Around Baseball 2023

[Frenchsoup]

a Manoah, Nootbar trade makes sense for both sides. Jays just gotta figure out how much the Cards love Manoah. Because they know, the jays love Nootbar and have a gaping LF need. Lots of good players they could get for LF....don't get desperate but attack your needs. If you love Nootbar or Donovan do it Shatkins. Sign back Ryu he finished strong.

[Brownie19]

If you told me Lance Lynn and Kyle Gibson were some of the first arms off the board, I would say you're crazy. Cardinals could have targeted better arms.

 

Looks like Paul DeJong landed himself a starting shortstop gig with the White Sox. Yikes!

 

The reality is we won't know whether these early Cards moves were a good idea or a bad idea until the rest of the offseason plays out. Sometimes jumping the market makes a lot of sense and you can look like a genius, other times, it kicks you in the nuts. If the Cards are adding Lynn and Gibson to be their #3/#4 or #4/#5 starters, then I don't see any issue with these signings at those costs and durations. Let's all remember that Taijaun Walker signed for 4 years $72M last year and Jameson Taillon signed for 4 years $68M. Give me Lance Lynn on a 1 year deal all day long over that. That said, there does seem to be a lot of interesting arms available - several of which you can probably get on a 1 year deal, so maybe we'll look back and laugh at the Cards.

 

I'm not surprised to see the White Sox sign DeJong. He was having a very good year last year (like a 2.5 WAR pace) until he was traded - then everything went for a s***. White Sox won't want to spend much, given how bad they'll be this year, so they need cheap fillers - ideally ones who could have solid years and fetch them something at the deadline. They're just looking for some lightning in a bottle.

[Eat My Shatkins]

Manoah for Nootbar? That seems like some wishful thinking by some Jays fans.

[Spanky__99]

Manoah for Nootbar? That seems like some wishful thinking by some Jays fans.

 

It's not even in the same stratosphere, lol.

[Frenchsoup]

Seems pretty close to me

[Ehjays]

[Frenchsoup]

Manoah can be a bulldog out there when hes on. So i dunno how the other teams value him. It should be pretty high though.

[Spanky__99]

Seems pretty close to me

 

This is not close Frenchy...

 

 

[Ehjays]

[Spanky__99]

 

Like clockwork, lol.

[Frenchsoup]

just sign Winky Dink instead then

[jaysblue]

The reality is we won't know whether these early Cards moves were a good idea or a bad idea until the rest of the offseason plays out. Sometimes jumping the market makes a lot of sense and you can look like a genius, other times, it kicks you in the nuts. If the Cards are adding Lynn and Gibson to be their #3/#4 or #4/#5 starters, then I don't see any issue with these signings at those costs and durations. Let's all remember that Taijaun Walker signed for 4 years $72M last year and Jameson Taillon signed for 4 years $68M. Give me Lance Lynn on a 1 year deal all day long over that. That said, there does seem to be a lot of interesting arms available - several of which you can probably get on a 1 year deal, so maybe we'll look back and laugh at the Cards.

 

I'm not surprised to see the White Sox sign DeJong. He was having a very good year last year (like a 2.5 WAR pace) until he was traded - then everything went for a s***. White Sox won't want to spend much, given how bad they'll be this year, so they need cheap fillers - ideally ones who could have solid years and fetch them something at the deadline. They're just looking for some lightning in a bottle.

 

Love how my post gets a paragraph response from you, but none of the others did earlier.

 

Obviously, it's still early in the offseason yes, but given the amount of SPs available, shocked the Cards couldn't have aimed a bit higher especially this early in the offseason. But yeah having Lynn and Gibson as your No. 4/5 guys in the rotation on one-year deals isn't a terrible thing. They both have limited upside or hardly at all given their ages, but they both can be durable and give the Cards 1.5 - 2 WAR or so each possibly. There is still time left in the offseason for the Cards to add a front of the rotation starter. If they only add Lynn and Gibson this offseason, would be disappointing. Still shocked to see them sign BOTH in the same day however.

 

As for DeJong, a bottom seeded team like the White Sox or Athletics or Rockies are always the perfect fits for players like him. They need cheap fillers and DeJong if he gets hot does have some power, so they get a warm body and a possible trade candidate at the deadline if he's having success over the first 3-4 months of the season.

