for 2024.

 

Off the 40 man roster I would let every free agent leave. I'd DFA Cimber, Lopez and Espinal to help clear some 40 man roster space.

 

I think we need to bring in another power bat whether it's a platoon bat like Joc Pederson or an everyday player like Teoscar or Bellinger we need someone to play LF that moves Varsho back to CF where his bat is acceptable with the quality of defence he plays.

 

 

We have 4/5 of the rotation for next season ready and maybe Manoah is serviceable again in 2024 or maybe Tiedeman forces the FO hand, there's always going to be some MiLB depth signings that fill in.

 

For the 'pen we're pretty set. Romano, Garcia, Mayza, Cabrera, Richards and Swanson are all under contract for 2024 and I think Green will likely take his option even if Toronto rejects their first player option.

[Omar]

Chapman

Merrifield

Belt

Keirmaier

 

All these you have to let walk. Don't be stupid. I'm sure Atkins will let them depart.

[wilko]

I wouldn't change a thing. Sign all the FA's to one year deals and lets try this again!