2023 Trade Deadline

[John_Havok]

Extension talks between the Cardinals and Jordan Hicks have not progressed, seems like he's back on the market.

[John_Havok]

Kk, Merrifield, and Chapman drag it the other way. It all comes out in the wash.

 

Kirk drags it WAY down though. everyone else on there that's under league average is at least within spitting distance of it.

[Jonn]

37 year old 99 wRC+ 1B/DH

 

Veteran Presents adds +20 wRC+

[John_Havok]

Veteran Presents adds +20 wRC+

 

and against LH relievers in the playoffs, +300 wRC+

[Spanky99]

Biggio or Espinal for Jose Suarez. They're gonna give him away.

 

What makes you think that, I can't find any rumours?

[L54]

Angels are gonna move Silseth for India

[John_Havok]

Padres are listening on Soto…not sure how seriously. Probably just the usual trade rumour clickbait since it came from Heyman.

[Jonn]

Padres are listening on Soto…not sure how seriously. Probably just the usual trade rumour clickbait since it came from Heyman.

 

Jays should absolutely be asking.

[MikeM3]

What makes you think that, I can't find any rumours?

 

Just a guess because they seem all in and he's a SP they aren't gonna use.

[Spanky99]

I don't get why people dismiss Heyman and Morisi tweets, they're powerful leaks for both team and player?

 

Kenny Ken and Passan are the heavy weights but...

[Jonn]

I don't get why people dismiss Heyman and Morisi tweets, they're powerful leaks for both team and player?

 

Kenny Ken and Passan are the heavy weights but...

 

Heyman seems to throw things out in the open and hope they stick. He’s also got a lot of s*** wrong and a lot of people don’t like him. He’s very prickly. Morosi just flat out makes s*** up to feed the Twitter machine. He thinks of cool things that could happen and stirs it up and often never materializes.

 

Passan and Rosenthal conduct themselves more professionally. Make sure they have the information right. They all hear things but some are more responsible with the info.

[Spanky99]

Heyman seems to throw things out in the open and hope they stick. He’s also got a lot of s*** wrong and a lot of people don’t like him. He’s very prickly. Morosi just flat out makes s*** up to feed the Twitter machine. He thinks of cool things that could happen and stirs it up and often never materializes.

 

Passan and Rosenthal conduct themselves more professionally. Make sure they have the information right. They all hear things but some are more responsible with the info.

 

Much is true, but they hit a lot and announce trade's well before teams do. They're just not top tier, lol.

[hanton]

today is so quiet, maybe the calm before the storm.

[AMS528]

David Robertson to the Marlins. Two rookie league guys in return for the Mets. Very funny to have the Mets selling to the Marlins.

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/38085699/mets-trading-reliever-david-robertson-marlins-sources-say

 

Also noticed that Robertson hit 20 bWAR this year. I think that's basically the value most consistently elite relievers hit and then kind of cap out at for their careers.

[Spanky99]

[M.E.]

Seems like that’s a deal the Jays could have done

[WryNGinger]

Pure rental with good stuff this for a meager return. Am I missing something? This seems like a s*** deal for the Mets. Surely they could have gotten more than lottery scratch tickets for a guy with good numbers on an expiring contract no?

 

Spite sell for the Mets? Message to the team?

[Spanky99]

Pure rental with good stuff this for a meager return. Am I missing something? This seems like a s*** deal for the Mets. Surely they could have gotten more than lottery scratch tickets for a guy with good numbers on an expiring contract no?

 

Spite sell for the Mets? Message to the team?

 

 

BA Grade/Risk: 50/Extreme

 

Track Record: Vargas signed later in the process than most of his peers, inking his deal with the Marlins on May 25, more than four months after the opening of the most recent international period. It all came together when the Marlins realized their talent pool was outfielder-heavy and they needed infielders for their second DSL club. Vargas was attempting to get noticed as a catcher but had enough infield chops to garner a contract. He put together an outstanding first season as a pro in the DSL.

