Trevor Bauer discussion thread

[z3r0s]

well that's... an article alight.

 

Summary;

- The Dodgers have, and will continue to be damaged as a franchise for how they have handled this (not the alleged assault, but how they have handled the alleged assault).

- Investigation is still ongoing, but they need to proceed RIGHT NOW, regardless of that

- It will cost them like $100M, but that isn't important. (not his money I guess)

- It is against the rules, but they should do it anyway

- They will likely be sued by the union, but they should do it anyway

- Its the RIGHT THING TO DO to do the above, and that's all that matters. Due process is not the right thing (implied not stated).

[wilko]

well that's... an article alight.

 

Summary;

- The Dodgers have, and will continue to be damaged as a franchise for how they have handled this (not the alleged assault, but how they have handled the alleged assault).

- Investigation is still ongoing, but they need to proceed RIGHT NOW, regardless of that

- It will cost them like $100M, but that isn't important. (not his money I guess)

- It is against the rules, but they should do it anyway

- They will likely be sued by the union, but they should do it anyway

- Its the RIGHT THING TO DO to do the above, and that's all that matters. Due process is not the right thing (implied not stated).

 

So if this happens, could the Jays sign him for league minimum?

[z3r0s]

So if this happens, could the Jays sign him for league minimum?

 

yeah, but Shapiro is under the Mickey Callaway cloud from back in Clevland, so there's no way they would.

[King]

Friendly reminder that Domingo German punched his girlfriend at a team function in front of high level executives and is still pitching for the Yankees.

[Dr. Dinger]

Friendly reminder that Domingo German punched his girlfriend at a team function in front of high level executives and is still pitching for the Yankees.

 

Not true, he slapped her. They also continue to employ a pitcher who got into a fight with his girlfriend and then let off some steam by repeatedly discharging a firearm in the garage.

[King]

Not true, he slapped her. They also continue to employ a pitcher who got into a fight with his girlfriend and then let off some steam by repeatedly discharging a firearm in the garage.

My bad. Carry on.

[Krylian]

So if this happens, could the Jays sign him for league minimum?

 

The Astros would be at the front of the line

[Dick_Pole]

 

Is #learntocode still a thing? I feel like it should be a thing when pieces like this come out.

 

As a bonus I managed to find the Trevor Bauer arrest monitoring Twitter account:

 

 

One follower, lol.

[5ToolPhenom]

He still assaulted an unconscious woman and admitted to as much over the phone in a recorded conversation. The source for these latest details is also a bit questionable to say the least.

 

You can't claim it as an assault when both parties were willing and consenting. What seems like assault and torture to most people is simply average sexual behavior for those who are into the S&M stuff.

[connorp]

You can't claim it as an assault when both parties were willing and consenting. What seems like assault and torture to most people is simply average sexual behavior for those who are into the S&M stuff.

 

Yeah, don’t care what anyone says, she clearly was ok having sex while/before/after being choked unconscious. If he did do anything wrong, he’s basically like a john that went too far as someone said. IMO, a wife beater is lower on the humanity totem pole than a guy that roughs up a hooker a little more than she liked (supposedly)

[Dick_Pole]

Precedent has already been established in Germany that consent doesn't exonerate criminal behavior:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes

 

Let's see how it is in CA. Yes readers of this thread deserve to know of this story, if they aren't familiar with it already.

[Spanky99]

Precedent has already been established in Germany that consent doesn't exonerate criminal behavior:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiwes

 

Let's see how it is in CA. Yes readers of this thread deserve to know of this story, if they aren't familiar with it already.

 

Yeah, Laika and Terminator BJMB lawyers have already brought this up.

[Carlos Danger]

I don't know if this has been brought up yet. TBH, not going to go back and read every post.

 

However, I see it as implied consent and the courts will have to decide where the line is.

 

Example- You play in a hockey game and get in a fist fight, because it is hockey, under normal circumstances no charges. If you go out in the parking lot after the same game, and get in a fist fight, then there can and normally will be assault and battery charges depending on the vernacular in that particular jurisdiction.

 

Same thing with an MMA fight, UFC etc. Do that in the ring, you are fine. Do it in the bar after the fight is over, criminally liable.

 

Pay a girl for sex that is hanging out on the street corner, probably illegal and considered soliciting for prostitution.

 

Declare yourself a "Film Director", and start, "production company" pay a girl to have sex with you in a porn film, legal.

 

Now, in the case of hockey, there has been some court cases and there is now precedent as to what is a "normal" hockey fight" and what is a criminal offense. If I recall correctly it is some aggravating circumstances like you take off your skate and try and slice a guy across the neck etc.

