Toronto GIDPs v. Detroit Errors; GM 4

[NY_Mountie]

Bo and Kirk must have an engagement. Both swung at the first pitch they saw.

[Spanky99]

A few reasons

 

I know them, but f*** that, still. He was pitching strong late in this game.

[Spanky99]

Romano almost hit a 100... NOICE!

[G-Snarls]

Romano filth

[jaysguy44]

Good work Vlad

[Solaxys]

When Romano has fastball command, he is filthy.

[jaysguy44]

Weooooo, Romano lights out!

[G-Snarls]

Wow

 

Great game all around

[Spanky99]

Great win, thanks for the gifts... Tigers! 12 over 500 folks!

 

Bring on them Rays!

[Omar]

Wow

 

Great game all around

 

 

[Omar]

Okay Atkins your move before next game.

[BlueJays]

Great series W.

[jaysguy44]

Maybe I'm being lame, but the Gatorade shower post-game is getting old...

[Solaxys]

Maybe I'm being lame, but the Gatorade shower post-game is getting old...

 

This is why they do it; its not Gatorade, its Biosteel.

[Stangstag]

May be the quickest game I ever attended. Nice clean baseball by the Jays, hits with RISP, good pitching. Great win.

[glory]

Why was Berrios pulled after 80 pitches? He may have been able to complete this game with how bad the Tigers bats are, or at least went another inning. I could understand if he was closing in on 100 pitches but 80 after 7 is pretty damn efficient. Oh well.

[Stangstag]

Why was Berrios pulled after 80 pitches? He may have been able to complete this game with how bad the Tigers bats are, or at least went another inning. I could understand if he was closing in on 100 pitches but 80 after 7 is pretty damn efficient. Oh well.

 

Off day tomorrow

[Omar]

Why was Berrios pulled after 80 pitches? He may have been able to complete this game with how bad the Tigers bats are, or at least went another inning. I could understand if he was closing in on 100 pitches but 80 after 7 is pretty damn efficient. Oh well.

 

I don't think he was as good as his line reads. Some loud outs along the way today.

[BigCecil]

Sure but Chappy is not one our best hitters.

Right now he is better than Bo. Red hot. He came on the scene as good or better than Bo wRC+ . League adjusts. Also not sure the impact of his injury. In any case I like Teo and Gurriel above him. Hopefully that changes and he moves back up.

[Spanky99]

So we’re back to 12 over .500 meaning they’ve been playing .500 ball since the middle of June. It would be nice if they could get some distance in the wild card standings.

 

Do you not remember the Jays losing 9 of 10 and falling to a tie for the last WC spot? This team is surging now going 12-3 since that lull, with reinforcements coming in, their going to take that top spot, no doubt.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Spanky99

[Stangstag]

You got to put Vlad/Chap back to back at this point - two of your hottest hitters should be 2/3

 

I wish lineups were fluid and you moved people around based on who's hot and who's not. This legacy model of building a lineup based on 'comfort' feels so eh.

 

But hell ya Bo!

 

I agree. I don’t understand cementing a guy into a certain lineup spot based on past performance. Who’s to say someone won’t have a down year? (Bo)

 

Taking away some extra at bats from guys who might be hot and seeing the ball well. Could win you some games. Maybe not, idk

[Spanky99]

I agree. I don’t understand cementing a guy into a certain lineup spot based on past performance. Who’s to say someone won’t have a down year? (Bo)

 

Taking away some extra at bats from guys who might be hot and seeing the ball well. Could win you some games. Maybe not, idk

 

It's marginal, if anything.

[max silver]

He is a scrub, at least he's definitely been playing like one this season. Guy is given opportunity after opportunity, and continues to prove he doesn't belong in the top half of the lineup.

 

The Jays have a few position players who are actual scrubs. Zack Collins and Bradley Zimmer come to mind. You have insanely high standards if 2022 Bo Bichette is a "scrub" in your view. He had a very slow start in April, however from May 1 onwards he has been playing at a 4 win pace over the last 3 months. He is on pace to accumulate 3 WAR this season in a down year. The average MLB player accumulates about 2 WAR in a season, which makes 2022 Bo Bichette an ABOVE AVERAGE regular. Maybe you can give the scrub nonsense a rest or spit your venom at players who actually deserve it.

[Solaxys]

The Jays have a few position players who are actual scrubs. Zack Collins and Bradley Zimmer come to mind. You have insanely high standards if 2022 Bo Bichette is a "scrub" in your view. He had a very slow start in April, however from May 1 onwards he has been playing at a 4 win pace over the last 3 months. He is on pace to accumulate 3 WAR this season in a down year. The average MLB player accumulates about 2 WAR in a season, which makes 2022 Bo Bichette an ABOVE AVERAGE regular. Maybe you can give the scrub nonsense a rest or spit your venom at players who actually deserve it.

