Bigger Priority to Re-Sign: Semien or Ray?

[Stangstag]

If I had my druthers I would take Semien for the simple reason I am wary of pitchers on 4+ year deals which is what Ray is going to get. Hope his body holds up.

Reality is the vibe I get from Semien is that he won't be beholden to the Jays for this career season. I think he's gonna go.

If Ray signs here we get a guy who wants to be here. Win/Win for both sides.

 

Scary thought.....they both leave.

 

Well... if they both walk im gonna assume we go out and get someone like Correa or Story + pitcher

[Solaxys]

I saw an interview with Semein in the last week or so and he said its not just about money, geography counts as well. With his wife and kids not with him as they are back in the Bay area where he grew up and played many years with Oakland, I dont see him back. I hope im wrong. If San Fran stepped up I think he would do that in a heart beat...I will try to find a link.

 

Oh no, not another Kawhi

[Spanky99]

Kimbrel suxxx again.

[RobinThicc]

f*** it keep both

[Eat My Shatkins]

Definitely want to keep both, but if I had to choose I pick Ray.

 

He's our ace right now, plus Ryu is over 35 with two years left, and Berrios is only under control for one more season. (although I think they'll get him extended)

[Eat My Shatkins]

Semien is almost 31 now though, if he won't sign it might be a blessing in disguise to be honest.

 

Take that money and go as hard as you can after Correa.

[max silver]

Semien is almost 31 now though, if he won't sign it might be a blessing in disguise to be honest.

 

Take that money and go as hard as you can after Correa.

 

If the Jays were able to get Semien to sign I would honestly prefer him over Correa. Correa is likely to receive one of these 10 year mega contracts, and he's had a lot of trouble staying on the field during his career. Semien is basically like the current day version of Cal Ripken who plays every day, and a 5 year deal for him would make it easier to work in extensions for the young core when the time comes compared to adding a contract the likes of which it will take to land a player like Correa.

[Eat My Shatkins]

If the Jays were able to get Semien to sign I would honestly prefer him over Correa. Correa is likely to receive one of these 10 year mega contracts, and he's had a lot of trouble staying on the field during his career. Semien is basically like the current day version of Cal Ripken who plays every day, and a 5 year deal for him would make it easier to work in extensions for the young core when the time comes compared to adding a contract the likes of which it will take to land a player like Correa.

 

These are fair points I suppose.

[gruber92]

Semien is most likely going back to the state of California, Ray will be the easier target.

 

Anybody ever ponder the thought of leaving Bo at short and signing a second tier middle infielder while replacing Semien's numbers with a free agent outfielder like Castellanos or S.Marte? Gives you the luxury to use Gurriel or Teo in a trade as the nucleus in possibly landing JRam? I'd personally use Gurriel and I think Cleveland would definitely be liking his cheap contract. Gotta include more young talent obviously like Pearson, Groshans. Maybe sweeten it up with some B types like Otto Lopez and Samad Taylor. If they're holding out for Moreno or Orelvis, tell them to walk.

[max silver]

Semien is most likely going back to the state of California, Ray will be the easier target.

 

Anybody ever ponder the thought of leaving Bo at short and signing a second tier middle infielder while replacing Semien's numbers with a free agent outfielder like Castellanos or S.Marte? Gives you the luxury to use Gurriel or Teo in a trade as the nucleus in possibly landing JRam? I'd personally use Gurriel and I think Cleveland would definitely be liking his cheap contract. Gotta include more young talent obviously like Pearson, Groshans. Maybe sweeten it up with some B types like Otto Lopez and Samad Taylor. If they're holding out for Moreno or Orelvis, tell them to walk.

 

If the Jays were to lose out on Semien I would prefer they just return Biggio to second base for next year. He's a cost controlled option that plays a decent second base. My fallback Semien option would be to upgrade at third base through free agency with somebody like Kris Bryant.

[gruber92]

If the Jays were to lose out on Semien I would prefer they just return Biggio to second base for next year. He's a cost controlled option that plays a decent second base. My fallback Semien option would be to upgrade at third base through free agency with somebody like Kris Bryant.

