GDT: 3/3 Baltimore Orioles @ Toronto Blue Jays (1:37 ET)

[John_Havok]

The Jays have been mediocre for 30 years since winning the World Series in ‘93. We’ve made the playoffs 4 times since then which is less than the Orioles.

 

Pointless to bring up anything beyond when the Jays joined the league.

 

Using that cutoff, the Os have made the playoffs 7 times. 1 WS win.

jays have made the playoffs 8 times with 2 WS wins.

 

Sit down and shut the f*** up.

Edited May 22, 2023 by John_Havok

[max silver]

JD played only 113 games due to injury in 2017...So your assertion he had no prior injury history is incorrect.

 

Bob Nightingale reported the possible trade based on a source inside the Blue Jays org. There is a ton about it from both the Cards side and Blue Jays side and Nightingale is a credible writer... Makes me think it was legit, and not just a rumor from some blogger..

 

I don't recall you ever mentioning what specific offseason that Donaldson should have been traded. Up until that point of his initial 2017 injury Donaldson had been a picture of good health, so I don't think anyone could have really known that he was going to spiral into a downward trend of bad health for several seasons after that.

[Carlos Danger]

I don't recall you ever mentioning what specific offseason that Donaldson should have been traded. Up until that point of his initial 2017 injury Donaldson had been a picture of good health, so I don't think anyone could have really known that he was going to spiral into a downward trend of bad health for several seasons after that.

 

I said his walk year. I have never and never would have, even in retrospect, advocated trading JD prior to his walk year.

[John_Havok]

Kys bitch

 

If you’re going to insult people could you at least spell out full words? Kids today are so lazy.

 

Fysmcysmfatkys. Bitch.

[max silver]

I said his walk year. I have never and never would have, even in retrospect, advocated trading JD prior to his walk year.

 

I understand your points. However, I think if you asked the fans in retrospect, if we should have traded JD at high value in the off season and some similar moves instead of waiting and having a meddling season, I think the majority would say that if they could do it over again would choose to have broken it down, sucked even more for just a bit and got some top specs from guys like JD.

 

Where does this post say anything about Donaldson's walk year? It simply says in the off season.

Edited May 22, 2023 by max silver

[Carlos Danger]

Where does this post say anything about Donaldson's walk year? It simply says in the off season.

 

Ok, my bad, I thought I had wrote (or at least in my mind I thought I had referred to the 2018 season or walk-year, which is the one I called meddling. The "supposed" trade offer was also in in the off season prior to the 2018 season, so I thought that it was inferred. My bad for not being more clear.

[max silver]

Ok, my bad, I thought I had wrote (or at least in my mind I thought I had referred to the 2018 season or walk-year, which is the one I called meddling. The "supposed" trade offer was also in in the off season prior to the 2018 season, so I thought that it was inferred. My bad for not being more clear.

 

Yeah that certainly would have been a better time for a trade rather than the desperation move they made at the trade deadline. I thought it would have been far wiser to offer Donaldson a qualifying offer and given him a chance at a bounce back season. The trade return couldn't have been much more underwhelming than what they ultimately received at the deadline in Merryweather. The front office must have really wanted to avoid having Donaldson play around the incoming younger players given how they moved him out at the last minute, despite the return being awful and Donaldson actually being injured at the time of the trade as well.

[Olerud363]

IÂ’m not lecturing the Orioles, IÂ’m lecturing the fair weather fans who are pointing at the Orioles right now and wondering why we canÂ’t have thatÂ…when the simple answer is that those fans doing the finger pointing would never want to watch a team play .290 baseball for 5 seasons in order to get the top picks over that period. They constantly demand a winning team, but also constantly demand franchise altering generational draft picks when the team is picking in the 20-30 slots in the first round.

 

They watch the current results of a franchise who have had 6 seasons above .500 in the past 25 f***ing years and act like theyÂ’re some model to follow. Right now the Os are reaping the short term benefits of being unbelievably s***** for a quarter of a century. Look at the level of bitching and moaning about the Jays right no who have the 8th best record in baseball. What do you think the level of bitching would be if the Jays allowed themselves to be bottom-feeders for 25 years? TheyÂ’d never support the team in those times and be constantly whining about how terrible the franchise is.

 

IÂ’d rather see this years Jays team for the next 5 or 6 years than watch whatÂ’s gone on in Baltimore for the last 6.

 

Nobody is saying they want to be a losing team for 25 years. What happened to the Orioles after 2017 was more them reacting intelligently to bad circumstances. In 2017 Orioles and Jays were the same. In 2018 Orioles collapsed to .290 out of no where. Then they reacted to that pretty well. Instead of a useless attempt back to 70 wins they just let another bad year happen, then the Pandemic, and they let this go on 2 more years in an environment where there were no and then limited fans. The moment things normalized in 2022 they won 85, and now might win 95 this year. Timed it perfectly. Really 3 years where they were expected to be horrible (2 in a pandemic). The 1st year of being horrible just came out of no where.

