General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[G-Snarls]

How could Ross Atkins have even defended against what has happened this year, lmao?

 

Does he need a crystal ball and a psychoanalyst to be able to tell him that Vlad is going to lay a 0 WAR egg and Kirk+Springer+Varsho+Manoah are going to underperform their projections and 2022 production by like 13 f***ing WAR combined?

 

Like what could he have possibly done better that isn't ******** hindsight dumbo speak?

 

The players are blowing it. Blame the players.

 

For sure

 

The vast majority of us thought the offense this year was going to be good and it just hasn't been because so many guys underperforming their projections.

 

The pitching has been better than expected and he put together an excellent bullpen.

 

As upsetting as this season has been they assembled a team that SHOULD have been better than this. MANY writers picked the Jays to win the division this year.

 

I'm not biased for or against Atkins. Just being objective.

[jaysblue]

I don't understand you. It seems you finally agree that this season isn't on Atkins, it's on the players. That was primarily my argument all season, during which you just kept calling me a homer (and now Mike Wilner?). You seemingly now agree with me, yet still want a pat on the back because you told us the "it's early" response was BS. You seem to be speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

If you agree that this season is on the players, than the "it's early" response always held true. Nobody wants to lose a lot early in the year, but all you can do is hope the key players start playing near their career norms and projections. That's all we could do and unfortunately, it looks like it wasn't meant to be and isn't going to happen. If you re-ran this season over 100 times, I doubt this offense would produce at or below what we saw this season more than 10-15 times. But that's baseball.

 

It's a number of factors like I've said. It's mostly on the players, as is always the case. Though Atkins and the FO aren't off the hook and do deserve some blame as well IMO. You can't just give them a free pass. Especially given that from 2021 till now have been disappointing results when all things considered, in what should have been their prime years/window to contend for a World Series.

[BigCecil]

For sure

 

The vast majority of us thought the offense this year was going to be good and it just hasn't been because so many guys underperforming their projections.

 

The pitching has been better than expected and he put together an excellent bullpen.

 

As upsetting as this season has been they assembled a team that SHOULD have been better than this. MANY writers picked the Jays to win the division this year.

 

I'm not biased for or against Atkins. Just being objective.

 

Fair. A lot of writers picked them to win the D and the WS in 2022 too. Didn’t they start 2022 as the Vegas odds top bet to win the WS? Close to it anyway. Vlad was worse than I could have imagined but he was a 2.8 WAR player in 2022. He wasn’t 2021. Springer is tough to actually count on given his injury history but he was a 4 WAR guy in 22. Kirk was not great most of the 2nd half 2022. He hasn’t rebounded. The FO won’t be evaluated by fans and owners based on 2023 alone. It will be on the body of work, and results, since 2016. I suspect they stay and some coaches don’t return.

[Sorrow]

I don’t even think that Vlads ceiling is as high as we thought it was in 2021. He raked in the milb parks and hit basically like he did in 2022 once he got to the Rogers Centre. He’s really performed poorly at the Rogers Centre for his career.

 

My biggest fear with Vlad is he has another year in 2024 like he had this year and is due something like 30m in arbitration for replacement level production and is either severely overpaid or a DFA candidate.

[Spanky99]

You said the same s*** when the Jays kept delaying Schneider/Clement callups to keep zeros like Espigarbage on the roster.

 

I did... ???

[Spanky99]

I wish I was wrong, but alright.

 

The bullpen wasn't looking that great in May as it is now. The Jays pen didn't have Hicks and Cabrera, Richards was still used more as a bulk reliever, Garcia had ERA's above 5 for both the month of April and May. Bass and Cimber were still be used in high leverage spots. The bullpen right now looks a lot better than it did in April/May.

 

I made criticisms of Atkins and this front office for not taking this team to the next level yet during their tenure. Which right now to this date holds true especially if they miss the Postseason. It seems like when I brought up the 2021 season, everyone wanted to forget that disappointment like it never happened. A lot of revisionism likes to go on around here.

 

You were one of the posters at the time who criticized me for saying that the easy part of the schedule wasn't going to be a walk through. You and others were using the schedule as an excuse. It's still early in this part of the light schedule so the Jays could go on a run let's hope! Though so far they haven't taken advantage of this softer part of the schedule. Something fundamentally is wrong with this team this season, as we all know they've been frustrating to watch.

 

Hopefully they could win the Nats series today and could go on a run against the A's, Royals and Rockies. It's not over just yet, but time is dwindling.

 

Holy f***...