 

Bryant is interesting. I'm not crazy about Biggio's body of work at second, turns the DP awkwardly and has a s***** arm.

[max silver]

Bryant is interesting. I'm not crazy about Biggio's body of work at second, turns the DP awkwardly and has a s***** arm.

 

I thought that Biggio was improving over time at second base. Admittedly his arm strength isn't great but it wasn't really much of a liability at second base given the shorter length of the throws involved. DRS and UZR saw him as basically average, although OAA was a little less generous showing him as a little below average at second.

[WryNGinger]

Based on team need and also to hopefully maximize the value of each contract I have to go with Ray here.

 

If the Jay's do not replace Marcus the offense will suffer but it also has more room to decline and still not affect total team performance as much as a lesser pitcher would if they replaced Ray.

[Buster]

I love Semian... But can't we replace his wins cheaper spread out elsewhere? The contract it would take to keep him out of California would be poor value. Ray will give a tiny bit of hometown discount I think.

[Spanky99]

Bryant is interesting. I'm not crazy about Biggio's body of work at second, turns the DP awkwardly and has a s***** arm.

 

So now he suxx at 2nd, I've read it all, lol.

[glory]

I feel like Semien would be the better/safer investment, but as others have mentioned Ray is more important to the team from a construction standpoint. Replacing Ray would be very difficult. With Semien, if the Jays traded for someone like Matt Chapman (A's falling out of WC race and potentially moving out of Oakland so maybe it's possible) and moved Biggio back to 2B, then they would save money and probably be a wash value-wise (or only a minor downgrade). It's going to be harder to find a Ray replacement, even if you assume Ray's 2022-beyond won't be ace quality. Attracting pitching to Toronto is not easy as well.

 

Would Ray be easier to bring back? Who knows. It does seem like he likes the org and Pete Walker, and he's already signed back once. Jays are going to have to give him the best offer regardless. Semien always gave off the vibe that he was here because the Jays offered him the most money over one year. Now that his value is back up to normal and more teams will have $ to spend, maybe he'll value other things besides money now since he'll likely get a big deal from someone regardless.

[Stangstag]

Bryant is interesting. I'm not crazy about Biggio's body of work at second, turns the DP awkwardly and has a s***** arm.

 

Bryant probably gets 100 million at least, no? He’s an intriguing option... middle of the order bat that can play 3rd, corner outfield, and cover 1B when Vlad DH’s if needed.

[Ehjays]

Oh no, not another Kawhi

 

Not even close, he came here not in a trade but on his on accord, he switched positions, he put his money where his mouth is and he has performed as good as any 2nd baseman,

 

He gave Toronto a chance unlike most free agents, at a great price.

 

If he does leave we still get some value out of him with a pick so lets not place him with Kawhi

[Cynical]

I have nothing to back this you, but I get the impression that Simien would prefer going back to California.

[Sammy225]

Bryant is interesting. I'm not crazy about Biggio's body of work at second, turns the DP awkwardly and has a s***** arm.

 

I am kind of coming to the expectation that Biggio may not be apart of the team next year. You have to think that Groshans is knocking on the door of the team would he be a good option at 3rd base and either resign Semien or find a new 2nd baseman through free agency. Biggio may not have a lot of trade value but if we can get something for him to help out the pitching i think it they look at it. There are a lot of options going into the offseason in what we can do. I am loving LGJ but is his bat good enough to hide his obvious defensive short comings? We shall see.

 

I am so intrigued by how this off season is going to go. I think the must have is Ray and i think his relationship with Walker might give us the inside track so lets hope we wrap him up.

[Jimcanuck]

I am kind of coming to the expectation that Biggio may not be apart of the team next year. You have to think that Groshans is knocking on the door of the team would he be a good option at 3rd base and either resign Semien or find a new 2nd baseman through free agency. Biggio may not have a lot of trade value but if we can get something for him to help out the pitching i think it they look at it. There are a lot of options going into the offseason in what we can do. I am loving LGJ but is his bat good enough to hide his obvious defensive short comings? We shall see.

 

I am so intrigued by how this off season is going to go. I think the must have is Ray and i think his relationship with Walker might give us the inside track so lets hope we wrap him up.

