General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Terminator]

Agreed the "white jays" thing is BS, but IMO the dismantling of the barrio was intentional.

 

How can you disconnect the two?

 

If the goal is to break up a latino clique how could you do so other than by subtracting latinos players and adding white players?

 

I guarantee you Ross Atkins was way more worried about his outfield defense and adding some left handed bats than he was what language the players speak.

[Jimcanuck]

How can you disconnect the two?

 

If the goal is to break up a latino clique how could you do so other than by subtracting latinos players and adding white players?

 

I guarantee you Ross Atkins was way more worried about his outfield defense and adding some left handed bats than he was what language the players speak.

 

Plenty of serious latino players out there. Soto and J-Rod are probably two of the best students of the game, and hard working as well. Teo and LGJ are talented goofballs.

 

Been some white goofballs on the Jays, names escape me. One was a redbull demon and another apparently fought Gibby. Ah - Lawrie and Shittenbrand.

[John_Havok]

Sign a long term with a pitcher with 5 yrs of control. Nah. Pitchers, man.

 

Strider got 6/75 from the Braves.

 

Its not crazy to lock them up for their arb years

[L54]

How can you disconnect the two?

 

If the goal is to break up a latino clique how could you do so other than by subtracting latinos players and adding white players?

 

I guarantee you Ross Atkins was way more worried about his outfield defense and adding some left handed bats than he was what language the players speak.

 

Lmao you could add players who aren’t sideshows regardless of race. Breaking up the barrio didn’t mean we are no longer employing latinos

 

Nobody said anything about the language they speak. Straw man argument

[Terminator]

Plenty of serious latino players out there. Soto and J-Rod are probably two of the best students of the game, and hard working as well. Teo and LGJ are talented goofballs.

 

Been some white goofballs on the Jays, names escape me. One was a redbull demon and another apparently fought Gibby. Ah - Lawrie and Shittenbrand.

 

Ok I guess but again, I have no idea where this "Teoscar is a goofball" idea got so prevalent.

[Terminator]

Lmao you could add players who aren’t sideshows regardless of race. Breaking up the barrio didn’t mean we are no longer employing latinos

 

Nobody said anything about the language they speak. Straw man argument

 

I swear you are retarded. StankyLeg JUST posted his "white jays" comment and you literally JUST replied to it. How on earth did you forget about that within the last 2 minutes?

 

Also, all of you are using the word "barrio" and that implies latino/spanish speaking. Come on.

 

Now, you and Jim can split hairs if you want and say something along the lines of "no, the barrio just meant getting rid of the goofball latino players, we could have still added serious latino players." But then you both go ahead and assume Teoscar is a goofball without any evidence other than the fact that he's Latino. lol

[Virgil_Hiltz]

Ok I guess but again, I have no idea where this "Teoscar is a goofball" idea got so prevalent.

 

Probably from his slow run to first base while admiring his singles off the top of the wall? That he can control but never...as for his fielding, well, I suspect he's just a lousy fielder.

[L54]

Nothing to do with race. KK and Belt bring a level of playoff experience and an understanding of what it takes to win that those guys really don’t.

 

I swear you are retarded. StankyLeg JUST posted his "white jays" comment and you literally JUST replied to it. How on earth did you forget about that within the last 2 minutes?

 

Also, all of you are using the word "barrio" and that implies latino/spanish speaking. Come on.

 

Now, you and Jim can split hairs if you want and say something along the lines of "no, the barrio just meant getting rid of the goofball latino players, we could have still added serious latino players." But then you both go ahead and assume Teoscar is a goofball without any evidence other than the fact that he's Latino. lol

 

I thought inbreds could read but I guess I was wrong. I said it has nothing to do with race.

 

I’m using barrio because that’s the name it was given lmao. Another hard concept apparently

 

We’ll split hairs just like you and assume the only reason they were moved is because Ross Atkins is a genius and fleeced AZ and SEA by taking on these guys who are a year from FA

 

Cry

[Brownie19]

I love how some people on here still claim they KNOW who's a winner and who's a clown and are now patting themselves on the back based on a single statement by Bo, with zero evidence that the changes to the characters within the clubhouse will improve the results. You guys must have clubhouse passes or some insider information.

 

Pretty strong opinions. Even a broke clock is right twice a day.

[L54]

As long as everyone has fun that’s all that matters!

 

-Brownie and Term

[Jimcanuck]

I love how some people on here still claim they KNOW who's a winner and who's a clown and are now patting themselves on the back based on a single statement by Bo, with zero evidence that the changes to the characters within the clubhouse will improve the results. You guys must have clubhouse passes or some insider information.

 

Pretty strong opinions. Even a broke clock is right twice a day.

