General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Omar]

Gausman on the bump today. Perhaps todays gdt can salvage some dignity. Someone make it happen.

[Dick_Pole]

Leave it to the BJMB posters to be upset that the prospects played better than expected and the team tried to win earlier than expected rather than "trust the process" and be a garbage team that loses 95+ games for four years. How dare Rogers open up the wallet so that the FO could sign guys like Springer, Ryu and Gausman to long term FA contracts! Should have been a bag of s*** team like the Rays that trade all of their key players early, no one watches or goes to their games, has one of the lowest franchise values and despite all the fellating from baseball message board nerds, still has exactly zero World Series victories. This team has various weaknesses - namely conditioning apparently because if Manoah and Guerrero were performing to expectations it would be 20 games over .500 right now - but a willingness to compete isn't one of them.

 

You hear the same s*** over and over on the Jays, Raptors and Leafs. The "smart" sports fans wish they would trade their core early for prospects. No, this isn't how a big market team owned by a billionaire corporation that knows how to suck Canadians out of their money operates. If you want to cheer for a team that trades all of their decent players early to try to keep payroll low and game the system to the point that players seethe during a CBA negotiation, just go ahead and cheer for small market teams like the Rays. It's exhausting listening to you people. STILL bitching about the Donaldson trade that happened 5 years ago. But does the FO get any credit for using Francisco Liriano like a chess master? Nope!

 

It's like you all think that Atkins and Shapiro are looking at the farm system and contract situation out to 2025 and are twiddling their thumbs going "do-dee-do". They obviously have some idea of what they want for the future and will have pretty good payroll flexibility to make it happen. If Bichette doesn't sign long term, they'll get someone else. It won't just be a black hole. Frankly I'm not a fan of all these 13 year $400 million contracts so if that what it takes to sign Bichette, sign me up for a 30+ year old free agent with a 3-5 year contract instead. The Jays have shown to not be afraid to do those kind of deals.

[Spanky99]

So were just gonna wait to lose him for nothing if he won't sign an extension and just f*** the franchise over for half a decade?

 

lmao

[BigCecil]

Leave it to the BJMB posters to be upset that the prospects played better than expected and the team tried to win earlier than expected rather than "trust the process" and be a garbage team that loses 95+ games for four years. How dare Rogers open up the wallet so that the FO could sign guys like Springer, Ryu and Gausman to long term FA contracts! Should have been a bag of s*** team like the Rays that trade all of their key players early, no one watches or goes to their games, has one of the lowest franchise values and despite all the fellating from baseball message board nerds, still has exactly zero World Series victories. This team has various weaknesses - namely conditioning apparently because if Manoah and Guerrero were performing to expectations it would be 20 games over .500 right now - but a willingness to compete isn't one of them.

 

You hear the same s*** over and over on the Jays, Raptors and Leafs. The "smart" sports fans wish they would trade their core early for prospects. No, this isn't how a big market team owned by a billionaire corporation that knows how to suck Canadians out of their money operates. If you want to cheer for a team that trades all of their decent players early to try to keep payroll low and game the system to the point that players seethe during a CBA negotiation, just go ahead and cheer for small market teams like the Rays. It's exhausting listening to you people. STILL bitching about the Donaldson trade that happened 5 years ago. But does the FO get any credit for using Francisco Liriano like a chess master? Nope!

 

It's like you all think that Atkins and Shapiro are looking at the farm system and contract situation out to 2025 and are twiddling their thumbs going "do-dee-do". They obviously have some idea of what they want for the future and will have pretty good payroll flexibility to make it happen. If Bichette doesn't sign long term, they'll get someone else. It won't just be a black hole. Frankly I'm not a fan of all these 13 year $400 million contracts so if that what it takes to sign Bichette, sign me up for a 30+ year old free agent with a 3-5 year contract instead. The Jays have shown to not be afraid to do those kind of deals.

 

What’s with all the pearl clutching these days Dick in your super Atkins fandom phase? Of course he gets credit for getting Teo for peanuts. There are few posters who don’t acknowledge the solid moves made. There are also legit criticisms. The team has been a 90ish win team. We get it. That’s not bad. We get it.

