GDT: Jays @ Mariners Gm 1 of 4... 10:10 EST

[gruber92]

Whoever made the decision to start f***ing Hatch against Rays, man...

 

It's something that just can't be explained. Hatch was getting hammered in AAA to boot.

[JFD]

Man, Kirk should have hammered that 3-1 meatball.

 

The coaching staff has ruined him . It's all downhill from here

[Omar]

The scary thing to think of is that Atkins went dumpster diving, got Banda, and put him on the roster immediately. That means that he knows that left over near-do-wells are as good or superior to what we currently have. Yes, the situation is that bad.

[gruber92]

Are they even AAAA guys? Lawrence had a good run down there this year but...

 

Lawrence just doesn't have the velocity and bite to get MLB hitters out consistently.

[Solaxys]

Holy f*** you will write bible long posts defending them on pitching dev but you want to fire him over starting a pitcher in one f***ing game?

 

Lol, I love it!

 

Well, yes, even though I don't defend them more than I don't have all the market data available in who is available to get just randomly and fill our AAA with studs like Rays/Astros/Yankees/whoever else. I don't know if we had the same options those clubs did and if we also wanted to get those trades done, but it wasn't meant to be. It has been an issue for every single FO for the Jays - this is wrt organizational depth. As for development, I have seen strides in minors for pitching in the last year and a half. I am happy with the development of not one but three excellent pitchers, one post TJS and one out of thin air.

 

The Castillo decision was squarely on them because all the pieces were there for them to access. Unless Castillo was hurt (which he wasn't, Charlie burned him 2 days in a row), there was seemingly not a single valid reason to start Hatch. He was getting destroyed by AAA batters across 12 starts; he hasn't been good in 2.5 yrs in any setting. Castillo showed promise in AAA for the exact same timeframe + had very good innings against Brewers (literally, the NL Rays team).

I can hold them accountable to that.

 

Give credit where its due, take it away where it isn't.

[Omar]

Lawrence just doesn't have the velocity and bite to get MLB hitters out consistently.

 

He stinks.

[BigCecil]

Man, Kirk should have hammered that 3-1 meatball.

 

The last guy I'm gonna flag for missing a hitters pitch on this team is Kirk. He rarely misses when he gets something to crank.

[Dagagad]

Well, yes, even though I don't defend them more than I don't have all the market data available in who is available to get just randomly and fill our AAA with studs like Rays/Astros/Yankees/whoever else. I don't know if we had the same options those clubs did and if we also wanted to get those trades done, but it wasn't meant to be. It has been an issue for every single FO for the Jays - this is wrt organizational depth. As for development, I have seen strides in minors for pitching in the last year and a half. I am happy with the development of not one but three excellent pitchers, one post TJS and one out of thin air.

 

The Castillo decision was squarely on them. Unless Castillo was hurt (which he wasn't, Charlie burned him 2 days in a row), there was seemingly not a single valid reason to start Hatch.

I can hold them accountable to that.

 

Give credit where its due, take it away where it isn't.

 

Fair enough. The one thing I will say is don’t dream too hard on low minors pitching. It will jump up and punch you in the balls with no warning.

[gruber92]

The last guy I'm gonna flag for missing a hitters pitch on this team is Kirk. He rarely misses when he gets something to crank.

 

For sure, that's why I was surprised.

[Solaxys]

Just watch The Boys people and start if you haven't! Its a better show than this

[JFD]

My friend that never swears said this team is f***ing s*** lol

[gruber92]

Espy battled there, had a good game.

[Omar]

[Ray]

Our pitching is in absolute shambles right now. Yes, there's been underperformances. Yes, there's been injuries. It seems like other good teams can weather it more than us though. The Rays and Dodgers can lose a top of the rotation starter and call up the next pitcher from AAA who will be at worst a solid-regular contributor. We're running out guys who aren't even giving us a fighters chance.

 

I think Ross Atkins has done more good than bad during his tenure. He's built one of the league's more enviable position player cores. But something in our pitching acquisition process, game planning, and/or pitching development, in general, has to change. It just seems broken, and we're 6 years into their tenure. I'm not even going to blame it all on him. There's a lot that goes into acquisitions. Coaching, analytics, scouting etc. all go into making transactions. Something in that process seems broken right now.

[5ToolPhenom]

Yeah, I think the conversation goes something like, "Look we believe in you, but we think you need a break to work on some things, so we're going to IL you .....and you come back stronger than ever...."

 

That's exactly it. So since teams always abuse this and it usually seems to be more of a mental issue with the player, maybe they could call it a 15 day mental health sabbatical or something like that. Would make sense as society has evolved on how it views mental health and with these phantom injuries it usually is to try and regroup and get the players head straight.

 

It would be better optically than these players and organizations faking ailments and pretending to be suffering with an injury when they're actually in perfect health. I'm not one of these PC guys, but it's honestly not a good look. Why bother with the charade?

[5ToolPhenom]

Our pitching is in absolute shambles right now. Yes, there's been underperformances. Yes, there's been injuries. It seems like other good teams can weather it more than us though. The Rays and Dodgers can lose a top of the rotation starter and call up the next pitcher from AAA who will be at worst a solid-regular contributor. We're running out guys who aren't even giving us a fighters chance.

