General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[wilko]

It was worth him missing a chunk of spring so he could watch his wife crap out a child and be her emotional support animal while she breastfed. Those mammaries only happen once.

 

That's fine but don't sit in the hospital all day eating churros while you're waiting.

[Omar]

Catching is really tough on the knees. Carrying all that weight on those stubby legs along with catching duties does not bode well.

[BigCecil]

That's fine but don't sit in the hospital all day eating churros while you're waiting.

 

lol. Truly. I honestly thought he would be focused and at least a little bit leaner this year. AZ wanted Moreno instead for a few reasons.

[mellowgold]

I mean, if it's a huge problem Kirk just DHs more often and Jansen gets the majority of the catching. No sweat.

 

If Kirk is too big of a liability to hunch his fat ass down behind home plate at age 24, I think that's a bit of a problem. Less than ideal, we'll say.

 

Couple that with his flat tires on the basepaths and his bat better be REALLY good.

[Laika]

Well, the bat is REALLY good.

 

His CS rate was fine last year: 26% which was one point above league average of 25%.

He was also a good framer (+9 runs) and one of the better catchers at blocking pitches (+3 runs).

 

The baserunning will always be horrendous but there is actually less pressure on the bat than you'd think.

[keggy]

The purpose of spring training is to build up arm strength. Kirk will have to put in extra work to get up to playing speed.

[mellowgold]

Well, the bat is REALLY good.

 

His CS rate was fine last year: 26% which was one point above league average of 25%.

He was also a good framer (+9 runs) and one of the better catchers at blocking pitches (+3 runs).

 

The baserunning will always be horrendous but there is actually less pressure on the bat than you'd think.

 

I know he was good defensively last year. That's kind of my point. He better be decent back there because it's currently where a good amount of his value lives.

 

I'm just saying IF he's trending to more of a DH this soon, I don't think my attitude would be "no sweat".

 

A 120-130 wRC+ is really good when combined with plus defense but if at age 24 it's literally all he's bringing to the table other than pancakes, I'd like it to be more in the 150 range.

[jaysblue]

Kirk as a DH only bat this soon is definitely worrisome. While he has a good bat, I'm not crazy about it if he's only a DH.

 

He still should be alright behind the plate though.

[jaysblue]

Well, the bat is REALLY good.

 

His CS rate was fine last year: 26% which was one point above league average of 25%.

He was also a good framer (+9 runs) and one of the better catchers at blocking pitches (+3 runs).

 

The baserunning will always be horrendous but there is actually less pressure on the bat than you'd think.

 

His bat is definitely very good as a catcher. But strictly as a DH? I'm not that crazy unless he turns into a David Ortiz.

[Spanky99]

His bat is definitely very good as a catcher. But strictly as a DH? I'm not that crazy unless he turns into a David Ortiz.

 

He's not coming off catcher anytime soon, Sil. Don't sweat it, lol. Toronto will get full value, it's basically up to *El Capitan* if he wants to continue to play a position or not. He's still a very good catcher, and this is overblown for some dumn reason.

[Laika]

Did you know, the average DH in 2022 hit:

 

.236/.313/.397/.710

 

That's a worse OPS than 3B, 1B, LF, and RF

 

The bar offensively at DH as not as high as you think. Teams use it very often as a flex position nowadays. Also, there is an offensive penalty that is well documented (it's harder to hit when you don't play defense, for whatever reason).

[Pendleton]

Did you know, the average DH in 2022 hit:

 

.236/.313/.397/.710

 

That's a worse OPS than 3B, 1B, LF, and RF

 

The bar offensively at DH as not as high as you think. Teams use it very often as a flex position nowadays. Also, there is an offensive penalty that is well documented (it's harder to hit when you don't play defense, for whatever reason).

 

I would still have expected a better line but it's not shocking. Like you said, a lot of teams just using the spot to give starters a half day off or rotate bench bats into the lineup. There's a few exceptions but I doubt the list of hitters who had more than say 300 PA in the DH spot, would have been a very long one.

[Stangstag]

His bat is definitely very good as a catcher. But strictly as a DH? I'm not that crazy unless he turns into a David Ortiz.

 

His bat is definitely good enough to be a strict DH

[mellowgold]

Did you know, the average DH in 2022 hit:

 

.236/.313/.397/.710

 

That's a worse OPS than 3B, 1B, LF, and RF

 

The bar offensively at DH as not as high as you think. Teams use it very often as a flex position nowadays. Also, there is an offensive penalty that is well documented (it's harder to hit when you don't play defense, for whatever reason).

 

Those numbers are misleading though because like you said, most teams are using DH as a half day off for regular players who typically play in the field. If those are the numbers of a full-time exclusive DH who's clogging up the spot and not allowing others to get off their feet, that's pretty ugly.

 

I dunno, it's not how I would construct my team, anyway.

[Olerud363]

Did you know, the average DH in 2022 hit:

 

.236/.313/.397/.710

 

That's a worse OPS than 3B, 1B, LF, and RF

 

The bar offensively at DH as not as high as you think. Teams use it very often as a flex position nowadays. Also, there is an offensive penalty that is well documented (it's harder to hit when you don't play defense, for whatever reason).

