General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2022)

[Omar]

In relatively inconsequential news, Whit Merrifield will be wearing #15 for the Jays next season. No, I don't remember what number he wore last season.

 

He wore #1

 

Just retire #1. It’s the right thing to do.

[Krylian]

 

17 years ago?!?

[Brownie19]

17 years ago? f*** me. I remember opening day - fans chanting "We want BJ's". That was the day I realized I no longer want to attend opening day.

[John_Havok]

And he was incredible that first year.

 

Then Tommy John... then an average year, then complete crap and he was DFA in year 4. They realistically got 1 good year out of that deal

[jaysblue]

17 years ago? f*** me. I remember opening day - fans chanting "We want BJ's". That was the day I realized I no longer want to attend opening day.

 

Or T-shirts being sold outside of dome saying the same thing haha.

[jaysblue]

 

17 years ago?!?

 

5 years and $47 million gets you someone like Robert Suarez these days haha.

 

That 2005 offseason was fun. Jays brought in BJ Ryan, AJ Burnett, Troy Glaus, Lyle Overbay and Bengie Molina.

 

Yeah the BJ Ryan contract turned out bad. Too bad he couldn't stay healthy. Though his first season here he was lights out and fun to watch close out games. 2.7 WAR in 2006. In 2008, he was still decent but not as sharp or in the same form as he was in 2006. In today's market, a reliever or closer like BJ Ryan probably gets 5 years close to $90-100 million.

[John_Havok]

5 years and $47 million gets you someone like Robert Suarez these days haha.

 

That 2005 offseason was fun. Jays brought in BJ Ryan, AJ Burnett, Troy Glaus, Lyle Overbay and Bengie Molina.

 

Yeah the BJ Ryan contract turned out bad. Too bad he couldn't stay healthy. Though his first season here he was lights out and fun to watch close out games. 2.7 WAR in 2006. In 2008, he was still decent but not as sharp or in the same form as he was in 2006. In today's market, a reliever or closer like BJ Ryan probably gets 5 years close to $90-100 million.

 

Its kind of hard to compare honestly, back then (looking ta say 2004) only 10 relievers had a K/9 at 10 or higher (Brad Lidge.... wtf! that was a massive year for him).

 

In 2022, there was 65 relievers with a k/9 over 10.

[jaysblue]

Its kind of hard to compare honestly, back then (looking ta say 2004) only 10 relievers had a K/9 at 10 or higher (Brad Lidge.... wtf! that was a massive year for him).

 

In 2022, there was 65 relievers with a k/9 over 10.

 

I remember Brad Lidge and even Eric Gagne those seasons. They both were beasts.

 

I'm just going by what someone like Diaz got as a FA this offseason. He'll be one year younger than BJ Ryan was when he started his new contract with the Jays. I think someone like Ryan today probably gets 5 years still around $80-90M or something similar to what Diaz got.

[jaysblue]

Geez Eric Gagne from 2002 to 2004.

 

In 2003, he was perfect in save situations and won the 2003 NL Cy Young. Mark Prior though should have won that season.

 

0.86 FIP, 4.7 WAR, 14.98 K/9 - Gagne was a beast that season. Do you think we see another reliever put up those numbers out of the BP over a full season?

[Laika]

Its kind of hard to compare honestly, back then (looking ta say 2004) only 10 relievers had a K/9 at 10 or higher (Brad Lidge.... wtf! that was a massive year for him).

 

In 2022, there was 65 relievers with a k/9 over 10.

 

well he was #2 in RP K rate in 2005

 

so you can compare him to someone like Edwin Diaz in 2022.

[G-Snarls]

Geez Eric Gagne from 2002 to 2004.

 

In 2003, he was perfect in save situations and won the 2003 NL Cy Young. Mark Prior though should have won that season.

 

0.86 FIP, 4.7 WAR, 14.98 K/9 - Gagne was a beast that season. Do you think we see another reliever put up those numbers out of the BP over a full season?

 

I though maybe 2021 Hader but no. Hader struck out slightly more per 9 but had higher hits/walks/FIP and much lower WAR.

[jaysblue]

I though maybe 2021 Hader but no. Hader struck out slightly more per 9 but had higher hits/walks/FIP and much lower WAR.

 

Yeah not sure we'll ever see another reliever for a while put up a season like Gagne did in 2003.

[Laika]

I though maybe 2021 Hader but no. Hader struck out slightly more per 9 but had higher hits/walks/FIP and much lower WAR.

