Around Baseball 2023

[L54]

I don't think the Orioles came up once in rumours

 

They went into the off-season with Kyle Gibson etc as their top targets

 

I don’t think you know that

 

Arson Judge is also a Giant according to the guys who report rumours

[L54]

This turned from Do the O’s suck? To did the Orioles do enough to supplement their current roster?

[Terminator]

"Suck" is a pretty subjective term that I'm using loosely. Are they going to be 62-100 like they seemingly have for the past decade? No. (But with that pitching staff they might be closer than you think.)

 

Are they a sucky franchise who are going to waste the luck they've gotten with some of their prospects? Absolutely and they're proving it right now. They aren't smart like the Rays but they seem to want to spend like them. They also "Suck" because they had a -14 RD and act like they won the Wild Card spot. They did almost nothing to improve a bad team other than rely on their youth while the Jays and Yanks got better and the Rays are still hanging around.

 

So in those ways yes, I think they suck and I'm not scared of them at all. They'll be competing with the Red Sox to avoid the cellar.

[Terminator]

Nobody is saying that they’re going to win the division but they aren’t going to suck. Of course they’re not going to open the throttle on their most prized possession.

 

Right, so their Opening Day starter is Kyle Gibson lol. Fair to say that their rotation sucks at least?

[Jimcanuck]

Right, so their Opening Day starter is Kyle Gibson lol. Fair to say that their rotation sucks at least?

 

They don't care, they clearly decided not to make additions with the goal of contending now. With 8 prospects in the BA top 100, they can afford to wait before investing in FA and making trades for guys with expensive contracts. Probably happens next off season and overnight they will be top 10 MLB.

[jaysblue]

Aaron Nola and Julio Urias are FAs in 2024. Blake Snell and Lucas Giolito as well. Scherzer has an opt out I believe.

 

Not much in terms of hitters other than Ohtani and Machado likely opts out. Chapman available, Hoskins, Teoscar, lead the pack after.

 

Orioles can definitely make a big splash or two next offseason. If they sign an arm like Nola and bring back Machado, you can say it was worth waiting one more year to spend big. If they don't add anyone of significance, then yeah.

[Terminator]

O’s bring back Machado lol

[Spanky__99]

I can see why they didn't spend on the offense. I think a lower tier OF would have made some sense though.

 

But they definitely needed starting pitching. They project to have the 4th worst starting rotation in the league based on WAR projections.

 

Rodon made tons of sense for them even with the high price tag. Failing that I think some mid tier guys with high upside like Heaney or Tyler Anderson would have been big for them as well. They needed like 2 or 3 mid tier guys. Instead they dumpster dove for Gibson and now they've got Grayson Rodriguez and a collection of backend guys with almost no depth.

 

They basically wasted a year of this core by solidifying themselves into 4th place.

 

Boom!

[glory]

I can see why they didn't spend on the offense. I think a lower tier OF would have made some sense though.

 

But they definitely needed starting pitching. They project to have the 4th worst starting rotation in the league based on WAR projections.

 

Rodon made tons of sense for them even with the high price tag. Failing that I think some mid tier guys with high upside like Heaney or Tyler Anderson would have been big for them as well. They needed like 2 or 3 mid tier guys. Instead they dumpster dove for Gibson and now they've got Grayson Rodriguez and a collection of backend guys with almost no depth.

 

They basically wasted a year of this core by solidifying themselves into 4th place.

 

Yeah they have two players with 5-6 years of control left who already project to have as good (slightly better) a combined WAR next season as Vlad and Bo (Adley/Gunnar). They absolutely should have spent on pitching. Maybe they tried and failed (as mentioned it takes two to tango in free agency) but only adding Kyle Gibson to a core that has 3 really good players (those two + Mullins) and more position player talent on the way just seems like a huge waste. Say what you want about Atkins, but he called up Vlad/Bo in 2019, and then it was Ryu/Roark/Anderson in 2020, Springer/Semien/Ray/Matz in 2021, Gausman/Chapman in 2022, etc. He didn't waste a single season he had Vlad/Bo under team control. Now there's only 3 seasons left, but they made the "playoffs" in 2020, just missed in 2021, made it again in 2022, and project to be one of the top 5 best teams in the league at the moment for 2023. You can't accuse them of being cheap or wasting years. The Orioles better start building soon because Adley's 2022 counted as a full year of service so that service time is going to start dwindling quickly.

 

Next year's SP market looks very good so maybe that's when they'll spend, or at least try.

[Terminator]

They don't care, they clearly decided not to make additions with the goal of contending now. With 8 prospects in the BA top 100, they can afford to wait before investing in FA and making trades for guys with expensive contracts. Probably happens next off season and overnight they will be top 10 MLB.

 

This is why they are a garbage franchise Jim

[Laika]

8 prospects on the top 100 probably translates to what... 2 or 3 good MLB players and then a bunch of guys you need to either trade at good times or watch bust?

 

I think two years ago Toronto had 7 or 8 on top 100 lists.

 

Groshans, Kirk, Moreno, Pearson, Manoah, Martinez, Martin, SWR.

 

5 of those 8 are firmly in the "should have sold" category and Toronto did sell three of them. Two bad keeps (Orelvis and Pearson).

Two good keeps.

One who was traded and it won't be clear for probably 2 years whether or not that was a good decision (Moreno).

 

 

Having a cluster of good prospects is like 15% of the equation. The Orioles should have started ramping up this offseason.