 

What is NOT relevant is how much your are bleeding, if you have two swollen eyes that you can barely open, and all your teeth are knocked out, if you had any to begin with.

 

So, take the hockey fight analogy and use the same parameters for the Bauer case.

 

Implied consent to fight in a hockey game, and you could very well come away looking like you just got hit by a train, just from fists etc.

 

Implied consent to rough sex with hitting, choking etc..

 

IMO, the courts or precedent will have to decide IF and where that line is....

 

Would you want to be arrested in a hockey fight just because you are good fighter and you knocked the s*** out of your opponent? Or a UFC fight.. Just using your fists, feet etc.

[Spanky99]

Wtf??? lol

[Laika]

I don't know if this has been brought up yet. TBH, not going to go back and read every post.

 

However, I see it as implied consent and the courts will have to decide where the line is.

 

Example- You play in a hockey game and get in a fist fight, because it is hockey, under normal circumstances no charges. If you go out in the parking lot after the same game, and get in a fist fight, then there can and normally will be assault and battery charges depending on the vernacular in that particular jurisdiction.

 

Same thing with an MMA fight, UFC etc. Do that in the ring, you are fine. Do it in the bar after the fight is over, criminally liable.

 

Pay a girl for sex that is hanging out on the street corner, probably illegal and considered soliciting for prostitution.

 

Declare yourself a "Film Director", and start, "production company" pay a girl to have sex with you in a porn film, legal.

 

Now, in the case of hockey, there has been some court cases and there is now precedent as to what is a "normal" hockey fight" and what is a criminal offense. If I recall correctly it is some aggravating circumstances like you take off your skate and try and slice a guy across the neck etc.

 

What is NOT relevant is how much your are bleeding, if you have two swollen eyes that you can barely open, and all your teeth are knocked out, if you had any to begin with.

 

So, take the hockey fight analogy and use the same parameters for the Bauer case.

 

Implied consent to fight in a hockey game, and you could very well come away looking like you just got hit by a train, just from fists etc.

 

Implied consent to rough sex with hitting, choking etc..

 

IMO, the courts or precedent will have to decide IF and where that line is....

 

Would you want to be arrested in a hockey fight just because you are good fighter and you knocked the s*** out of your opponent? Or a UFC fight.. Just using your fists, feet etc.

 

bookmarking this masterpiece

[King]

I don't know if this has been brought up yet. TBH, not going to go back and read every post.

 

However, I see it as implied consent and the courts will have to decide where the line is.

 

Example- You play in a hockey game and get in a fist fight, because it is hockey, under normal circumstances no charges. If you go out in the parking lot after the same game, and get in a fist fight, then there can and normally will be assault and battery charges depending on the vernacular in that particular jurisdiction.

 

Same thing with an MMA fight, UFC etc. Do that in the ring, you are fine. Do it in the bar after the fight is over, criminally liable.

 

Pay a girl for sex that is hanging out on the street corner, probably illegal and considered soliciting for prostitution.

 

Declare yourself a "Film Director", and start, "production company" pay a girl to have sex with you in a porn film, legal.

 

Now, in the case of hockey, there has been some court cases and there is now precedent as to what is a "normal" hockey fight" and what is a criminal offense. If I recall correctly it is some aggravating circumstances like you take off your skate and try and slice a guy across the neck etc.

 

What is NOT relevant is how much your are bleeding, if you have two swollen eyes that you can barely open, and all your teeth are knocked out, if you had any to begin with.

 

So, take the hockey fight analogy and use the same parameters for the Bauer case.

 

Implied consent to fight in a hockey game, and you could very well come away looking like you just got hit by a train, just from fists etc.

 

Implied consent to rough sex with hitting, choking etc..

 

IMO, the courts or precedent will have to decide IF and where that line is....

 

Would you want to be arrested in a hockey fight just because you are good fighter and you knocked the s*** out of your opponent? Or a UFC fight.. Just using your fists, feet etc.

Post of the year candidate

[King]

[BTS]

I don't know if this has been brought up yet. TBH, not going to go back and read every post.

 

However, I see it as implied consent and the courts will have to decide where the line is.

 

Example- You play in a hockey game and get in a fist fight, because it is hockey, under normal circumstances no charges. If you go out in the parking lot after the same game, and get in a fist fight, then there can and normally will be assault and battery charges depending on the vernacular in that particular jurisdiction.

 

Same thing with an MMA fight, UFC etc. Do that in the ring, you are fine. Do it in the bar after the fight is over, criminally liable.