 

I haven't looked into the studies on that, but right away I'd think it was because players are DHing a lot when they are half crippled. They get fully healthy and they play the field again. Seems Springer Dhs a lot when his elbow half worked. Same with Bryce Harper. Got to think that plays into it.

 

Totally agree with the main point though. If Kirk hit .290 .380 .440 as a DH, that would be great. Don't have to be a David Ortiz, and I wouldn't care if he clogged the spot for players that need a rest. If they need a rest, give them a rest. Half-crippled tired players are not great DHs.

[Jimcanuck]

Ya and in the Jays case there is so much positional flexibility and quality players that the crippled guys can be accommodated on the bench.

 

Problem with a full time DH, and I think Kirk would be even better at the plate if he didn't catch, is you now need to use up a roster spot for a backup C. So Lukes out, ? in.

 

Unless Jansen catches 140 games.

[Laika]

I haven't looked into the studies on that, but right away I'd think it was because players are DHing a lot when they are half crippled. They get fully healthy and they play the field again. Seems Springer Dhs a lot when his elbow half worked. Same with Bryce Harper. Got to think that plays into it.

 

Totally agree with the main point though. If Kirk hit .290 .380 .440 as a DH, that would be great. Don't have to be a David Ortiz, and I wouldn't care if he clogged the spot for players that need a rest. If they need a rest, give them a rest. Half-crippled tired players are not great DHs.

 

There are a few theories around the "DH penalty." Some of these are:

 

- when you don't play defense you aren't as mentally engaged with the game

- when you don't play defense you are physically not staying warm/active

- when you aren't on the field playing defense there is vision adjustment because the lightning on the field is different than in the dugout or in the tunnel

 

And then the one you mention. Injured or older players maybe playing half-hurt while DHing.

[Stangstag]

Ya and in the Jays case there is so much positional flexibility and quality players that the crippled guys can be accommodated on the bench.

 

Problem with a full time DH, and I think Kirk would be even better at the plate if he didn't catch, is you now need to use up a roster spot for a backup C. So Lukes out, ? in.

 

Unless Jansen catches 140 games.

 

Varsho is backup catcher

[Jimcanuck]

Varsho is backup catcher

 

A bd one, not sure the Jays would go there. Did he catch in ST?

 

edit - I checked, Varsho was exclusively an OF in ST. https://www.si.com/mlb/bluejays/analysis/blue-jays-notes-outfield-defense-varsho-catcher-outfielder-nate-pearson His catching days might be over

[G-Snarls]

A bd one, not sure the Jays would go there. Did he catch in ST?

 

edit - I checked, Varsho was exclusively an OF in ST. https://www.si.com/mlb/bluejays/analysis/blue-jays-notes-outfield-defense-varsho-catcher-outfielder-nate-pearson His catching days might be over

 

He is the emergency catcher only

 

No plans to use him as such unless a catastrophe occurs in-game

[Stangstag]

A bd one, not sure the Jays would go there. Did he catch in ST?

 

edit - I checked, Varsho was exclusively an OF in ST. https://www.si.com/mlb/bluejays/analysis/blue-jays-notes-outfield-defense-varsho-catcher-outfielder-nate-pearson His catching days might be over

 

He is the emergency catcher only

 

No plans to use him as such unless a catastrophe occurs in-game

 

There’s also no plans to make Kirk a full-time DH. Im not sure why we’re even having this discussion.

[Jimcanuck]

There’s also no plans to make Kirk a full-time DH. Im not sure why we’re even having this discussion.

 

Participate in discussion, lose, ask why are we having this discussion. This is what me wife does.

[Stangstag]

Participate in discussion, lose, ask why are we having this discussion. This is what me wife does.

 

Fine, i'll say IF the jays front office plans to make Kirk a full-time DH (which they won't) then they would probably decide to have Varsho as the backup catcher, or they'd find another viable option. Varsho has caught 70 games over the past 2 seasons, he's no slouch there. The option is available.

[Stangstag]

And I suppose we'll discover the answer if Kirk or Jansen get injured.

[G-Snarls]

Jays are playing in the ONLY night game today

 

Every other game has either already started or is about to

[Deadpool]

I miss the MLB Games Ticker

[Stangstag]

Jays are playing in the ONLY night game today

 

Every other game has either already started or is about to

 

Yeah im surprised at all the day games today, usually Thursdays are the day games. Jays with the 2pm game tomorrow so that’s nice

[Spanky99]

I miss the MLB Games Ticker

 

I hadn't noticed until you pointed it out, what happened to it?

[John_Havok]

I miss the MLB Games Ticker

 

Whre is it missing from?

[Spanky99]

Those numbers are misleading though because like you said, most teams are using DH as a half day off for regular players who typically play in the field. If those are the numbers of a full-time exclusive DH who's clogging up the spot and not allowing others to get off their feet, that's pretty ugly.

 

I dunno, it's not how I would construct my team, anyway.

 

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