[Spanky99]

Leave it to the BJMB posters to be upset that the prospects played better than expected and the team tried to win earlier than expected rather than "trust the process" and be a garbage team that loses 95+ games for four years. How dare Rogers open up the wallet so that the FO could sign guys like Springer, Ryu and Gausman to long term FA contracts! Should have been a bag of s*** team like the Rays that trade all of their key players early, no one watches or goes to their games, has one of the lowest franchise values and despite all the fellating from baseball message board nerds, still has exactly zero World Series victories. This team has various weaknesses - namely conditioning apparently because if Manoah and Guerrero were performing to expectations it would be 20 games over .500 right now - but a willingness to compete isn't one of them.

 

You hear the same s*** over and over on the Jays, Raptors and Leafs. The "smart" sports fans wish they would trade their core early for prospects. No, this isn't how a big market team owned by a billionaire corporation that knows how to suck Canadians out of their money operates. If you want to cheer for a team that trades all of their decent players early to try to keep payroll low and game the system to the point that players seethe during a CBA negotiation, just go ahead and cheer for small market teams like the Rays. It's exhausting listening to you people. STILL bitching about the Donaldson trade that happened 5 years ago. But does the FO get any credit for using Francisco Liriano like a chess master? Nope!

 

It's like you all think that Atkins and Shapiro are looking at the farm system and contract situation out to 2025 and are twiddling their thumbs going "do-dee-do". They obviously have some idea of what they want for the future and will have pretty good payroll flexibility to make it happen. If Bichette doesn't sign long term, they'll get someone else. It won't just be a black hole. Frankly I'm not a fan of all these 13 year $400 million contracts so if that what it takes to sign Bichette, sign me up for a 30+ year old free agent with a 3-5 year contract instead. The Jays have shown to not be afraid to do those kind of deals.

 

Pretty broad brush you're painting with there, Dick!!!

[Stangstag]

lmao

 

I feel like im taking crazy pills with multiple posters saying we need to trade Bichette with 2 yrs of control left

[Jimcanuck]

I feel like im taking crazy pills with multiple posters saying we need to trade Bichette with 2 yrs of control left

 

If the Jays try to extend him this offseason, there is no interest from the other side, and the farm still seems relatively barren, the chance he gets dealt is not negligible.

[Stangstag]

If the Jays try to extend him this offseason, there is no interest from the other side, and the farm still seems relatively barren, the chance he gets dealt is not negligible.

 

Pretty much 0 chance that happens IMO. Assuming neither Vlad/Bo are extended, it makes most sense to take another kick at the can in 2024. I don’t think you even consider trading them until they’re in their final year.

 

Re-evaluate after the 2024 season and if the outlook is still bleak, consider selling all valuable assets.

 

I just don’t see any urgency in trading Bichette with 2 years of control if we’re trying to compete.

[jaysblue]

I feel like im taking crazy pills with multiple posters saying we need to trade Bichette with 2 yrs of control left

 

They likely aren't trading him this offseason though hopefully the FO lays some ground work on signing him to an extension, so they could build around him for the next decade. If they can't, it's something that needs to be explored as they approach closer to his free agency.

 

A lot can happen over the next two seasons. This team might even look worse with an aging Springer, and Bassitt and some key pieces leaving FA like Chapman. Who knows if Manoah rebounds in 2024 and 2025. As well, Gausman right now is at the top of his game, though there is always the chance for slight regression. So a lot depends on how this FO compliments the core next offseason via trades and free agent signings.

 

Obviously if this team is a 100-win team and they look like World Series contenders, Bo isn't going anywhere in 2024 or 2025. But if they float around mediocrity or can't take that next level from a 90 win team in 2024/2025, it's better to get some assets in return rather than lose him for nothing.

[Stangstag]

They likely aren't trading him this offseason though hopefully the FO lays some ground work on signing him to an extension, so they could build around him for the next decade. If they can't, it's something that needs to be explored as they approach closer to his free agency.

 

A lot can happen over the next two seasons. This team might even look worse with an aging Springer, and Bassitt and some key pieces leaving FA like Chapman. Who knows if Manoah rebounds in 2024 and 2025. As well, Gausman right now is at the top of his game, though there is always the chance for slight regression. So a lot depends on how this FO compliments the core next offseason via trades and free agent signings.