[Pendleton]

8 prospects on the top 100 probably translates to what... 2 or 3 good MLB players and then a bunch of guys you need to either trade at good times or watch bust?

 

I think two years ago Toronto had 7 or 8 on top 100 lists.

 

Groshans, Kirk, Moreno, Pearson, Manoah, Martinez, Martin, SWR.

 

5 of those 8 are firmly in the "should have sold" category and Toronto did sell three of them. Two bad keeps (Orelvis and Pearson).

Two good keeps.

One who was traded and it won't be clear for probably 2 years whether or not that was a good decision (Moreno).

 

 

Having a cluster of good prospects is like 15% of the equation. The Orioles should have started ramping up this offseason.

 

Yeah that's what I was thinking, they'll be lucky if they pull two stars and two more above average regulars out of those eight, because that's just how prospects work. Even if their best young pieces all reach their ceilings, they still would need to go out shopping for some star talent, especially on the pitching side. It's not feasible to make it all come together with perfect timing, I don't see why they wouldn't start chipping away with a big add or two this winter.

 

In fairness, maybe they did target a couple top guys who in turn showed no interest in moving to Baltimore.

[The Cats Ass]

They were the ONE TEAM that didn't meet with Ohtani's agents during the posting process

 

They just seem like a very frugal team sometimes. No way Ohtani was going to sign with them so why waste money traveling and time putting together a proposal.

[jaysblue]

A lot of the elite SPs this offseason had some question marks when it came to durability & health like DeGrom and Rodon or age when it came to Verlander. Even some of the middle tier guys.

 

Would rather spend big money on Aaron Nola over those arms mentioned above.

 

Though still the Orioles could have made some other moves to help compliment their young roster. Bassitt, Stripling, Anderson, and Quintana would have been nice arms to add.

[Jimcanuck]

On the other hand the Jays signed Ryu during the ramp up, and he has given the Jays nothing in terms of post season

 

The comparable would be the O's signing Rodon

[peterkim]

the point of 2023 of jays is how they reduce many LOB and try to minimize to lose by 1 point .

[jaysblue]

Ryu was kind of their first big offseason signing, so it showed other teams that players wanted to come here and that the Jays meant business when it came to improving the roster. Ryu paved the way for Springer & Semien afterwards, Gausman, etc. Though yeah, Ryu had no impact whatsoever on the roster in terms of the Post Season, other than in 2020. None of those guys brought in that offseason had any impact whatsoever.

[Jimcanuck]

OK time to ban this clown ^^ Edited January 20, 2023 by Jimcanuck

[Pendleton]

Wow that's a bit harsh Jim, what did jaysblue ever do to you?

[Brownie19]

I think there's a pretty high chance that Jackson Holliday is a superstar. There's probably a very good chance that Aldey, Gunner, Jackson and Grayson are all star players (3.5+ WAR guys), plus they have Mullins. That puts them in a similar category to the Jays core with Vlad, Bo, Kirk and Manoah, plus we have Varsho.

 

The O's have a lot more holes to fill around those guys IMO - but that's still a really fun exciting core to have.

[Krylian]

the point of 2023 of jays is how they reduce many LOB and try to minimize to lose by 1 point .

 

Here's a picture of Kobe getting 1 point.

 

[Jimcanuck]

It's smart for rebuilding teams to focus on position players 1st and pitchers 2nd. Pitchers break, position players generally don't. Get the pitchers you need when you are rising to the peak of the win curve.

 

Maybe the O's should have started the pitching acquisitions this past off season, but if they decided not to, that's defensible.

[Jimcanuck]

Wow that's a bit harsh Jim, what did jaysblue ever do to you?

 

I've had many hours of counselling because of that guy

[Krylian]

I've had many hours of counselling because of that guy

 

A chat board shouldn't impact a person in such a way.

[jaysblue]

OK time to ban this clown ^

 

From an optics and PR perspective, signing Ryu was good for the Jays at the time. They never spent big money on a FA under Atkins/Shapiro.

 

Other players see the Blue Jays ownership are willing to spend and improve during free agency. Makes Toronto a more attractive landing spot. The fanbase also sees ownership is willing to spend, which definitely helps and also can bring in more new fans as well.

[Terminator]

OK time to ban this clown ^

 

Wow! Someone woke up a little bit cranky this morning!

[jaysblue]

It's smart for rebuilding teams to focus on position players 1st and pitchers 2nd. Pitchers break, position players generally don't. Get the pitchers you need when you are rising to the peak of the win curve.

 

Maybe the O's should have started the pitching acquisitions this past off season, but if they decided not to, that's defensible.

 

Cubs were successful with going after Lester before they contended.

 

Though agree, there were some question marks with the top arms available this offseason and if the O's didn't want to throw out huge contracts to someone like Rodon or DeGrom, that's defensible. They could have went after guys a tier below possibly, but not the end of the world.

[Jimcanuck]

You guys are dense, it's clear my comment related to the resident clown, petekim

[The Cats Ass]

You guys are dense, it's clear my comment related to the resident clown, petekim

 

Just because he's Asian?

[Pendleton]

You guys are dense, it's clear my comment related to the resident clown, petekim

 

How do we know Peter and Kim aren't two people, like one of those shared couple accounts on Facebook?

 

Holy s***, do you think it could be Pete Davidson and Kim Kardashian's joint BJMB account?