Around Baseball 2022

[Jimcanuck]

Again, dude. The MLBPA doesn’t want to go down that road. Of saying yes we’ll sign you to this 10/300m deal but we’ll put in a playing time cause. They aren’t going to allow contracts to penetrate any grey zone. It’s going to be bonuses for guys on smaller deals and such

 

Understand that. But as long as the Contract agreed upon by player and team does not break any of the bargained rules, MLBPA can do nothing.

[connorp]

Understand that. But as long as the Contract agreed upon by player and team does not break any of the bargained rules, MLBPA can do nothing.

 

You’re not this ignorant. It doesn’t work like that amigo. The CBA is not a be-all-end-all that needs to provide every detail. When things happen that isn’t in the spirit of the CBA to one side, it would go to arbitration if they couldn’t work it out. A non-guaranteed contract in disguise would never fly

[connorp]

There’s no precedent for a non-guaranteed contract on a large scale. You can’t just introduce things and say “well the CBA doesn’t technically forbid it”

[John_Havok]

You’re not this ignorant. It doesn’t work like that amigo. The CBA is not a be-all-end-all that needs to provide every detail. When things happen that isn’t in the spirit of the CBA to one side, it would go to arbitration if they couldn’t work it out. A non-guaranteed contract in disguise would never fly

 

It’s not as hard as you’re making it out to be though. It’s very common for pitchers to have escalating dollar contracts based on starts, innings pitched, etc. same for hitters.

 

Now, the entire contract couldn’t be built that way but I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that. Having a base salary of 30 million per year with escalators or bonuses based on starts wouldn’t be against any part of the CBA

[Jimcanuck]

You’re not this ignorant. It doesn’t work like that amigo. The CBA is not a be-all-end-all that needs to provide every detail. When things happen that isn’t in the spirit of the CBA to one side, it would go to arbitration if they couldn’t work it out. A non-guaranteed contract in disguise would never fly

 

You are wrong, the intent of the parties is what is written and signed off on. No idea what you mean by "spirit", that is meaningless.

[Jimcanuck]

There’s no precedent for a non-guaranteed contract on a large scale. You can’t just introduce things and say “well the CBA doesn’t technically forbid it”

 

Of course you can, lol

[Stangstag]

An important question: how long can Ohtani be a two-way player for and perform at a solid-elite level for both? Does he give up pitching half way through his contract lets say if he suffers a major injury and just focusing on being a DH? As a front office, you would want to make sure if you're handing Ohtani a $500 million contract that he hits and pitches for majority of that contract. If he isn't pitching like an ace or No. 2-3 starter in his later years, that contract could be a disaster.

 

Even if he gives up pitching, he could probably be a solid corner OF into his late 30s

[connorp]

Of course you can, lol

 

Guess you’ve never been involved with a union lol

[Stangstag]

You’re not this ignorant. It doesn’t work like that amigo. The CBA is not a be-all-end-all that needs to provide every detail. When things happen that isn’t in the spirit of the CBA to one side, it would go to arbitration if they couldn’t work it out. A non-guaranteed contract in disguise would never fly

 

I agree, because it would set a terrible precedent for the average player too. Or oft-injured guys like Syndergaard, Buxton, etc. MLBPA would never allow it

[connorp]

It’s not as hard as you’re making it out to be though. It’s very common for pitchers to have escalating dollar contracts based on starts, innings pitched, etc. same for hitters.

 

Now, the entire contract couldn’t be built that way but I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that. Having a base salary of 30 million per year with escalators or bonuses based on starts wouldn’t be against any part of the CBA

 

Well, that is more in line with what’s reasonable. I was thinking something more dramatic was being suggested. I could’ve misread the room

[Jimcanuck]

Guess you’ve never been involved with a union lol

 

Dealt with unions for many years

[Jimcanuck]

I agree, because it would set a terrible precedent for the average player too. Or oft-injured guys like Syndergaard, Buxton, etc. MLBPA would never allow it

 

Doesn't affect any other player. Every player strikes their own bargain, within the rules that have been set.

[connorp]

Dealt with unions for many years

 

Apparently not, or it was Disneyland where everyone had a magical relationship. As an example, even if something is spelled out clear as day in a CBA, you can’t enforce it if there’s not precedence of enforcing it. As soon as you try to enforce it, you’d get a grievance. Been through it many times. A little different scenario obviously

 

Anyways, if you honestly think the MLBPA would sit on their hands when a clear non-guaranteed was signed, you’re a fruit loop

[Jimcanuck]

Apparently not, or it was Disneyland where everyone had a magical relationship. As an example, even if something is spelled out clear as day in a CBA, you can’t enforce it if there’s not precedence of enforcing it. As soon as you try to enforce it, you’d get a grievance. Been through it many times. A little different scenario obviously

 

Anyways, if you honestly think the MLBPA would sit on their hands when a clear non-guaranteed was signed, you’re a fruit loop

 

it wouldn't be a non-guaranteed, it would be a guaranteed with bonuses

 

and sure if the union agreement has a condition that hasn't been enforced, law of waiver applies and any future attempt to enforce it probably won't fly. that has nothing to do with what is being discussed

[Laika]

There’s no precedent for a non-guaranteed contract on a large scale. You can’t just introduce things and say “well the CBA doesn’t technically forbid it”

 

Is it a penalty for getting hurt or a bonus for staying healthy?