 

Obviously if this team is a 100-win team and they look like World Series contenders, Bo isn't going anywhere in 2024 or 2025. But if they float around mediocrity or can't take that next level from a 90 win team in 2024/2025, it's better to get some assets in return rather than lose him for nothing.

 

Yeah im not saying lose him for nothing (if the team sucks). Im saying that decision doesn’t need to be made THIS offseason.

 

Team still likely projects to be in a playoff spot next season.

[Jimcanuck]

Pretty much 0 chance that happens IMO. Assuming neither Vlad/Bo are extended, it makes most sense to take another kick at the can in 2024. I don’t think you even consider trading them until they’re in their final year.

 

Re-evaluate after the 2024 season and if the outlook is still bleak, consider selling all valuable assets.

 

I just don’t see any urgency in trading Bichette with 2 years of control if we’re trying to compete.

 

The return is a lot less in the final year. The reality is, no one on the Jays should be considered untouchable / untradeable. If some team is willing to deliver a haul for Bichette this offseason, you have to to listen and consider it.

[Spanky99]

Gausman on the bump today. Perhaps todays gdt can salvage some dignity. Someone make it happen.

 

WE NEED TOWELLEY MaN!!!

[Omar]

WE NEED TOWELLEY MaN!!!

 

I'm in Chicago right now so no guarantees. Just hoping i don't get shot coming home from the game in my Blue Jays gear Tuesday night.

[jaysblue]

Yeah im not saying lose him for nothing (if the team sucks). Im saying that decision doesn’t need to be made THIS offseason.

 

Team still likely projects to be in a playoff spot next season.

 

They have to replace Chapman at 3B. Replace the value Belt, KK and Merrifield have provided in the lineup. 4 key bats right there.

 

Hope that Manoah bounces back or have to replace him with a solid No. 2 starter. Hope that Vladdy can improve and return close to his 2021 form. Hope Gausman still pitches at an elite level and doesn't lose a beat. Springer needs to stay healthy and be a 3-4 WAR outfielder. Hope that Varsho can take the next step forward. Hope that Kirk can bounce back and return close to his 2022 form.

 

As for the bullpen, which is always volatile, hope Romano still gets the job done and other guys like Swanson, Pearson and Mayza don't implode.

 

Not trying to sound negative or anything but have to factor in a lot of things.

 

They still likely are a Wildcard contender next season, though it will be a busy offseason which should be fun to watch and they will need to make significant improvements around the roster to take this team to the next level.

[jaysblue]

Anyone planning on driving to Detroit next weekend?

[IrishCanuck]

Hello, been a fan since the days of George Bell, Lloyd Moseby, Jesse Barfield..... watched every pitch of 92/93 playoffs.

 

I heard the commentators talking about the lineup today... here's my take on what it should be:

 

1. Kevin Kiermaier CF

2. Whit Merrifield 2B

3. Bo Bichette SS

4. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 1B

5. George Springer RF

6. Matt Chapman 3B

7. Daulton Varsho LF

8. Brandon Belt/A. Kirk/D. Jansen DH/C

9. A. Kirk/D. Jansen/Belt DH/C

 

:¬) go Jays!

[Spanky99]

lulz

[Jonn]

Hello, been a fan since the days of George Bell, Lloyd Moseby, Jesse Barfield..... watched every pitch of 92/93 playoffs.

 

I heard the commentators talking about the lineup today... here's my take on what it should be:

 

1. Kevin Kiermaier CF

2. Whit Merrifield 2B

3. Bo Bichette SS

4. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 1B

5. George Springer RF

6. Matt Chapman 3B

7. Daulton Varsho LF

8. Brandon Belt/A. Kirk/D. Jansen DH/C

9. A. Kirk/D. Jansen/Belt DH/C

 

:¬) go Jays!

 

How the f*** is Varsho hitting ahead of Belt?