 

I think we'll see something like it again. Maybe not quite 80+ IP and 50+ saves with how relievers are used now but just in the last ten years multiple guys (Edwin Diaz, Liam Hendriks, Craig Kimbrel, Devin Williams, Aroldis Chapman) have had comparable seasons in various ways.

 

Like 2012 Kimbrel was insane. 0.78 FIP, 0.88 xFIP

2020 Devin Williams in the short season was nuts

Diaz this year was insane.

2019 Hendriks was extremely good AND the A's let him throw 80+ innings.

[Ehjays]

Just retire #1. It’s the right thing to do.

 

It may be why Merrifield has switched to 15. I didnt really see a reason but ,maybe the team is planning to honour him this year and told Merrifield to pick another.

[Spanky99]

It may be why Merrifield has switched to 15. I didnt really see a reason but ,maybe the team is planning to honour him this year and told Merrifield to pick another.

 

That's not it at all, 15 has been Whit's number his whole career, Tapia had 15 last season.

[jaysblue]

I think we'll see something like it again. Maybe not quite 80+ IP and 50+ saves with how relievers are used now but just in the last ten years multiple guys (Edwin Diaz, Liam Hendriks, Craig Kimbrel, Devin Williams, Aroldis Chapman) have had comparable seasons in various ways.

 

Like 2012 Kimbrel was insane. 0.78 FIP, 0.88 xFIP

2020 Devin Williams in the short season was nuts

Diaz this year was insane.

2019 Hendriks was extremely good AND the A's let him throw 80+ innings.

 

Hendriks in 2019 was amazing - 3.9 WAR season.

 

Devin Williams has the potential to put up a 3+ WAR season IMO.

 

Diaz in 2018 and this season was amazing as well.

 

Kenley Jansen in 2017 - 109 K's vs. 7 BB in 68.1 innings, 3.4 WAR.

[Ehjays]

That's not it at all, 15 has been Whit's number his whole career, Tapia had 15 last season.

 

Well then back to "Just retire #1. It’s the right thing to do."

[Deadpool]

5 years and $47 million gets you someone like Robert Suarez these days haha.

 

That 2005 offseason was fun. Jays brought in BJ Ryan, AJ Burnett, Troy Glaus, Lyle Overbay and Bengie Molina.

 

Yeah the BJ Ryan contract turned out bad. Too bad he couldn't stay healthy. Though his first season here he was lights out and fun to watch close out games. 2.7 WAR in 2006. In 2008, he was still decent but not as sharp or in the same form as he was in 2006. In today's market, a reliever or closer like BJ Ryan probably gets 5 years close to $90-100 million.

 

That was the off-season where I got back into the Jays. The strike in 94 killed my interest (as it did for many) until this.

[The_DH]

I'm not too big on retiring numbers (as long as a team has a reason for doing it), but when the Jays gave #1 to Shun Yamaguchi I thought it was nothing but disrespect.

[Brownie19]

Yeah the BJ Ryan contract turned out bad. Too bad he couldn't stay healthy. Though his first season here he was lights out and fun to watch close out games. 2.7 WAR in 2006. In 2008, he was still decent but not as sharp or in the same form as he was in 2006.

 

Fangraph's indicates Ryan's average fastball was only 89.5 MPH in 2008 after returning from TJS. I'm not sure how had he threw in 2006 (Fangraph's doesn't list that), but it's pretty crazy to think there was an absolute lights out closer in 2006 throwing like 91 MPH (my guess pre TJS). I know where they measure velocity changed and that changed the reference point a bit (still not 100% how much), but the increase in bullpen velocity has been absolutely massive over the past 15 years.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Brownie19

[Laika]

That was also when I got into baseball. I did not like baseball much until around that time. I don't have memories of Hentgen or Batista starting for Toronto, or Josh Phelps at all, so I don't think I watched much at all in 2004.

 

I remember being marginally excited for Corey Koskie because he was Canadian, lol.

[Stangstag]

That was also when I got into baseball. I did not like baseball much until around that time. I don't have memories of Hentgen or Batista starting for Toronto, or Josh Phelps at all, so I don't think I watched much at all in 2004.

 

I remember being marginally excited for Corey Koskie because he was Canadian, lol.

 

You must have been ecstatic for Brett Lawrie then. Damn I remember the hype....

[Laika]

You must have been ecstatic for Brett Lawrie then. Damn I remember the hype....

 

Well, yeah. Everyone legitimately thought he was going to be a superstar. Like if Ryan Braun was a plus 3B and stuck there.

 

Good lord Lawrie's 2011 was monstrous. 163 wRC+ in AAA at 21 years old then a 157 wRC+ in the majors, all with contact and walks and a +13 UZR/150 at 3B in the majors.