 

It would be a sell low on Biggio (against Shatkins M.O.). Also think Orelvis will be knocking on the door before Groshans.

[Laika]

It would be a sell low on Biggio (against Shatkins M.O.). Also think Orelvis will be knocking on the door before Groshans.

 

Martinez only has 27 games in A+ and mediocre numbers there. Decent chance he starts 2022 at that level while Groshans is in AAA. I don't see how Orelvis knocks first unless your point is just that Groshans will never be the one who knocks in which case sure lol.

[Jimcanuck]

Martinez only has 27 games in A+ and mediocre numbers there. Decent chance he starts 2022 at that level while Groshans is in AAA. I don't see how Orelvis knocks first unless your point is just that Groshans will never be the one who knocks in which case sure lol.

 

Yes, 27 games. Everything before that small sample suggests he could move quickly.

[glory]

I am kind of coming to the expectation that Biggio may not be apart of the team next year. You have to think that Groshans is knocking on the door of the team would he be a good option at 3rd base and either resign Semien or find a new 2nd baseman through free agency. Biggio may not have a lot of trade value but if we can get something for him to help out the pitching i think it they look at it. There are a lot of options going into the offseason in what we can do. I am loving LGJ but is his bat good enough to hide his obvious defensive short comings? We shall see.

 

I am so intrigued by how this off season is going to go. I think the must have is Ray and i think his relationship with Walker might give us the inside track so lets hope we wrap him up.

 

The issue is Biggio's trade value at this point is probably so low that he provides more value to the team than he does in a trade. He still has four years of control left, was a good player prior to 2021, and also fills a position of need since they will need a 2B and 3B next season (assuming Semien leaves). If Semien does leave, then moving Biggio back to 2B and finding a 3B is probably the most sensible plan. If Ramirez and Chapman are available in the winter, then Groshans is a valuable trade piece (though it would require a lot more than that to get Ramirez.......not sure what Chapman's price would look like).

[Dr. Dinger]

I feel like Ray would take equal money to stay and Semien would take equal money to go. Ray seems to love Walker and pitching here, while Semien has done a Kyle Lowry level of interviews this season… aka none. But I’m actually okay with Semien leaving as his production can be replaced by Correa, Seager, Bryant, or Jose Ramirez, or Story, all of whom seem theoretically obtainable. Semi is having a monster year but I wouldn’t want to go beyond like 100/4 for him.

[wilko]

If you could only sign one I'd pick Ray.

[Omar]

The issue is Biggio's trade value at this point is probably so low that he provides more value to the team than he does in a trade. He still has four years of control left, was a good player prior to 2021, and also fills a position of need since they will need a 2B and 3B next season (assuming Semien leaves). If Semien does leave, then moving Biggio back to 2B and finding a 3B is probably the most sensible plan. If Ramirez and Chapman are available in the winter, then Groshans is a valuable trade piece (though it would require a lot more than that to get Ramirez.......not sure what Chapman's price would look like).

 

I think the organization will not give up on Biggio yet. If he plays 2b next season I think they will track Groshans to 3b and not go the trade route.

[EastCoaster]

I OK with resigning Ray but I wouldn't go overboard with money or long term wise. He's right at that age when things start to catch up with the body. The last thing I want to see is a Chris Sale or David Price scenario with mega dollars attached to the deal. Teams have gotten wiser now especially with pitchers with velocity and high inning pitched that's a disaster in the making and unfortunately it happens way to often.

[wilko]

I OK with resigning Ray but I wouldn't go overboard with money or long term wise. He's right at that age when things start to catch up with the body. The last thing I want to see is a Chris Sale or David Price scenario with mega dollars attached to the deal. Teams have gotten wiser now especially with pitchers with velocity and high inning pitched that's a disaster in the making and unfortunately it happens way to often.

 

He's 29...

[TheHurl]

He's 29...

 

He turns 30 on the last day of the regular season. Which is 2 months younger than Price was and 3 years older than Sale was, when they signed their deals. Corbin got 6 years at 29. Ryu was 32 when he signed his 4 year deal. Strasburg was 31 when he signed for 7 years. I think Ray seeks and can get 5 years.