[L54]

Leave it to the BJMB posters to be upset that the prospects played better than expected and the team tried to win earlier than expected rather than "trust the process" and be a garbage team that loses 95+ games for four years. How dare Rogers open up the wallet so that the FO could sign guys like Springer, Ryu and Gausman to long term FA contracts! Should have been a bag of s*** team like the Rays that trade all of their key players early, no one watches or goes to their games, has one of the lowest franchise values and despite all the fellating from baseball message board nerds, still has exactly zero World Series victories. This team has various weaknesses - namely conditioning apparently because if Manoah and Guerrero were performing to expectations it would be 20 games over .500 right now - but a willingness to compete isn't one of them.

 

You hear the same s*** over and over on the Jays, Raptors and Leafs. The "smart" sports fans wish they would trade their core early for prospects. No, this isn't how a big market team owned by a billionaire corporation that knows how to suck Canadians out of their money operates. If you want to cheer for a team that trades all of their decent players early to try to keep payroll low and game the system to the point that players seethe during a CBA negotiation, just go ahead and cheer for small market teams like the Rays. It's exhausting listening to you people. STILL bitching about the Donaldson trade that happened 5 years ago. But does the FO get any credit for using Francisco Liriano like a chess master? Nope!

 

It's like you all think that Atkins and Shapiro are looking at the farm system and contract situation out to 2025 and are twiddling their thumbs going "do-dee-do". They obviously have some idea of what they want for the future and will have pretty good payroll flexibility to make it happen. If Bichette doesn't sign long term, they'll get someone else. It won't just be a black hole. Frankly I'm not a fan of all these 13 year $400 million contracts so if that what it takes to sign Bichette, sign me up for a 30+ year old free agent with a 3-5 year contract instead. The Jays have shown to not be afraid to do those kind of deals.

 

That’s great. I’m happy for you bro

 

Or I’m sorry that happened to you

[L54]

I can see it now. Vlad and Bo both walk for whatever s***** picks they get and then posters will be like why did we wait to sell?!?

[IrishCanuck]

How the f*** is Varsho hitting ahead of Belt?

 

ok..ok..calm down...he just hit 2 HRs so far today...so then let's go with:

 

1. Kevin Kiermaier CF

2. Whit Merrifield 2B

3. Bo Bichette SS

4. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 1B

5. George Springer RF

6. Matt Chapman 3B

7. Brandon Belt DH

8. Daulton Varsho LF

9. A. Kirk/ D. Jansen C

[John_Havok]

I can see it now. Vlad and Bo both walk for whatever s***** picks they get and then posters will be like why did we wait to sell?!?

 

Could be worse, we could be sitting on the last half season of Shohei Ohtani and will be either A) trading him in the middle of their first real chance at a wildcard spot in years…or getting a comp pick when he walks at the end of the season.

[L54]

Could be worse, we could be sitting on the last half season of Shohei Ohtani and will be either A) trading him in the middle of their first real chance at a wildcard spot in years…or getting a comp pick when he walks at the end of the season.

 

Oof that’s true

[bones10]

We need to pull off a Chris archer to pirates type trade with Gausman. Team can probably still make playoffs if ryu/Manoah come back well, and if vlad/varsho pull their head out of their ass.

[jaysblue]

Jays are 7-8 so far which was supposed to be the start of the easy part of the schedule.

 

Even if they win 2 of 3 in the next two series against Chicago and Detroit, that's 11-10. Not good enough.

[Stangstag]

Jays are 7-8 so far which was supposed to be the start of the easy part of the schedule.

 

Even if they win 2 of 3 in the next two series against Chicago and Detroit, that's 11-10. Not good enough.

 

Need 2 sweeps then.

[Terminator]

Vlad, Whit, Bo and Gausman made the All-Star game as reserves.

[Terminator]

Jays are 7-8 so far which was supposed to be the start of the easy part of the schedule.

 

Even if they win 2 of 3 in the next two series against Chicago and Detroit, that's 11-10. Not good enough.

 

Correct. Seems like you are starting to understand this, though I sense that you are still being purposely obtuse about this lol.

[Stangstag]

Vlad, Whit, Bo and Gausman made the All-Star game as reserves.

 

Cool. Vlad doesn’t really deserve it but I guess since he’s doing the derby he gets a pass

[Spanky99]

Correct. Seems like you are starting to understand this, though I sense that you are still being purposely obtuse about this lol.

 

You're the target, lol.