General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[Laika]

Yeah we also just got rid of our consensus top 3 prospect (#1 on some lists). Barreira probably shoots up in the rankings this season.

 

Also how does someone like Barger, with his stellar Milb numbers and generous major-league projections get placed outside the top 100? Just because he's not a big name?

 

BA is a scouting first publication and they anchor to draft-time opinions. They don't tend to shoot statistical performers up their rankings quickly.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Barger on some other lists.

[G-Snarls]

It doesn't take long to rebuild a farm system, and can be done within the time before Bo/Vlad are FA eligible. Not knowing the discussions that have taken place of course, but it would not surprise me if the Jays have to move forward with the expectation both Bo and Vlad will test FA.

 

Kirk graduated

Moreno traded

Austin Martin traded

 

This is the result

 

Hopefully Bonilla works himself into the top 100

[Jimcanuck]

BA is a scouting first publication and they anchor to draft-time opinions. They don't tend to shoot statistical performers up their rankings quickly.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Barger on some other lists.

 

Barger is on the MLB list I believe.

[Brownie19]

Between Barriera, Barger, Orelvis, Zulueta, Gabby Martinez, Toman, Doughty, Macko, Santos, Kasevich - I have to think we'll see at least 4 more enter Top 100 lists this season. Our system still has a lot of talent in it.

[Laika]

Between Barriera, Barger, Orelvis, Zulueta, Gabby Martinez, Toman, Doughty, Macko, Santos, Kasevich - I have to think we'll see at least 4 more enter Top 100 lists this season. Our system still has a lot of talent in it.

 

Personally I think Barger is a top 100 prospect.

Barriera has a case but it might be early.

Orelvis has a case but I don't think he deserves it anymore. He's closer to 150. Warts are big.

Zulu has a case but probably too much relief risk to make it.

 

I don't think anyone else has an argument to be in there.

[John_Havok]

Personally I think Barger is a top 100 prospect.

Barriera has a case but it might be early.

Orelvis has a case but I don't think he deserves it anymore. He's closer to 150. Warts are big.

Zulu has a case but probably too much relief risk to make it.

 

I don't think anyone else has an argument to be in there.

 

Toman would be another that's likely just outside the top 100 and could probably be argued to be there in the 80-100 range. It's not like there's a massive talent gap from 80-130 anyways. Most of them would rank as a FV 40

[John_Havok]

Some guy just posted this as a lineup. Sure, it does't truly matter much but im thinking it's close.

 

[Stangstag]

Some guy just posted this as a lineup. Sure, it does't truly matter much but im thinking it's close.

 

 

Kirk doesn't get nearly enough respect. Almost every mock lineup I see have Varsho and/or Chapman hitting ahead of him.

 

People are also being a bit bullish on Varsho wanting him in the top half of the lineup. I think he fits better as the 6/7 hitter.

[Stangstag]

I'd personally like to see Kirk hitting either 2nd or 4th with Bichette in the other spot.

 

1. Springer

2. Kirk

3. Guerrero

4. Bichette

5. Belt/Varsho

6. Chapman

7. Belt/Varsho

8. Merrifield

9. Keirmaier

[The Cats Ass]

Some guy just posted this as a lineup. Sure, it does't truly matter much but im thinking it's close.

 

 

I like putting Kirk and Belt back to back. Stick the roadblocks together.

[Stangstag]

I like putting Kirk and Belt back to back. Stick the roadblocks together.

 

Sure, just move em up a couple spots in the lineup

[John_Havok]

Kirk doesn't get nearly enough respect. Almost every mock lineup I see have Varsho and/or Chapman hitting ahead of him.

 

People are also being a bit bullish on Varsho wanting him in the top half of the lineup. I think he fits better as the 6/7 hitter.

 

I tend to agree, though he does have more power than youd typically see in that spot. I'm trying to picture him hitting behind Kirk and Belt, but then that kind of speed behind 2 of the bottom 25 runners in MLB is kind of a weird idea.

 

I also think Belt will be hitting 4th behind Guerrero, then Chapman or Kirk.

 

Yeah, i think Vlad, Belt and Kirk all hitting together makes sense, get the slow guys all up there at once. Then Chapman can start it off again with Varsho behind him. For all of Chapman's faults, speed isn't one of them. 77th percentile in 2022.

Edited January 18, 2023 by John_Havok

[Stangstag]

I tend to agree, though he does have more power than youd typically see in that spot. I'm trying to picture him hitting behind Kirk and Belt, but then that kind of speed behind 2 of the bottom 25 runners in MLB is kind of a weird idea.

 

I also think Belt will be hitting 4th behind Guerrero, then Chapman or Kirk.

 

Yeah, i think Vlad, Belt and Kirk all hitting together makes sense, get the slow guys all up there at once. Then Chapman can start it off again with Varsho behind him. For all of Chapman's faults, speed isn't one of them. 77th percentile in 2022.

 

I don't think this really matters much. Not as much as giving the best hitters more at bats. Kirk/Springer/Vlad/Bichette should all be in the top 4. The rest can be tinkered with since Varsho/Chapman/Belt all have similar projections. If Belt rebounds to his 2020/2021 numbers then he gets to hit somewhere in the top 4.

[Brownie19]

Your best hitters hit 1st, 2nd and 4th - that's Springer, Vlad and Kirk. Next best hitter bats 3rd (Bo). Then you need to split up the lefties.

 

Springer

Vlad

Bo

Kirk

Belt

Chapman

Varsho

Merrifield

KK

[Brownie19]

Personally I think Barger is a top 100 prospect.