 

He looked like a 7 WAR player.

 

For him to do THAT and then immediately become a mediocre fielding, slap hitting 2B was such a letdown. He played down to his physical talent floor because of makeup issues and a 75 IQ (if we are generous).

[The Cats Ass]

Well, yeah. Everyone legitimately thought he was going to be a superstar. Like if Ryan Braun was a plus 3B and stuck there.

 

Good lord Lawrie's 2011 was monstrous. 163 wRC+ in AAA at 21 years old then a 157 wRC+ in the majors, all with contact and walks and a +13 UZR/150 at 3B in the majors.

 

He looked like a 7 WAR player.

 

For him to do THAT and then immediately become a mediocre fielding, slap hitting 2B was such a letdown. He played down to his physical talent floor because of makeup issues and a 75 IQ (if we are generous).

 

Didn't BTS take him in the 1st round of the DDL start-up draft?

[Laika]

Didn't BTS take him in the 1st round of the DDL start-up draft?

 

lol probably

[Olerud363]

Well, yeah. Everyone legitimately thought he was going to be a superstar. Like if Ryan Braun was a plus 3B and stuck there.

 

Good lord Lawrie's 2011 was monstrous. 163 wRC+ in AAA at 21 years old then a 157 wRC+ in the majors, all with contact and walks and a +13 UZR/150 at 3B in the majors.

 

He looked like a 7 WAR player.

 

For him to do THAT and then immediately become a mediocre fielding, slap hitting 2B was such a letdown. He played down to his physical talent floor because of makeup issues and a 75 IQ (if we are generous).

 

The 2012 Blue Jays were such a disappointment. Everyone but EE under-performed big time. They had 2 TJs in a week. Travis D'Arnaud got a season ending injury 2 days before he was suppose to be called up. Everybody under-performed. Was excited about that team, lot a young players, lot of intriguing guys. Good right/left balance. Thought they had some pitching.

 

Like every player under-performed and crashed. Henderson Alvarez. Looked good in 10 starts in 2011 and was terrible in 2012

 

Then they tried to acquire the all star track team and that didn't work either.

[John_Havok]

well he was #2 in RP K rate in 2005

 

so you can compare him to someone like Edwin Diaz in 2022.

 

True. Its reallly interesting to see how the relief pitching position has evolved in the past 20 years.

[glory]

 

Don Mattingly and the Blue Jays are deep into discussions that would land the one-time Yankees captain on Toronto’s coaching staff, The Post has learned.

[Ehjays]

https://nypost.com/2022/11/29/don-mattingly-deep-in-talks-to-join-blue-jays-coaching-staff/?fbclid=IwAR3sWICNgHFGCYgY2XC_TAiyCzroWbypXHF-NLiGCW-lsHfLADh5iml53nA

 

Don Mattingly deep in talks to join Blue Jays’ coaching staff

By Joel Sherman and Jon Heyman

November 29, 2022 6:08pm Updated

Don Mattingly and the Blue Jays are deep into discussions that would land the one-time Yankees captain on Toronto’s coaching staff, The Post has learned.

 

An announcement could come as early as this weekend, which could be quite a memorable one for Mattingly. He is one of the eight candidates up for the Hall of Fame through the Contemporary Baseball Era Committee ballot, which is scheduled to be revealed Sunday evening.

 

Mattingly had managed the Marlins for seven years, but the sides agreed not to continue the relationship after the 2022 season. Mattingly. 61, intended to stay in the game and on “The Show with Joel Sherman and Jon Heyman” said that he fielded inquiries from multiple teams. But he said one club in particular was “really interesting to me.” He would not reveal who that team was, but did say at this point he was interested in joining an organization with a chance to win and the Blue Jays are expected to be contenders. Mattingly has never appeared in a World Series as a player, coach or as manager of the Dodgers and Marlins.

 

“One team in particular really talked to me and talked to really my soul of what I like to do and see a value and it’s been very interesting to me,” Mattingly said on the podcast.

 

The Blue Jays fired Charlie Montoyo as manager on June 13 and promoted John Schneider to the interim position. Toronto made the playoffs as a wild card, but lost both games in the first round to Seattle. Nevertheless, Schneider was given a three-year contract and the full-time managing designation. However, the 42-year-old still lacks much major league managing experience. But if all is finalized, as expected, Schneider will have on his bench, in Mattingly, someone who has managed the 70th-most games in major league history (1,839).

[Dick_Pole]

 

First time in my life I've seen an opposing team's fan propose a deal which I think is an overpay lol