[Stangstag]

 

Embarrassing franchise, don’t really care about their regular season success. The fans deserve better. All 15 of them

[Spanky__99]

Pham says he has 10 teams interested in him, and he wants a full time gig, pass. I'm holding out hope of a pillow deal from Teo.

[max silver]

Love how my post gets a paragraph response from you, but none of the others did earlier.

 

Obviously, it's still early in the offseason yes, but given the amount of SPs available, shocked the Cards couldn't have aimed a bit higher especially this early in the offseason. But yeah having Lynn and Gibson as your No. 4/5 guys in the rotation on one-year deals isn't a terrible thing. They both have limited upside or hardly at all given their ages, but they both can be durable and give the Cards 1.5 - 2 WAR or so each possibly. There is still time left in the offseason for the Cards to add a front of the rotation starter. If they only add Lynn and Gibson this offseason, would be disappointing. Still shocked to see them sign BOTH in the same day however.

 

As for DeJong, a bottom seeded team like the White Sox or Athletics or Rockies are always the perfect fits for players like him. They need cheap fillers and DeJong if he gets hot does have some power, so they get a warm body and a possible trade candidate at the deadline if he's having success over the first 3-4 months of the season.

 

Weren't you the guy who was constantly grousing about how the Blue Jays should have signed Gibson instead of Bassitt for much of the second half of the season? Now you are saying he's be fine as a number 5 starter on a pitching starved team like the Cardinals when he was supposed to be better than the Blue Jays number 3 starter in one of baseball's best rotations. Great consistency dude, keep it up.

[Stangstag]

Weren't you the guy who was constantly grousing about how the Blue Jays should have signed Gibson instead of Bassitt for much of the second half of the season? Now you are saying he's be fine as a number 5 starter on a pitching starved team like the Cardinals when he was supposed to be better than the Blue Jays number 3 starter in one of baseball's best rotations. Great consistency dude, keep it up.

 

Please stop attacking Jaysblue, he does his best to remain insufferable. Its the schtick

[connorp]

Please stop attacking Jaysblue, he does his best to remain insufferable. Its the schtick

 

Your established schtick now is white knighting for the man.

[Laika]

Pham says he has 10 teams interested in him, and he wants a full time gig, pass. I'm holding out hope of a pillow deal from Teo.

 

I don't think any good bat needs to settle for a pillow deal this off-season.

 

Best hope for something similar to that is just one of the good geezers on a one year deal.

[jaysblue]

Weren't you the guy who was constantly grousing about how the Blue Jays should have signed Gibson instead of Bassitt for much of the second half of the season? Now you are saying he's be fine as a number 5 starter on a pitching starved team like the Cardinals when he was supposed to be better than the Blue Jays number 3 starter in one of baseball's best rotations. Great consistency dude, keep it up.

 

Mr. Condescending is back and cherry picking as he does best!

 

Yeah I will admit and own up to saying back in June/July that the Orioles signing of Gibson for one-year looked better than signing Bassitt for three years at the time. Gibson got off to a better start over the first couple of months and then came crashing down. Bassitt kept getting stronger as the season went on. So yeah my perception and opinion has changed since then. So what is the problem? Am I the only one who flip-flops on here when it comes to players or trades? Just from looking at Fangraphs, both Bassitt and Gibson finished with 2.6 WAR. Right now, I still prefer Bassitt but we still have two more years with him. Orioles now have washed their hands clean of Gibson.

 

All I stated is that the Cards could have aimed higher earlier in the offseason and that these signings weren't really that exciting, the same as every other poster said. Though you decide to dig up something I said back in June in order to create a new argument and to make yourself sound superior. You're really a sad person dude. Need to just relax. It's a baseball forum. Stop trying to pick arguments with everyone on here just for the sake of it.

[jaysblue]

Please stop attacking Jaysblue, he does his best to remain insufferable. Its the schtick

 

It's kind of sad that you can't even make comments about other FA signings or trades in the offseason threads, without one of Max or Brownie trying to pick an argument to one-up you. To be honest, they're the ones who remain insufferable and the reasons why this message board doesn't get any new posters and why some posters have stopped posting on here frequently. Not a good look having condescending posters on here thinking they own the place and superior to everyone else.