 

Scouting Report: The first thing that stands out about Vargas is his excellent bat-to-ball skills. He whiffed just 13.8% of the time in the DSL, including a scintillating rate of just 9% miss within the strike zone. There's a pinch of impact there, too, with 18 extra-base hits and a 90th percentile exit velocity of 97.8 mph. Internal evaluators also note excellent barrel accuracy that helps him hold his own against both fastballs and secondaries in all quadrants of the strike zone. He bounced around the infield in 2022, with most of his reps at third base and then a near-equal split between shortstop and second base. He's likely to wind up at second, where his average speed and arm strength will play. He's a fair athlete with solid actions on the infield.

 

The Future: Vargas will move to the Florida Complex League in 2023. He has the ceiling of an everyday second baseman with above-average hittability and a bit of impact.

 

Scouting Grades: Hit: 55. Power: 45. Speed: 50. Fielding: 40. Arm: 50.

 

 

Organization Prospect Rankings

 

Team Logo of Miami Marlins

Ranked Miami Marlins #28 prospect in 2022

Track Record: Venezuela has been the go-to destination for catching prospects in recent years, and the Marlins snapped up one of the best available in the most recent crop when they signed Hernandez once the pandemic-delayed international period opened on Jan. 15, 2021. Hernandez spent his debut season in the DSL, where he showed impressive command of the strike zone.

 

Scouting Report: As an amateur, Hernandez showed off quick feet, plus arm strength that produced sub-2.0 second pop times and the quick footwork that should help keep him behind the plate in the long run. In the DSL and again at the Marlins’ postseason instructional camp at their big league stadium, Hernandez showed a strong sense of plate discipline. During the regular season, that skill allowed him to have nearly as many walks (31) as strikeouts (32). As an amateur he showed doubles power that was expected to amplify as he matured, as well as the strong hand-eye coordination to translate into bat-to-ball skills. Hernandez is also bilingual and has already shown a strong baseball aptitude for a player his age.

 

The Future: After debuting in the DSL, Hernandez should move stateside in 2022, when he’ll begin to show exactly what kind of ceiling he has going forth.

[L54]

Pure rental with good stuff this for a meager return. Am I missing something? This seems like a s*** deal for the Mets. Surely they could have gotten more than lottery scratch tickets for a guy with good numbers on an expiring contract no?

 

Spite sell for the Mets? Message to the team?

 

The best they could get for a 38 year old reliever?

[Brownie19]

Pure rental with good stuff this for a meager return. Am I missing something? This seems like a s*** deal for the Mets. Surely they could have gotten more than lottery scratch tickets for a guy with good numbers on an expiring contract no?

 

Spite sell for the Mets? Message to the team?

 

I don't know man. While there is obviously a ton of risk with Vargas, there also seems to be a f***ton of upside in his bat. Nice lottery ticket for the Mets.

[Laika]

Pure rental with good stuff this for a meager return. Am I missing something? This seems like a s*** deal for the Mets. Surely they could have gotten more than lottery scratch tickets for a guy with good numbers on an expiring contract no?

 

Spite sell for the Mets? Message to the team?

 

Yes you are missing some things, lol.

[AMS528]

I don't know man. While there is obviously a ton of risk with Vargas, there also seems to be a f***ton of upside in his bat. Nice lottery ticket for the Mets.

 

Agreed. You're not trading away someone who's going to play for a number of years, it's not SP or regular bat. It is a 38 year old reliever. A really good 38 year old reliever, but still. A lottery ticket that has genuine upside potential is a good return.

 

The Mets weren't going anywhere with Robertson on the roster, anything they get in return would ultimately be the right move given his age, and given that Edwin Diaz is back next year.

[hanton]

it's David Robertson 2023 version - this is not the elite throwing reliever he once was

[John_Havok]

it's David Robertson 2023 version - this is not the elite throwing reliever he once was

 

He's still very good. in Terms of fWAR he'd be the 3rd best reliever on the Jays behind Romano and Mayza.