 

If you characterize by WAR, then you have to filter the entire thing by shortstops, not comparing him to "everyone" and claiming he is "above average".

If you do, he's 15th in WAR among all qualified SS out of 24. That's below average. He's getting beat in this metric by every single contending team's SS except IKF and Carlos Correa.

You typically opt to convince people using wRC+ and surprised you aren't opting for that this time around. Didn't service you this time around that he is basically exactly 100 wRC+ on the dot for the season?

 

He isn't a scrub but he definitely isn't playing remotely well and still hasn't evidently made changes to his decision making at the plate.

The only thing I can think of, if I was to defend Bo: he drastically improved his defense this year (still average but better) and has been working diligently at it day in and day out, and perhaps he isn't focusing on his bat atm. Happened with Teo, happened with Kirk, etc.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Solaxys

[max silver]

If you characterize by WAR, then you have to filter the entire thing by shortstops, not comparing him to "everyone" and claiming he is "above average".

If you do, he's 15th in WAR among all qualified SS out of 24. That's below average. He's getting beat in this metric by every single contending team's SS except IKF and Carlos Correa.

You typically opt to convince people using wRC+ and surprised you aren't opting for that this time around. Didn't service you this time around that he is basically exactly 100 wRC+ on the dot for the season?

 

He isn't a scrub but he definitely isn't playing remotely well and still hasn't evidently made changes to his decision making at the plate.

The only thing I can think of, if I was to defend Bo, would be he drastically improved his defense this year and has been working diligently at it day in and day out, perhaps he isn't focusing on his bat atm.

 

It seems you missed where I compared Bo Bichette to an average MLB regular to portray that he hasn't been somehow dragging his club down and preventing them from winning games. I won't argue that he shouldn't be dropped in the lineup as his offensive contributions for the season don't justify him batting cleanup. There are a number of options far more suited for this spot than Bo, you can easily insert of any of Teoscar, Gurriel or Chapman into this spot.

 

I can just as easily use WRC+ to portray how Bo's poor start to the season dug him a hole early on. I could even argue that he was largely snakebitten for the month of April as he was regularly producing very high quality of contact right in line with his career averages. Using the same start point of May 1st has seen him produce a 115 WRC+ over a 3 month stretch of play. I won't argue that he's been producing the expected level of offense given his talent level, but to suggest that he's suddenly a lousy player when experiencing a down season (Vlad has been taking much of the same kind of flak) simply isn't fair.

 

I fully agree that for Bo to maximize his offensive output he is going to need to tone down on the excessive aggressiveness at the plate. For what it's worth Bo isn't really swinging at more pitches out of the strike zone this season compared to previous seasons, however it's possible that he's swinging at pitches so far out of the strike zone compared to prior seasons as his whiff and k percentages are up a bit compared to previous levels. He's walking at a similar rate to his career levels, but to me the thing that seems to be missing is his ability to do damage on the pitches in the strike zone he does make contact with.

[Solaxys]

There are a number of options far more suited for this spot than Bo, you can easily insert of any of Teoscar, Gurriel or Chapman into this spot.

 

Probably the issue.

He just should not be hitting cleanup at the moment, and as long as he does and performs at the 100 wRC+ clip, he's going to get bashed day in/day out.

The same with playing him at SS when his entire kit feels better suited for 2B (but that's an offseason move, if it happens).

[Stangstag]

Probably the issue.

He just should not be hitting cleanup at the moment, and as long as he does and performs at the 100 wRC+ clip, he's going to get bashed day in/day out.

The same with playing him at SS when his entire kit feels better suited for 2B (but that's an offseason move, if it happens).

 

Right. I don’t think anyone would be complaining about Bo’s bat if he was hitting 6th/7th. Kinda like how Chapman flew under the radar while he had his slow start. Or Espinal these past few weeks.

[Jimcanuck]

Jays end up not making the post season, I'm not going to argue with someone who points to Bo as a primary reason.

[L54]

Jays end up not making the post season, I'm not going to argue with someone who points to Bo as a primary reason.

 

Bo is an above average MLB regular haven’t you heard?

[BigCecil]

Jays end up not making the post season, I'm not going to argue with someone who points to Bo as a primary reason.

 

It seems surreal that at least baseball people/fans were talking about a $300M plus deal for Bo after '21. He has value and I guess he is still a potentially elite offensive player, but I don't see him ever become more than average defensively, and I question whether he can improve his pitch selection/chase at the plate. They just arent going to throw him strikes when they don't need to as he gets himself out.

 

Pillar, Grichuk, Baez...on and on never could adjust. I would not bet much Bo will ever be more than a 105 - 115 wRC+ for a season again. A wRC+ 142 over 212 PAs in 2019 will by far be his high water mark. Which is solid, but a TOR contract offer will be less than he wants, which is why he will be gone after '25 or traded before.