 

I think Ross Atkins has done more good than bad during his tenure. He's built one of the league's more enviable position player cores. But something in our pitching acquisition process, game planning, and/or pitching development, in general, has to change. It just seems broken, and we're 6 years into their tenure. I'm not even going to blame it all on him. There's a lot that goes into acquisitions. Coaching, analytics, scouting etc. all go into making transactions. Something in that process seems broken right now.

 

I tend to think Atkins and Shapiro are overrated. The hype for Shapiro was more than I can ever remember with any other Jays management. It's been 7 years, the rebuild is over with and I'm not exactly blown away by the core. From a player development standpoint, it's not exactly bustling with superstars. A lot of other teams have perennial all-stars, but with the Jays nothing's really surefire. Vlad would be the best bet, but it remains to be seen if his MVP caliber year will be an outlier. Manoah looks like the real deal, but is that sustainable? Nothing about his pitch makeup is really all that extraordinary. Kirk could be a superstar moving forward but he's 5'8 and shaped like a bowling ball.

 

A lot of teams have their ups and downs with their offenses. You could say the same about the Stro's and at the beginning of the year the Yankees but they have lights out pitching. If the Jays aren't mashing at the plate, then look out.

[DigitalRock]

Very disappointing first half, not much has gone right

[AttackOfTheJays]

This is not a good baseball team and is flawed straight down to the core. They have been floundering since June. Offense has been a mess the last few weeks. Pitching has been a total disaster since May. Zero pitching depth on the farm. Vladdy and Bo are in line for monster contracts soon for a team that already has a hefty payroll. Montoyo is completely out of his depth with roster management. Springer's been hobbling around for weeks. Berrios is Jekyll and Hyde. Vladdy is in his head. Teoscar doesn't care. Bo is nothing special. No leftie bats worth a damn. 8 clones in the bullpen minus Romano.

 

There isn't a team I would pick the Jays to beat if the playoffs were to start tomorrow and they were in it and by August Baltimore will be ahead of us. Bookmark this. Mark my words.

[Krylian]

Very disappointing first half, not much has gone right

 

Kirk and Manoah.

[BlueJaysFever]

Honestly, our injury luck hasn’t been that bad. Don’t teams average something like 11 starting pitchers total per season or something ridiculous.

I think it’s closer to 7 or 8.

 

Anyways, it’s not the injuries that concern me. I mean losing Ryu is definitely a hit to the depth even if he wasn’t the Ryu of 2020. It’s (repeat ad nauseum) how badly the depth has been exposed. Kikuchi is off the rails so the team goes to Banda to open who doesn’t even look like he should be in the MLB to then passing the torch to Casey Lawrence who has the same doesn’t belong issue as Banda.

 

Castillo is interesting and so is Zulueta and Adrian Hernandez. The latter two will likely get into the Jays pen this season but this team needs a starter that can pitch 5 or 6 innings. I don’t even think the pen is as bad as it looks right now - it’s just badly overworked and clearly neither Lawrence nor Hatch are the answers.

[Dagagad]

I tend to think Atkins and Shapiro are overrated. The hype for Shapiro was more than I can ever remember with any other Jays management. It's been 7 years, the rebuild is over with and I'm not exactly blown away by the core. From a player development standpoint, it's not exactly bustling with superstars. A lot of other teams have perennial all-stars, but with the Jays nothing's really surefire. Vlad would be the best bet, but it remains to be seen if his MVP caliber year will be an outlier. Manoah looks like the real deal, but is that sustainable? Nothing about his pitch makeup is really all that extraordinary. Kirk could be a superstar moving forward but he's 5'8 and shaped like a bowling ball.

 

A lot of teams have their ups and downs with their offenses. You could say the same about the Stro's and at the beginning of the year the Yankees but they have lights out pitching. If the Jays aren't mashing at the plate, then look out.

 

I don’t see how you can be realistic about things and not be happy with the hitting side. Bo or vlad could easily have been straight up busts. Kirk, Espinal have been success stories.

 

It’s the pitching.

[gruber92]

I don’t see how you can be realistic about things and not be happy with the hitting side. Bo or vlad could easily have been straight up busts. Kirk, Espinal have been success stories.

 

It’s the pitching.

 

Don't forget it was Anthopoulos who signed Vladdy, not Shatkins.

[Jaysareus]

Jays first half has been a disaster but not as bad as that year they got Jose Reyes lol. That was epic bad

[Jaysareus]

Guy previous was correct Baltimore will finish ahead of the jays

[JFD]

Did Rogers reboot all systems to try and fix the Jays?

[G-Snarls]

Did Rogers reboot all systems to try and fix the Jays?

 

LOL hope so

 

But I still don't have cell service

 

And the WiFi at work won't work

 

And can't use debit to buy lunch

 

And can't send an email transfer to pay my plumber

 

Etc etc

Edited July 8, 2022 by G-Snarls

[John_Havok]

LOL hope so

 

But I still don't have cell service

 

And the WiFi at work won't work

 

And can't use debit to buy lunch

 

And can't send an email transfer to pay my plumber

 

Etc etc

 

Is Russia causing a fire sale?

[G-Snarls]

Don't forget it was Anthopoulos who signed Vladdy, not Shatkins.

 

Blew the entire international FA signing budget on him.

 

Worth it

[RobinThicc]

Rogers s*** the bed today f*** them

[G-Snarls]

Rogers s*** the bed today f*** them

 

Do we need to add them as a third thing???