[Rosenthal] - Jays still going after Ramirez to play 2B?

[Stangstag]

If you want to Cherry pick time frames.... id rather be the yankees and dodgers since almost ever.

 

How am I cherry-picking a time frame? I just chose the last 10 years.

[wilko]

Haha. We don't need a 1B

 

The only way it made sense to go after Freeman was if Vlad was going back to 3B at least partially. That isn't happening now with Chapman being brought in.

 

I'm not sure it ever made sense to go after Votto.

 

Freeman never really made sense for the Jays but if they could get him.. why not I guess?

[Stangstag]

The final game of the regular season was traumatizing. I'll never forget the Nats bringing in Erick Fedde with a 3 run lead against the Red Sox. And everyone knew he was going to blow that s***.

 

Almost at the same time the Rays tried to close out a game against the Yankees with Josh Fleming on the mound.

 

I think it was a 5-1 lead for Washington at one point. Epic collapse at our expense.

 

Washington needed to win 1 game in that damn series

[Jonn]

I think you wait on Ramirez nobody is budging on Cleveland’s asking price. You leave them with the least amount of leverage as possible. Moreno is a no. Groshans is a consideration. Obviously it would take more but either of those 2 are the center piece.

[G-Snarls]

Freeman never really made sense for the Jays but if they could get him.. why not I guess?

 

That was probably the thinking

 

If you can get him for an acceptable cost you find a way to make it work

 

I'm sure getting a 3B was always plan A

[BCZ]

Ramirez consults with Bautista and Ortiz daily on how to avoid PED detection.

[jerb]

 

paul hoynes

@hoynsie

 

Lots of Jose Ramirez trade rumors floating about. I hear Ramirez is staying in Cleveland.

[Deadpool]

The fact they're trying to add at 2B suggests they're not high on Biggio yes?

 

I doubt they're trying to add a 2B, I think they were just doing due diligence on Ramirez, and would take him if the cost was alright (as he is an obvious upgrade over Biggio). I don't think they view 2B as a hole, but if you can toss a 6 WAR player there, you obviously do that.

[Mikeleelop]

how much less would it cost to acquire Ketel Marte?? Seems like he'd be a better defensive matchup and a great add to this lineup

[Dick_Pole]

2011-2021 timeframe

 

Would you rather be the Royals or the Yankees?

 

The Dodgers or the Giants?

 

The Nationals won in 2019 with arguably their weakest roster of the last 5 years.

 

The Braves won in 2021 with their best player on the DL for half the year and one of their best starters didn’t even make it through a full start.

 

Point is, f*** the “world series odds”, all you need is a team that consistently makes the playoffs each year.

 

I wouldn’t even be surprised if the Rays won the WS in 2022

 

I'm not following the point you're trying to make. The Yankees are consistently in the playoffs but didn't win during that time. The Royals fluked their way during a short period of competency and luck.

 

The Dodgers and Giants have both had a great level of success during that time. Pick either.

 

The Braves and Nationals are in the NL East so the answer to that is be in a s***** division where 88 wins gives you a legit shot at winning.

[Captain Adama]

 

paul hoynes

@hoynsie

 

Lots of Jose Ramirez trade rumors floating about. I hear Ramirez is staying in Cleveland.

 

I'm not too surprised. Cleveland is (understandably) asking for the moon for Ramirez.

[z3r0s]

I'm not really ready to throw in the towel on Biggio, given he's not that far removed from putting up like 3.5 WAR in a season worth of AB's and was injured a lot of last year.

 

The shine is off, but I don't think you blow the bank to replace him without giving him a shot.

[Jayzfan79]

What if the Chapman trade is a component of a trade to Cleveland for JoRam? Chapman + prospects?

[John_Havok]

I'm not too surprised. Cleveland is (understandably) asking for the moon for Ramirez.

 

Cleveland is in a tough spot with Ramirez. he's obviously a great player and is fully entrenched as the face of their franchise, excellent contract for 2 more seasons. He's not really replaceable.

 

That said, the longer they wait to move him, the lower the price tag gets. There's no doubt that from here to the end of 2024, right now is his max value. And, for a team that will never be up against the luxury tax, it behooves them to get the max they can if they aren't truly looking at contention.

[Deadpool]

What if the Chapman trade is a component of a trade to Cleveland for JoRam? Chapman + prospects?

 

It's not.

[Sammy225]

Cleveland is in a tough spot with Ramirez. he's obviously a great player and is fully entrenched as the face of their franchise, excellent contract for 2 more seasons. He's not really replaceable.

 

That said, the longer they wait to move him, the lower the price tag gets. There's no doubt that from here to the end of 2024, right now is his max value. And, for a team that will never be up against the luxury tax, it behooves them to get the max they can if they aren't truly looking at contention.