 

The Bo stuff IS pretty strong evidence

[Laika]

Probably from his slow run to first base while admiring his singles off the top of the wall? That he can control but never...as for his fielding, well, I suspect he's just a lousy fielder.

 

He makes enough poor decisions on the field that you do legitimately start to question his attitude in some ways.

 

Yeah, a number of balls off the wall that he admires.

Consistently bad defense. Lazy defense. Bad defensive numbers despite good physical tools.

Baserunning blunders.

 

The guy has 84th percentile sprint speed, 87th percentile arm strength, and 95th percentile max exit velocity. By tools, he should be a five tool stud but because of "goofiness" or whatever you want to call it he's closer to a DH.

[Brownie19]

I thought inbreds could read but I guess I was wrong. I said it has nothing to do with race.

 

I’m using barrio because that’s the name it was given lmao. Another hard concept apparently

 

We’ll split hairs just like you and assume the only reason they were moved is because Ross Atkins is a genius and fleeced AZ and SEA by taking on these guys who are a year from FA

Cry

 

I'm not sure how you dismiss this - or the reality that both players had major flaws in their games as major reasons why they traded them both. Those both seem like valid options to me. For all anyone knows, it was 90% because they were becoming FA's and had holes in the game and 10% to adjust the 'culture'. The culture thing is really difficult to nail down.

[Terminator]

Probably from his slow run to first base while admiring his singles off the top of the wall? That he can control but never...as for his fielding, well, I suspect he's just a lousy fielder.

 

I don't remember many wall ball singles from him. I specifically remember it once when he was playing with a hurt foot. Agreed on his fielding.

[Jimcanuck]

I'm not sure how you dismiss this - or the reality that both players had major flaws in their games as major reasons why they traded them both. Those both seem like valid options to me. For all anyone knows, it was 90% because they were becoming FA's and had holes in the game and 10% to adjust the 'culture'. The culture thing is really difficult to nail down.

 

It is in fact very common to trade players due to their clubhouse or off field behaviour. The Bo comments do suggest that element was at play.

[Brownie19]

He makes enough poor decisions on the field that you do legitimately start to question his attitude in some ways.

 

Yeah, a number of balls off the wall that he admires.

Consistently bad defense. Lazy defense. Bad defensive numbers despite good physical tools.

Baserunning blunders.

 

The guy has 84th percentile sprint speed, 87th percentile arm strength, and 95th percentile max exit velocity. By tools, he should be a five tool stud but because of "goofiness" or whatever you want to call it he's closer to a DH.

 

I think you could argue that focus and mental toughness are completely different then culture, attitude and goofiness. It's hard to know exactly why the physical tools don't produce results - but it happens all the time. Tyler O'Neill has similar skills to Teo and isn't getting results either. Why isn't he a 5 tool CFer? Is he a poor character guy with a s***** attitude?

[The_DH]

How can you disconnect the two?

 

If the goal is to break up a latino clique how could you do so other than by subtracting latinos players and adding white players?

 

I guarantee you Ross Atkins was way more worried about his outfield defense and adding some left handed bats than he was what language the players speak.

 

They could bring in African American players. We've had a few good ones: Barfield, Moseby, McGriff.

[Laika]

I think you could argue that focus and mental toughness are completely different then culture, attitude and goofiness. It's hard to know exactly why the physical tools don't produce results - but it happens all the time. Tyler O'Neill has similar skills to Teo and isn't getting results either. Why isn't he a 5 tool CFer? Is he a poor character guy with a s***** attitude?

 

what the f*** are you trying to say? that's the dumbest thing anybody has ever written about baseball, ever.

 

keep tyler o'neill's name out of your mouth. he is a +6 UZR/150 defender in his career with +9.2 BsR

 

Teoscar is a minus 6 /150 defender and a negative baserunner in his career

 

I would cut my dick off if Tyler O'Neill ever took a single play off

[Brownie19]

It is in fact very common to trade players due to their clubhouse or off field behaviour. The Bo comments do suggest that element was at play.

 

Bo literally said "we need more maturity" and then said "not that we were immature" - which seems pretty contradictory. Maturity could also simply mean they need more experience playing when we are expected to win, or we need to play more playoff games (which seems accurate, as he references the teams young players). Yes he did suggest they need more professionalism, but he didn't cite who needs that - maybe he's talking about himself, or several other young players on the team. He literally notes that he doesn't know if that was a factor in moving Teo and Gurriel.

 

Those who have been suggesting that obviously want to take Bo's 5 sentences and claim the W.

 

Is there potential that professionalism and changing the clubhouse culture were at play in those trades? Of course there is. But I have no idea if it was 90% factor, or 5% factor. Nobody does.