 

This is good though, starts the market returns for rental relievers at 2 lottery tickets.

[hanton]

He's still very good. in Terms of fWAR he'd be the 3rd best reliever on the Jays behind Romano and Mayza.

 

This is good though, starts the market returns for rental relievers at 2 lottery tickets.

 

for sure, nothing like an experienced high leverage reliever. I tend not to look at the latest stats and was just saying he's lost a bit from the flame thrower he once was - good to know about his fwar

[The Cats Ass]

Similar package from us would have been Enmanuel Bonilla + Adrian Pinto.

 

I'm not sure I move that package for him. Over the past 2 months he's running a 4.02 FIP/4.17 xFIP.

 

Jays RPs that have pitched better over the past 2 months include....

 

Jay Jackson

Yimi Garcia

Tim Mayza

Erik Swanson

Jordan Romano

Trevor Richards

Edited July 28, 2023 by The Cats Ass

[Olerud363]

Similar package from us would have been Enmanuel Bonilla + Adrian Pinto.

 

Was one of the young guys the Marlins sent a multi million dollar top 5 of class international signing? If so crazy to trade a guy like that for a 38 year old reliever.

 

Trading Enmanuel Bonilla at 17 is like trading Vladimir Guerrero JR, Fernando Tatis JR, Yordan Alvarez, Orelvis Martinez at 17. Admittedly missing from the list is probably a lot of other top international guys at 17 that I never heard of because they busted.

 

What I mean is because of signing bonus and rank Emanuel Bonilla is way above other random teenagers, huge risk to trade. Trade some random teenager yeah, not your top international signing though.

[Olerud363]

Was one of the young guys the Marlins sent a multi million dollar top 5 of class international signing? If so crazy to trade a guy like that for a 38 year old reliever.

 

Trading Enmanuel Bonilla at 17 is like trading Vladimir Guerrero JR, Fernando Tatis JR, Yordan Alvarez, Orelvis Martinez at 17. Admittedly missing from the list is probably a lot of other top international guys at 17 that I never heard of because they busted.

 

What I mean is because of signing bonus and rank Emanuel Bonilla is way above other random teenagers, huge risk to trade. Trade some random teenager yeah, not your top international signing though.

 

Note - two of the guys I mention Yordan and Fernando Tatis JR. were traded at 17, though I can't remember if they were top international signings, or really just random guys that surprised.

[The Cats Ass]

Was one of the young guys the Marlins sent a multi million dollar top 5 of class international signing? If so crazy to trade a guy like that for a 38 year old reliever.

 

Trading Enmanuel Bonilla at 17 is like trading Vladimir Guerrero JR, Fernando Tatis JR, Yordan Alvarez, Orelvis Martinez at 17. Admittedly missing from the list is probably a lot of other top international guys at 17 that I never heard of because they busted.

 

What I mean is because of signing bonus and rank Emanuel Bonilla is way above other random teenagers, huge risk to trade. Trade some random teenager yeah, not your top international signing though.

 

No idea about bonuses. But I feel bonuses are a terrible way for evaluating talent. They're both the same FV on fangraphs. Vargas had a better season in the DSL @ 17 than Bonilla is currently having. Vargas was #10 on the Marlins list, Bonilla is #11 on ours.

[John_Havok]

No idea about bonuses. But I feel bonuses are a terrible way for evaluating talent. They're both the same FV on fangraphs. Vargas had a better season in the DSL @ 17 than Bonilla is currently having. Vargas was #10 on the Marlins list, Bonilla is #11 on ours.

 

You're right that bonus amounts would be a silly evaluation tool, but as a team who just spent that much money on him, I wouldn't be trading him 6 months into his development. After spending that much to get him, I'd want to be the one to develop him, at least for the first 2-3 seasons for sure.

 

That said, if he was a side piece in a more blockbustery type of deal, like for a trade involving someone like Luid Robert Jr coming back... sure. But certainly not as a piece in a rental reliever trade.