 

I don't know if they wait till trade deadline and there are teams in the mix and bidding against each other i think they can do pretty well with him.

[Stangstag]

I'm not really ready to throw in the towel on Biggio, given he's not that far removed from putting up like 3.5 WAR in a season worth of AB's and was injured a lot of last year.

 

The shine is off, but I don't think you blow the bank to replace him without giving him a shot.

 

Agreed. We have 2 solid options in Biggio and Espinal, who showed last year that he might be legit.

 

Biggio at 3rd was a disaster but Biggio at 2nd could be very good. I’d focus spending on the bullpen now, everything else is set IMO.

 

If I had to nitpick, the team is lacking some outfield depth.

[Terminator]

Trade for Ramirez, sign Freddie Freeman and go 132-30 on the year. Atkins will go down as a legend.

 

1. Springer

2. J-Ram (S)

3. Bichette

4. Vlad Jr.

5. Freeman (L)

6. Teoscar

7. Kirk

8. Chapman

9. Gurriel

[John_Havok]

Trade for Ramirez, sign Freddie Freeman and go 132-30 on the year. Atkins will go down as a legend.

 

1. Springer

2. J-Ram (S)

3. Bichette

4. Vlad Jr.

5. Freeman (L)

6. Teoscar

7. Kirk

8. Chapman

9. Gurriel

 

After all that you have Bichette batting 3rd?

[Abomination]

The fact they're trying to add at 2B suggests they're not high on Biggio yes?

 

Not necessarily. They could use him in a Zobrist role (minus SS). He could still get full-time at bats while spelling other guys.

[Krylian]

Shatkins is waiting for JRam to have a sluggish 2022 and for Cleveland to fall out of the race, at which point they'll sweep in and land him for Adam Kloffenstein, Jordan Groshans, and Cavan Biggio, who will all have bounceback seasons and have their top value.

[Terminator]

After all that you have Bichette batting 3rd?

 

I drew the names out of a hat

[Jays24]

Shatkins is waiting for JRam to have a sluggish 2022 and for Cleveland to fall out of the race, at which point they'll sweep in and land him for Adam Kloffenstein, Jordan Groshans, and Cavan Biggio, who will all have bounceback seasons and have their top value.

 

Is there even a point to give up that much for 1.5 seasons of a guy you probably can't afford to keep?

 

We have extensions to Vladdy/Bo/Teo/Gurriel/Chapman to worry about by that time. We'll need a new wave of young/cheap controllable talent ready to contribute if we want to sustain our winning ways.

[Ehjays]

Shatkins is waiting for JRam to have a sluggish 2022 and for Cleveland to fall out of the race, at which point they'll sweep in and land him for Adam Kloffenstein, Jordan Groshans, and Cavan Biggio, who will all have bounceback seasons and have their top value.

 

Very good point, the longer Cleveland holds on to him the more time our guys have to build their value.

[THANOS]

Is there even a point to give up that much for 1.5 seasons of a guy you probably can't afford to keep?

 

We have extensions to Vladdy/Bo/Teo/Gurriel/Chapman to worry about by that time. We'll need a new wave of young/cheap controllable talent ready to contribute if we want to sustain our winning ways.

 

I doubt we're extending Teo, Gurriel or Chapman.

 

Bo and Vladdy will command north or 30M AAV in their extensions. We're at 160M give or take right now.

 

I know Ryu's 20M and Grichuk's 11M will be off the books in 2 seasons, but that only covers 1 of them.

 

If you give extensions to all of those guys, you run a payroll north of 270M likely.

 

With just Bo and Vlad, it's likely 220M.

[Jimcanuck]

I doubt we're extending Teo, Gurriel or Chapman.

 

Bo and Vladdy will command north or 30M AAV in their extensions. We're at 160M give or take right now.

 

I know Ryu's 20M and Grichuk's 11M will be off the books in 2 seasons, but that only covers 1 of them.

 

If you give extensions to all of those guys, you run a payroll north of 270M likely.

 

With just Bo and Vlad, it's likely 220M.

 

Most likely one of bo and vlad go free agency. A concern for another day but who ends up getting extended among those 5 names is anyones guess

[Krylian]

Is there even a point to give up that much for 1.5 seasons of a guy you probably can't afford to keep?

 

We have extensions to Vladdy/Bo/Teo/Gurriel/Chapman to worry about by that time. We'll need a new wave of young/cheap controllable talent ready to contribute if we want to sustain our winning ways.

 

I think one of Teo or Gurriel are moved next offseason. The other is plus Chapman walk as free agents. This team will get too expensive real fast. Might as well go balls deep this year and see what happens.

[Spanky99]

I drew the names out of a hat

 

lol... you win.

[Ehjays]

[Dr. Dinger]

Not to be too hyperbolic but Guerrero-Ramirez-Bichette-Chapman would be one of the greatest infields ever assembled.