 

What fans want is for the Jays to react to whatever circumstances they are presented with intelligently. If the division is going to be real tough for 4 years and it doesn't look like Jays have the right core, does it make sense to keep on trucking through 80 win seasons for 3 years? Or do something dramatic? Acquire a bunch of young talent every way they can and build a stronger base for the next win cycle.

[John_Havok]

Nobody is saying they want to be a losing team for 25 years. What happened to the Orioles after 2017 was more them reacting intelligently to bad circumstances. In 2017 Orioles and Jays were the same. In 2018 Orioles collapsed to .290 out of no where. Then they reacted to that pretty well. Instead of a useless attempt back to 70 wins they just let another bad year happen, then the Pandemic, and they let this go on 2 more years in an environment where there were no and then limited fans. The moment things normalized in 2022 they won 85, and now might win 95 this year. Timed it perfectly. Really 3 years where they were expected to be horrible (2 in a pandemic). The 1st year of being horrible just came out of no where.

 

What fans want is for the Jays to react to whatever circumstances they are presented with intelligently. If the division is going to be real tough for 4 years and it doesn't look like Jays have the right core, does it make sense to keep on trucking through 80 win seasons for 3 years? Or do something dramatic? Acquire a bunch of young talent every way they can and build a stronger base for the next win cycle.

 

You can honestly sit there and tell me Jays fans would be okay in the present with a .300-.400 win team for 5 straight years in the chance they might get lucky to draft a Jackson Holliday, Rutschman…and a few others?

 

I don’t believe that for a second because they never have before.

[max silver]

You can honestly sit there and tell me Jays fans would be okay in the present with a .300-.400 win team for 5 straight years in the chance they might get lucky to draft a Jackson Holliday, Rutschman…and a few others?

 

I don’t believe that for a second because they never have before.

 

In Olerud363's defense only 4 of those seasons were of the awful variety as the 2017 Oriole team was more of the disappointing variety with a .463 winning percentage. You would have no way to know this was going to be the case, but the 2020 season only consisted of 60 games as well, so that would also mitigate the amount of misery that you would be subjected to as a fan.

[Olerud363]

You can honestly sit there and tell me Jays fans would be okay in the present with a .300-.400 win team for 5 straight years in the chance they might get lucky to draft a Jackson Holliday, RutschmanÂ…and a few others?

 

I donÂ’t believe that for a second because they never have before.

 

Do you think Jays fans would be any happier with a string of 78 win seasons where they have no chance because the other teams in the divisions are winning 105? Is it a big difference between a 58 win season not being in contention for one day and a 78 win season?

 

Anyway I really don't think fans are wanting the Jays to tank, the fans just want to see better outcomes given whatever circumstances are presented.

 

July 28th 2019 organization has Vlad, Bo, Jansen, Gurriel, Hernandez, Kirk, Moreno, Biggio, Manoah, and others, a Stroman trade to make, an upcoming 5th overall pick, and permission to expand payroll to 200 million for several years.

 

Would the Orioles management team done a better job with that circumstance? Would AA ?

 

Kind of a silly and unfair question, because it was this management team that mostly got them to that point, but decisions starting at trade deadline 2019 are what is being questioned.

 

Edit: Also had Pearson who in 2019 looked like one of the if not the best pitching prospect in the game.

[John_Havok]

Do you think Jays fans would be any happier with a string of 78 win seasons where they have no chance because the other teams in the divisions are winning 105? Is it a big difference between a 58 win season not being in contention for one day and a 78 win season?

 

Anyway I really don't think fans are wanting the Jays to tank, the fans just want to see better outcomes given whatever circumstances are presented.

 

July 28th 2019 organization has Vlad, Bo, Jansen, Gurriel, Hernandez, Kirk, Moreno, Biggio, Manoah, and others, a Stroman trade to make, an upcoming 5th overall pick, and permission to expand payroll to 200 million for several years.

 

Would the Orioles management team done a better job with that circumstance? Would AA ?

 

Kind of a silly and unfair question, because it was this management team that mostly got them to that point, but decisions starting at trade deadline 2019 are what is being questioned.

 

Edit: Also had Pearson who in 2019 looked like one of the if not the best pitching prospect in the game.

 

To answer one of those questions, which is probably the most important one of the convo, yes, there is a massive difference from a team hovering around .500 or better vs a 58 win team, when the ownership of the team is who they are. They need the Jays to be relevant in the standings far more often than not in order to take full advantage of the marketing machine that the team is for them.

 

I’m not even arguing that Atkins has failed to put the finishing touches on the team he built, just that doing what the Orioles are currently doing is also absurd to pattern after, so singing their praises as an org as a model to follow is dumb.

[Spanky99]

Look at that username! Wow!

 

lol

[Spanky99]

JD played only 113 games due to injury in 2017...So your assertion he had no prior injury history is incorrect.

 

Bob Nightingale reported the possible trade based on a source inside the Blue Jays org. There is a ton about it from both the Cards side and Blue Jays side and Nightingale is a credible writer... Makes me think it was legit, and not just a rumor from some blogger..

 

lmao...

[Spanky99]

Olerud should just start his annual the sky is falling thread and leave all that s*** in there.