[jaysblue]

Pham says he has 10 teams interested in him, and he wants a full time gig, pass. I'm holding out hope of a pillow deal from Teo.

 

I prefer Teo over Pham for sure, but I could see Teo possibly getting 2 or 3 years from someone, we'll see.

 

I could see guys like Brantley, Gallo, Grichuk, Rosario, Profar, and Winker signing a 1-year pillow deal.

[jaysblue]

How much do you think Jason Heyward will get? Think he would be a great fit here as a bat to platoon in LF/DH and someone who could backup Varsho in CF. Posted 2.2 WAR last season and hit 15 HR's with a .269/.340/.473 slash line and 121 wRC+ in 377 PA.

[MikeM3]

How much do you think Jason Heyward will get? Think he would be a great fit here as a bat to platoon in LF/DH and someone who could backup Varsho in CF. Posted 2.2 WAR last season and hit 15 HR's with a .269/.340/.473 slash line and 121 wRC+ in 377 PA.

 

Don't trust him with the Mattingly hitting system

[wamco]

I ll say 1/7 for Heyward and I’m interested.

[Brownie19]

It's kind of sad that you can't even make comments about other FA signings or trades in the offseason threads, without one of Max or Brownie trying to pick an argument to one-up you. To be honest, they're the ones who remain insufferable and the reasons why this message board doesn't get any new posters and why some posters have stopped posting on here frequently. Not a good look having condescending posters on here thinking they own the place and superior to everyone else.

 

Are you OK man? You offered an opinion and I offered an different view on it. That's not an argument. I just said that it's not a forgone conclusion that the Cards made bad decisions to sign Lynn & Gibson early in the offseason. Sometimes the approach to "jump the gun" and target/sign guys early on can work and we won't really know until the offseason is over.

 

Could they have aimed higher? Maybe. Or maybe they expect a very competitive market and felt some of the short term SP with higher upside (let's say Lugo, Maeda, Bauer?) may get into bidding wars that they wouldn't win? Maybe they think guys like Montas, Severino, German, Paxton are too risky and wanted to grab guys with a better track record of health? Or maybe the Cards are f***ed - time will tell.

 

I am curious to see if Lynn has anything left. Velo down, HRs up last year isn't a good recipe. He's had a really good career and I think there's a decent chance for a dead cat bounce. We'll see.

 

And sorry I don't respond to all your posts? Sometimes life gets in the way. Don't jump off a cliff when someone doesn't share the same viewpoint as you.

[Brownie19]

I ll say 1/7 for Heyward and I’m interested.

 

Yeah I think it would need to be something along those lines. He's such a risk. The guy was set to retire last year before some of the Dodgers reached out to him and begged the GM to give him a spring training invite and then he goes on to have a very solid season (although his statcast page is blue). His defense, BsR and speed continue to decline, which really lowers his floor to someone who could be below replacement level. His bat is a complete crapshoot. He seems to change his stance and approach annually and you really have no idea what you'll get. He went from a 131 wRC+ in a platoon role in 2020 to a 70 and 61 wRC+ the follow 2 seasons (and essentially repeated that cycle in 2015, 2016 and 2017).

 

Whoever signs him has to be prepared for the possibility they are just burning that money and may be releasing him by July.

[wamco]

We’ll see how postseason plays out. It seems we have more money to spend than I anticipated. If we have like 40 to spend though, I think Atkins will have to take a risk at one of the holes and I think I’m ok with Heyward being that guy as a good d, good speed, intangibles LF vs RHP

[deanmike]

Seems pretty close to me

 

Your Riley Greene and Javier Baez for Bo proposal was way off too. Tigers would have to add more on Greene to get Bo, not the other way around (Baez is an extreme negative value player).

[Spanky__99]

I don't think any good bat needs to settle for a pillow deal this off-season.

 

Best hope for something similar to that is just one of the good geezers on a one year deal.

 

If that ends up the case, then so be it.

[Jimcanuck]

Justin Turner is a good geezer, played 57 innings at 3B in 2023, after 507 innings for the Dodgers in 2022.

 

Not saying he should be the regular 3B, but if the internal options suck, he might be an acceptable fallback, especially if the Jays replace Bo with a Hoerner or Swanson at SS