Around Baseball 2023

[Brownie19]

Don't even bother with Max. He's too busy rimming Ross to know any better. Some people just defend and argue just for the sake of it. Fact is that in eight years and with an upper tier payroll, this management team has accomplished nothing with no evidence of sustainable winning in the future.

 

Except it hasn't been 8 years with an upper tier payroll - not was it ever reasonable to expect them to win much of anything in the first few years, given the state of the team when AA left. You can complain about playoff wins all you want, heck, join connorp in the theory they don't know how to build a team that wins in the playoffs, but the truth is we've had 4 straight years with a record above .500 - which is something the Jays haven't done since 1993. The team certainly looks positioned to continue that trend of the next couple of seasons. I'm curious what fans thought sustainable winning would look like? Despite what connorp tells you, the playoffs are a crapshoot.

[Brownie19]

What's the story on Spencer Turnbull? Anything left in that arm?

[Laika]

What's the story on Spencer Turnbull? Anything left in that arm?

 

98 stuff+ and 100 location+ in his 31 2023 innings

 

those figures were 107 and 102 in his 2021 small sample

and 104/101 in 2020

 

he seemed cooked in 2023 that's for sure. velo and stuff decline is notable. got shelled in AAA.

 

not sure he would be worth the gamble of an MLB roster spot for Toronto

 

but 98/100 is close to viable for a SP. there are quality innings eaters with that kind of profile.

[TheHurl]

What's the story on Spencer Turnbull? Anything left in that arm?

 

His TJS was in 2022. You can possibly ignore his 2023 numbers. He got his option year returned to him in his injury fights, but in doing so ruined his relationship with the Tigers. Turnbull with his option probably has value but he also switched to Boras mid season last year who would likely seek a better situation for him where he would get a better opportunity

[Sorrow]

When it comes to WAR for catchers it’s worth also considering Baseball Prospectus WAR which also really likes Martin and McCann which I think puts both of them ahead of Mauer and Molina and I think it’s fairly significant

[hanton]

Give it a f***ing rest.

 

a good way to test it is to reduce the clock to 5 seconds...watch elbows blow

[Ehjays]

[BTS]

Cardinals sign Kyle Gibson for 1/12. Lynn, Mikolas, and Gibson now locked in. I’m pretty sure Mozeliak is trolling their fans.

[Dick_Pole]

bWAR > fWAR under all circumstances because Baseball Reference is slightly less spammy than Fangraphs and I refuse to give my computer AIDS just to win an online nerd argument.

[Dick_Pole]

Yeah I really don't bother any more with some of these guys. It's not worth it. They've made this message board insufferable at times and are the reason why we aren't getting new posters and why some posters have stopped posting as much as they have. It's good to have discussion and debate respectfully, but guys like Max love to just argue and act snobbish for the sake of it.

 

I post just infrequently enough to never remember who I have a beef with on here, except for the occasional swipe at Jim. I find it to be a good spot with this forum. Frankly a lot of you morph into one profile in my mind, especially all the guys with "jays" in their name.

[wilko]

Cardinals sign Kyle Gibson for 1/12. Lynn, Mikolas, and Gibson now locked in. I’m pretty sure Mozeliak is trolling their fans.

 

That's a disturbing rotation.

[Laika]

Cardinals sign Kyle Gibson for 1/12. Lynn, Mikolas, and Gibson now locked in. I’m pretty sure Mozeliak is trolling their fans.

 

omfg

 

Lynn and Gibson is pretty gross and adding them both to a Mikolas rotation is puke. Zack Thompson, Steven Matz, Mathew Liberatore, Sem Robberse, Adam Kloffenstein.

 

It's the ugliest rotation in MLB history. Not the WORST in history just the ugliest.

 

almost NO upside beyond league average innings eater performances. I think they best they can hope for is 3 WAR from maybe Mikolas or Matz?

[Jimcanuck]

I post just infrequently enough to never remember who I have a beef with on here, except for the occasional swipe at Jim. I find it to be a good spot with this forum. Frankly a lot of you morph into one profile in my mind, especially all the guys with "jays" in their name.

 

And why?

[Dick_Pole]

Well, Cardinals are done for the off-season. See, that's the type of proactive s*** I expect from the Jays. Fill all your needs by November 21. Well done.

[Brownie19]

bWAR > fWAR under all circumstances because Baseball Reference is slightly less spammy than Fangraphs and I refuse to give my computer AIDS just to win an online nerd argument.

 

There are very few things on earth I hate more than the Baseball Reference website. I just tried again, and I can't even find the 2023 WAR leaderboard, or a WAR leaderboard sorted by team. bWAR is essentially dead to me.

[Ehjays]

Cardinals sign Kyle Gibson for 1/12. Lynn, Mikolas, and Gibson now locked in. I’m pretty sure Mozeliak is trolling their fans.

 

[Terminator]

what are the Cardinals doing?

[Ehjays]

[Terminator]

These are the kind of guys you sign in February after you’ve whiffed on the big names

[Terminator]

 

They are going to be so bad.

[Ehjays]

I post just infrequently enough to never remember who I have a beef with on here, except for the occasional swipe at Jim. I find it to be a good spot with this forum. Frankly a lot of you morph into one profile in my mind, especially all the guys with "jays" in their name.

 

WTF did I do ? Dont answer I really dont care.

[wilko]

These are the kind of guys you sign in February after you’ve whiffed on the big names

 

Teams dumpster diving pretty early. Not a good look.

[jaysblue]

If you told me Lance Lynn and Kyle Gibson were some of the first arms off the board, I would say you're crazy. Cardinals could have targeted better arms.

 

Looks like Paul DeJong landed himself a starting shortstop gig with the White Sox. Yikes!

[jaysblue]

Teams dumpster diving pretty early. Not a good look.

 

They won't be selling a lot of Kyle Gibson or Lance Lynn jerseys that's for sure.

[glory]

Based on what the Cardinals have done so far, there’s no doubt that their interest in Manoah is genuine.

[wilko]

Based on what the Cardinals have done so far, there’s no doubt that their interest in Manoah is genuine.

 

He'd be their ace!

[Spanky__99]

I'd like to think the Cards aren't finished.

[Laika]

I'd like to think the Cards aren't finished.

 

Yeah they are going to trade for Manoah and really make it ugly

[glory]

He'd be their ace!

 

With 4 years of control left and making the league minimum in 2024. At this rate ask for Jordan Walker in return and see what happens.

[wilko]

With 4 years of control left and making the league minimum in 2024. At this rate ask for Jordan Walker in return and see what happens.

 

Mays well get nuts and also ask for Nootbaar!