 

[Steeljays]

gross, I might start cheering for another team if Alonso was on the team.

 

I am in the NY area. I will say that Alonso is the biggest douche in baseball.

[Spanky99]

I don't understand you. It seems you finally agree that this season isn't on Atkins, it's on the players. That was primarily my argument all season, during which you just kept calling me a homer (and now Mike Wilner?). You seemingly now agree with me, yet still want a pat on the back because you told us the "it's early" response was BS. You seem to be speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

If you agree that this season is on the players, than the "it's early" response always held true. Nobody wants to lose a lot early in the year, but all you can do is hope the key players start playing near their career norms and projections. That's all we could do and unfortunately, it looks like it wasn't meant to be and isn't going to happen. If you re-ran this season over 100 times, I doubt this offense would produce at or below what we saw this season more than 10-15 times. But that's baseball.

 

Bingo... lol.

[Brownie19]

I am in the NY area. I will say that Alonso is the biggest douche in baseball.

 

You need to watch Vlad more often...

[bones10]

Just win today someone start the winning streak thread

[DonJays]

You need to watch Vlad more often...

Yup - no chance Alonso is a bigger douche than Vlad. I want to see his jaw broken next time he dumps ice on somebody

[Steeljays]

You need to watch Vlad more often...

 

vlad immature issues stem from management. They still allow the nonsense. Their attempt last season was to break up the " Dugout clowns" like Teo and LGJ. Vlad has gotten worse. They let him run the asylum. And from what I have seen, some of the players don't care for it. I have noticed that a few times after games his silly Gatorade episodes. You can tell by their body language.

[Steeljays]

Yup - no chance Alonso is a bigger douche than Vlad. I want to see his jaw broken next time he dumps ice on somebody

 

Nope. I have witnessed Pete up close and personal. Guy is a grade A douche

[Brownie19]

vlad immature issues stem from management. They still allow the nonsense. Their attempt last season was to break up the " Dugout clowns" like Teo and LGJ. Vlad has gotten worse. They let him run the asylum. And from what I have seen, some of the players don't care for it. I have noticed that a few times after games his silly Gatorade episodes. You can tell by their body language.

 

I'd suggest the dynamic between a FO and someone who should be your star can be a delicate situation. These are men, not high school kids. If the players don't like it - why don't they address it themselves? These aren't kids waiting for the teacher to step in and yell at the class clown.

 

There's also cultural differences at play here that can't be ignored.

[RustyTrombone]

Breaking Vladdys jaw next time he ice baths someone.....LMAO you guys are hilarious

[Captain_Obvious]

Breaking Vladdys jaw next time he ice baths someone.....LMAO you guys are hilarious

 

I don't want Vladdy hurt this much. I just want him to go the IL with a broken fingernail or sprained pinky to help the team win.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Captain_Obvious

[Steeljays]

I'd suggest the dynamic between a FO and someone who should be your star can be a delicate situation. These are men, not high school kids. If the players don't like it - why don't they address it themselves? These aren't kids waiting for the teacher to step in and yell at the class clown.

 

There's also cultural differences at play here that can't be ignored.

 

Maybe they have addressed but the teacher pet syndrome is real.

[Masterbather]

vlad immature issues stem from management. They still allow the nonsense. Their attempt last season was to break up the " Dugout clowns" like Teo and LGJ. Vlad has gotten worse. They let him run the asylum. And from what I have seen, some of the players don't care for it. I have noticed that a few times after games his silly Gatorade episodes. You can tell by their body language.

 

When you have a front office that allows multiple players to come to camp fat, you set a low bar for professionalism.

 

Quite frankly, I've always felt it's embarrassing when players splash Gatorade on reporters. People can call me oversensitive I don't care. I don't think it's cute or funny that Hazel Mae has to deal with that s***. She's not a player she doesn't get to go get cleaned up. What if she has somewhere to go after the game? What if she's wearing something that gets ruined because of the stupidity? She probably hates it but doesn't want to rock the boat especially as a female reporter. She shouldn't have to speak up about it. She shouldn't have to make compromises. I think the front office should step in on things like that, I personally think it's completely unprofessional and honestly disrespectful.

[wilko]

When you have a front office that allows multiple players to come to camp fat, you set a low bar for professionalism.