[Stangstag]

I swear you are retarded. StankyLeg JUST posted his "white jays" comment and you literally JUST replied to it. How on earth did you forget about that within the last 2 minutes?

 

Also, all of you are using the word "barrio" and that implies latino/spanish speaking. Come on.

 

Now, you and Jim can split hairs if you want and say something along the lines of "no, the barrio just meant getting rid of the goofball latino players, we could have still added serious latino players." But then you both go ahead and assume Teoscar is a goofball without any evidence other than the fact that he's Latino. lol

 

I didn't really mean it in a bad way... just an observation. Actually more of a fact really. You can't deny that the jays have been bringing in almost exclusively white players the last year and a bit.

 

Yall need to chill. Who gives a f*** if the team is all latinos or all white or all black players even. Just give me a world series.

 

Also, denying that work cliques are a thing makes me feel like you've never worked at a large company.

[Terminator]

In Gurriel's defense, he was a clown in the dugout but seemed to play like his hair was on fire when he was out in the field.

 

He seemed to hustle plenty and was always diving in the field, charging the ball and firing it back in, hustling and diving head first on the base paths, etc.

 

But outside of his OF arm he just wasn't very good at any of it.

[Stangstag]

Also FWIW I loved Teoscar despite his dumb blunders. Bought his shirsey last year even. Definitely sad he got traded but I understand it likely makes the team better.

[Brownie19]

what the f*** are you trying to say? that's the dumbest thing anybody has ever written about baseball, ever.

 

keep tyler o'neill's name out of your mouth. he is a +6 UZR/150 defender in his career with +9.2 BsR

 

Teoscar is a minus 6 /150 defender and a negative baserunner in his career

 

I would cut my dick off if Tyler O'Neill ever took a single play off

 

Holy f*** - get off your high horse. Pretend I left out the example if you want - I'm just saying the reason why players don't get the most out of their tools might be factors like focus and mental toughness (or some other s***) - which doesn't always have to do with their character, and attitude. But I must be wrong - clearly Teo doesn't work hard and is a lazy POS who's attitude eroded the clubhouse last year. He lucked his way from a guy who got traded away for nothing and turned himself into a 130 wRC+ masher.

 

If you want - O'Neill came to mind simply because he has all kinds of tools - yet had a 101 wRC+ last year and to date, only has 1 above average season under his belt through age 27. Also if you compare O'Neill's 2022 BsR and DEF to Teo's 2021 BsR and DEF, they aren't far off. Yes I'm cherry picking and yes I'd acknowledge that O'Neill is generally a better base runner and defender. f***ing relax.

[Brownie19]

I didn't really mean it in a bad way... just an observation. Actually more of a fact really. You can't deny that the jays have been bringing in almost exclusively white players the last year and a bit.

 

Yall need to chill. Who gives a f*** if the team is all latinos or all white or all black players even. Just give me a world series.

 

Also, denying that work cliques are a thing makes me feel like you've never worked at a large company.

 

Huh? Who's denying that? I think the argument is whether the cliques was causing issues with the teams results or not. Surely there are all kinds of cliques within a large company that don't cause any harm.

[Carlos Danger]

They could bring in African American players. We've had a few good ones: Barfield, Moseby, McGriff.

 

Well, two out of three anyway. They traded McGriff for a culture change also.

[Laika]

Holy f*** - get off your high horse. Pretend I left out the example if you want - I'm just saying the reason why players don't get the most out of their tools might be factors like focus and mental toughness (or some other s***) - which doesn't always have to do with their character, and attitude. But I must be wrong - clearly Teo doesn't work hard and is a lazy POS who's attitude eroded the clubhouse last year. He lucked his way from a guy who got traded away for nothing and turned himself into a 130 wRC+ masher.

 

If you want - O'Neill came to mind simply because he has all kinds of tools - yet had a 101 wRC+ last year and to date, only has 1 above average season under his belt through age 27. Also if you compare O'Neill's 2022 BsR and DEF to Teo's 2021 BsR and DEF, they aren't far off. Yes I'm cherry picking and yes I'd acknowledge that O'Neill is generally a better base runner and defender. f***ing relax.

 

just say that you were wrong and apologize to Tyler

 

no need for this block of pure cope

[L54]

Is the r word acceptable speech on this platform?

[Jimcanuck]

Is the r word acceptable speech on this platform?

 

no and there's never a valid reason to us it, either

[L54]

no and there's never a valid reason to us it, either

 

Agreed

[Terminator]

Are the mods deleting my posts? lol

 

I didn't even use the r-word in the last one.

 

My freeze peach is under attack. Halp