Barriera has a case but it might be early.

Orelvis has a case but I don't think he deserves it anymore. He's closer to 150. Warts are big.

Zulu has a case but probably too much relief risk to make it.

 

I don't think anyone else has an argument to be in there.

 

I was suggesting they'll enter the Top 100 'this season'. I think there's certainly a possibility that the others I noted play there way into the Top 100.

[jerb]

 

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[glory]

This is kind of s***** considering we were hoping to have a good farm system to sustain our level of success. It's scary to think what our roster could look like once the Bo/Vladdy extensions kick in. That is unless we are expecting to be a top 5 payroll yearly going forward .

 

The Jays do need to start developing that next wave of talent, preferably around 2025 when Vlad/Bo's time might be coming to an end, but a lot can happen (good and bad) for a farm system in a year. Overall, 2022 was a down year for the system as a whole aside from a couple of bright spots (Tiedemann, Barger) so things might not look as good now. The Jays also traded a whole bunch of prospects for big league help in the past year and a half, including 3 first round picks (Groshans, Martin, Hoglund), a top 10 prospect in the game (Moreno), and a former top 100 prospect (SWR). There are still enough intriguing prospects in the system to expect better outcomes in 2023.

[Laika]

The Jays do need to start developing that next wave of talent, preferably around 2025 when Vlad/Bo's time might be coming to an end, but a lot can happen (good and bad) for a farm system in a year. Overall, 2022 was a down year for the system as a whole aside from a couple of bright spots (Tiedemann, Barger) so things might not look as good now. The Jays also traded a whole bunch of prospects for big league help in the past year and a half, including 3 first round picks (Groshans, Martin, Hoglund), a top 10 prospect in the game (Moreno), and a former top 100 prospect (SWR). There are still enough intriguing prospects in the system to expect better outcomes in 2023.

 

I don't think it was a bad year for the farm system.

 

The pitching depth in AAA + Nate Pearson completely s*** the bed but those guys weren't really prospect listers anyway. Lots of talent in the system took solid steps forward in 2022.

[Stangstag]

Your best hitters hit 1st, 2nd and 4th - that's Springer, Vlad and Kirk. Next best hitter bats 3rd (Bo). Then you need to split up the lefties.

 

Springer

Vlad

Bo

Kirk

Belt

Chapman

Varsho

Merrifield

KK

 

Fully down for this except for the fact Vlad seems to like hitting 3rd better. Fine. Just swap him with Bo or Kirk and that’s a perfect lineup

[kevb]

First post. New here, but against RHP I would like to see this sort of lineup if Belt is anywhere near his 2020/2021 form.

 

Springer

Vlad

Belt

Bo

Kirk

Varsho

Jansen

Biggio (Espinal/Merrifield)

KK

 

This way it pretty much forces the opposition to reconsider using a lefty out of the pen as the lefty will only face at most one LHB and will have to face at least 2 RHB. Biggio and KK will be PH for if a lefty is brought in (Espinal and Merrifield, respectively).

 

Just my thoughts on lineup construction, as it stands today.

[Brownie19]

First post. New here, but against RHP I would like to see this sort of lineup if Belt is anywhere near his 2020/2021 form.

 

Springer

Vlad

Belt

Bo

Kirk

Varsho

Jansen

Biggio (Espinal/Merrifield)

KK

 

This way it pretty much forces the opposition to reconsider using a lefty out of the pen as the lefty will only face at most one LHB and will have to face at least 2 RHB. Biggio and KK will be PH for if a lefty is brought in (Espinal and Merrifield, respectively).

 

Just my thoughts on lineup construction, as it stands today.

 

Welcome to the board!

[wilko]

I'd roll with this one:

 

Springer

Varsho

Vladdy

Kirk

Bo

Belt

Jansen

Merrifield/Espi/Biggio

KK

[kevb]

Welcome to the board!

 

Thank you! Looking forward to Jays talk, and the upcoming season.

[Stangstag]

I'd roll with this one:

 

Springer

Varsho

Vladdy

Kirk

Bo

Belt

Jansen

Merrifield/Espi/Biggio

KK

 

Extremely high on Varsho??

[Jimcanuck]

Your best hitters hit 1st, 2nd and 4th - that's Springer, Vlad and Kirk. Next best hitter bats 3rd (Bo). Then you need to split up the lefties.

 

Springer

Vlad

Bo

Kirk

Belt

Chapman

Varsho

Merrifield

KK

 

i like this one

[jaysblue]

In an ideal world, you don't want guys like Kirk and Belt clogging up the bases ahead of guys like Varsho. Definitely will be interesting to see how the lineup rolls.

[The_DH]

In an ideal world, you don't want guys like Kirk and Belt clogging up the bases ahead of guys like Varsho. Definitely will be interesting to see how the lineup rolls.

 

keep in mind as well that Kirk won't be playing 150 games -- you have Janssen to think of.

[Laika]

Varsho had three triples last year.

 

"clogging up the bases" is mostly a meme

 

like, hitting behind Kirk might stop him from getting one triple all season

[Stangstag]

Varsho had three triples last year.

 

"clogging up the bases" is mostly a meme

 

like, hitting behind Kirk might stop him from getting one triple all season

 

Yeah im kinda shocked that people are actually thinking its an issue. Give the best hitters most at bats. Very simple

[Jimcanuck]

Yeah im kinda shocked that people are actually thinking its an issue. Give the best hitters most at bats. Very simple

 

It's not optimal for Varsho to be hitting behind Kirk or Belt. It's not an issue, but a consideration. It would probably result in Varsho losing several doubles and a couple of triples.