 

Quite frankly, I've always felt it's embarrassing when players splash Gatorade on reporters. People can call me oversensitive I don't care. I don't think it's cute or funny that Hazel Mae has to deal with that s***. She's not a player she doesn't get to go get cleaned up. What if she has somewhere to go after the game? What if she's wearing something that gets ruined because of the stupidity? She probably hates it but doesn't want to rock the boat especially as a female reporter. She shouldn't have to speak up about it. She shouldn't have to make compromises. I think the front office should step in on things like that, I personally think it's completely unprofessional and honestly disrespectful.

 

Give her one of those long Bob Barker microphones. Problem solved.

[L54]

When you have a front office that allows multiple players to come to camp fat, you set a low bar for professionalism.

 

Quite frankly, I've always felt it's embarrassing when players splash Gatorade on reporters. People can call me oversensitive I don't care. I don't think it's cute or funny that Hazel Mae has to deal with that s***. She's not a player she doesn't get to go get cleaned up. What if she has somewhere to go after the game? What if she's wearing something that gets ruined because of the stupidity? She probably hates it but doesn't want to rock the boat especially as a female reporter. She shouldn't have to speak up about it. She shouldn't have to make compromises. I think the front office should step in on things like that, I personally think it's completely unprofessional and honestly disrespectful.

 

Can’t say nothin to Vladdy Daddy!! The Franchise

[glory]

As bad as Vlad has been this season (and for 60% of his career, sadly), I wouldn’t trade two years of him for one year of Alonso. Just doesn’t make sense for the Jays. If you want to trade him for a rental then see if the Padres are moving Soto and try to work out a deal there (it would take more than Vlad). Otherwise either keep him or find a deal involving more controllable pieces. Hard to trade Vlad now since teams won’t give fair value. Maybe Preller or the Marlins would value Vlad enough not to lowball.

[Jonn]

Yup - no chance Alonso is a bigger douche than Vlad. I want to see his jaw broken next time he dumps ice on somebody

 

Someones having flashbacks to high school when he got bullied.

[bones10]

How good has Francis been though, that came out of no where and it has saved the pen a few games.

[Laika]

How good has Francis been though, that came out of no where and it has saved the pen a few games.

 

His command has been excellent this year

 

His curveball seems to give hitters fits. I think it performs better than its current Stuff+ grades.

 

Even if you buy the grades on his breaking balls, Stuff+ says he has a plus FB and average SL and CU. Also, plus command so far.

 

His Pitching+ in limited innings is #1 on the team in 2023...

 

He should be stretched out in 2024 IMO. He might be a viable MLB SP.

[deanmike]

[Stangstag]

 

I like how Biggio went from hitting cleanup a week ago to 9th tonight. Like what??

 

Also what’s up with Belt

[RustyTrombone]

I like how Biggio went from hitting cleanup a week ago to 9th tonight. Like what??

 

Also what’s up with Belt

 

Lefty on the mound. Also Belt is dealing with something apparently.

[deanmike]

Thank god Atkins called up McTrash instead of Lantigua or Orelvis. Now we get the pleasure of seeing Cavan Biggio's 30 wRC+ vs LHP in RF because it's a rest day for Jansen! Yay!

 

This is what the lineup could and should have been today:

DH Springer

LF Schneider

1B Vlad

RF Whit

3B Orelvis

C Kirk

2B/SS Clement

SS/2B Lantigua

CF Varsho

 

Instead we have useless McGarbage on the bench and Espishit is still here. Still have 3-4 out of the next 6 games against LHP starters after this too!

 

Even the defensive alignment for this game is off, as I continue to be mystified by the consistent usage of Biggio as the backup RF on Springer DH days. Whit is very capable in both corner outfield spots and Schneider could have played LF, shifting Biggio to 2B. Also why is Varsho batting 6th instead of 7th against a LHP starter? You don't need that much separation between Varsho and Biggio in the batting order.

Edited August 30, 2023 by deanmike

[deanmike]

I like how Biggio went from hitting cleanup a week ago to 9th tonight. Like what??

 

Also what’s up with Belt

 

Back spasms.

[Brownie19]

Thank god Atkins called up McTrash instead of Lantigua or Orelvis. Now we get the pleasure of seeing Cavan Biggio's 30 wRC+ vs LHP in RF because it's a rest day for Jansen! Yay!

 

This is what the lineup could and should have been today:

DH Springer

LF Schneider

1B Vlad

RF Whit

3B Orelvis

C Kirk

2B/SS Clement

SS/2B Lantigua

CF Varsho

 

Instead we have useless McGarbage on the bench and Espishit is still here. Still have 4 out of the next 6 games against LHP starters after this too!

 

Would you shut the f*** up? We understand you'd like Lantigua and Orelvis on the team right now.