 

It depends on the details. The actual cutoffs and dollar figures

 

Not sure the mlbpa would be too perturbed if the guaranteed amount is high enough.

[connorp]

Is it a penalty for getting hurt or a bonus for staying healthy?

 

It depends on the details. The actual cutoffs and dollar figures

 

Well yeah, I mean if the guaranteed portion is an acceptable amount, then it probably doesn’t get grieved. But if it’s not, it would. But you cant just introduce a 10/100 guaranteed deal that could be worth 10/300m ala NFL. Jim was clearly suggesting you could if it doesn’t run afoul of the CBA states. He’s wrong

[Laika]

Well yeah, I mean if the guaranteed portion is an acceptable amount, then it probably doesn’t get grieved. But if it’s not, it would. But you cant just introduce a 10/100 guaranteed deal that could be worth 10/300m ala NFL. Jim was clearly suggesting you could if it doesn’t run afoul of the CBA states. He’s wrong

 

Yeah a team could TRY but the PA would very strongly tell the player not to do it. A rogue player could still take it though

[Jimcanuck]

Well yeah, I mean if the guaranteed portion is an acceptable amount, then it probably doesn’t get grieved. But if it’s not, it would. But you cant just introduce a 10/100 guaranteed deal that could be worth 10/300m ala NFL. Jim was clearly suggesting you could if it doesn’t run afoul of the CBA states. He’s wrong

 

FFS connor I suggested no such thing..... f***ing moron

[connorp]

Yeah a team could TRY but the PA would very strongly tell the player not to do it. A rogue player could still take it though

 

MLBPA doesn’t need players permission to get involved in something that effects the PA. I remember a time A-Rod tried to facilitate a buyout on his contract to facilitate a trade. Although it wasn’t spelled out in the CBA, because there was no precedent and because it could have a majorly damaging impact on the PA, Union squashed it despite players wishes

[Laika]

MLBPA doesn’t need players permission to get involved in something that effects the PA. I remember a time A-Rod tried to facilitate a buyout on his contract to facilitate a trade. Although it wasn’t spelled out in the CBA, because there was no precedent and because it could have a majorly damaging impact on the PA, Union squashed it despite players wishes

 

They must have had a specific CBA based reason or power for intervening in that instance.

[connorp]

FFS connor I suggested no such thing..... f***ing moron

 

Don’t you always whine like a b when someone calls you a name in a debate? Almost 100% positive that’s the case

[Jimcanuck]

MLBPA doesn’t need players permission to get involved in something that effects the PA. I remember a time A-Rod tried to facilitate a buyout on his contract to facilitate a trade. Although it wasn’t spelled out in the CBA, because there was no precedent and because it could have a majorly damaging impact on the PA, Union squashed it despite players wishes

 

If the CBA doesn't cover it, MLBPA is fully within its rights to not allow it

[connorp]

They must have had a specific CBA based reason or power for intervening in that instance.

 

Precedent bro. Introducing radical changes. They can always go in and find vague language to base it on.

[Jimcanuck]

Don’t you always whine like a b when someone calls you a name in a debate? Almost 100% positive that’s the case

 

When you miscontrue what others have posted, the name calling is fully warranted

[Jimcanuck]

Precedent bro. Introducing radical changes. They can always go in and find vague language to base it on.

 

Not really. The CBA will have specific terms regarding contract terminations, and what A-Rod wanted to do wasn't in those terms.

 

The bar is very high to imply terms to a Contract. What you are suggesting happens is very rare.

[connorp]

If the CBA doesn't cover it, MLBPA is fully within its rights to not allow it

 

Anyways, the PA would definitely grieve and even if after arb the PA lost, the player that decided to take his non-guaranteed deal would be hated by all the players and union officials alike.

[connorp]

When you miscontrue what others have posted, the name calling is fully warranted

 

Lol. So you decide when it’s warranted? Nice

[Jimcanuck]

So anyway

 

$30M guaranteed rising to $60M based on playing time, or

 

$45M guaranteed

 

As Shohei Ohtani, what do you take?

[John_Havok]

So anyway

 

$30M guaranteed rising to $60M based on playing time, or

 

$45M guaranteed

 

As Shohei Ohtani, what do you take?

 

The 30/60 would never be on the table, that’s too much.

 

Couple things to remember here, while he is a bit of a unicorn, he doesn’t pitch a full starters schedule and doesn’t hit a full hitters schedule and really doesn’t play D when not pitching.

 

Therefore he’s not gonna be out there putting up 12+ fWAR seasons that he would need to be to justify that 60m per year kind of deal. His overall mark would still have to be in line with dollars per WAR valuations or it wouldn’t make sense.

 

This year, he’s at 4 fWAR at about the halfway mark. Let’s assume he keeps that pace and ends at 8 fWAR, give or take .5.

 

Is an 8 fWAR player in line for 60 million per year?

[Carlos Danger]

Why was Bassit scratched from his start tonight and placed on IL Red flag with white cross but it is a non-injury issue???