 

Pay a girl for sex that is hanging out on the street corner, probably illegal and considered soliciting for prostitution.

 

Declare yourself a "Film Director", and start, "production company" pay a girl to have sex with you in a porn film, legal.

 

Now, in the case of hockey, there has been some court cases and there is now precedent as to what is a "normal" hockey fight" and what is a criminal offense. If I recall correctly it is some aggravating circumstances like you take off your skate and try and slice a guy across the neck etc.

 

What is NOT relevant is how much your are bleeding, if you have two swollen eyes that you can barely open, and all your teeth are knocked out, if you had any to begin with.

 

So, take the hockey fight analogy and use the same parameters for the Bauer case.

 

Implied consent to fight in a hockey game, and you could very well come away looking like you just got hit by a train, just from fists etc.

 

Implied consent to rough sex with hitting, choking etc..

 

IMO, the courts or precedent will have to decide IF and where that line is....

 

Would you want to be arrested in a hockey fight just because you are good fighter and you knocked the s*** out of your opponent? Or a UFC fight.. Just using your fists, feet etc.

 

During high school, I played junior hockey and still hold two league records: most time spent in the penalty box; and I was the only guy to ever take off his skate and try to stab somebody.

[King]

Not sure I would be admitting to attempted murder given the high chance that the feds monitor this board on the regular.

[Carlos Danger]

I was the only guy to ever take off his skate and try to stab somebody.

 

Savage! LOL You seem so docile on this board, I would never have guessed.

[connorp]

If two stockbrokers decide to box each other in an unsanctioned match and one person gets upset they end up with a broken tooth and they didn’t think that would happen, would that be a good case for assault? By the letter of the law it would be but the matter would prob find its way to civil court instead.

 

Why is that level of pleasure violence ok in a sport setting but not sex. Don’t see any reason other than one is taboo and the other isn’t

 

So if that’s something like what CD was going for, I get it

[connorp]

For the record I’ve read about gyms in NYC where that is commonplace

[Laika]

If two stockbrokers decide to box each other in an unsanctioned match and one person gets upset they end up with a broken tooth and they didn’t think that would happen, would that be a good case for assault? By the letter of the law it would be but the matter would prob find its way to civil court instead.

 

Why is that level of pleasure violence ok in a sport setting but not sex. Don’t see any reason other than one is taboo and the other isn’t

 

So if that’s something like what CD was going for, I get it

 

It is okay during sex, well at least in most jurisdictions. I will give you some helpful examples as far as I understand the law in Canada:

 

- If you consent to play a sport and get hurt in the normal course of that sport, does your consent to playing make the person who hurt you safe from criminal charges? YES. No assault. It is in the public interest to allow this type of consent or "implied consent" for potential injury.

- If you consent to a street fight and suffer bodily injury, does your consent make the other combatant safe from charges? NO. It is Assault. It is not in the public interest to allow this type of consent for injury.

- If you consent to BDSM and the infliction of pain upon your body for sexual gratification, is the other participant safe from charges? UNCLEAR. Most analysts would agree that if consent was explicit for all acts and there was no non-superficial "bodily harm" then there would be no assault. Previous Supreme Court Cases actually would make you believe that rough sex is NOT in the public interest so you cannot consent to be harmed during sex, but a modern re-trying of those principles would probably find that to be bad/outdated legal opinion.

- If you consent to being choked out and having vaginal sex performed on you while out, is the other participant liable? YES. This is assault under Canadian law. As soon as you lose the ability to withdraw consent at any moment, your consent is no longer valid.

- If you consent to "rough sex" and a dick ends up in your butt while you are passed out and that sex act was never specified, is the other participant in trouble? OF COURSE. There is no "implied consent" for anal rape or any other sex acts, really.

[Spanky99]

 

And the beat goes on, no pun intended. *sighs*

[Brownie19]

It is okay during sex, well at least in most jurisdictions. I will give you some helpful examples as far as I understand the law in Canada:

 

- If you consent to play a sport and get hurt in the normal course of that sport, does your consent to playing make the person who hurt you safe from criminal charges? YES. No assault. It is in the public interest to allow this type of consent or "implied consent" for potential injury.

 

This one fascinates me. If one kid fights another kid during a high school basketball game and beats the living piss out of him, is that considered a 'normal course of that sport'? What about if that happens in a high school curling match? football? baseball? Do age groups matter? Is there ever a situation where a minor gets the s*** beat out of him and it shouldn't be considered assault? I think not, with the exception perhaps being MMA, boxing, martial arts, etc. I might be OK with that.

 

I'll assume that some will answer 'no' to some/all of my questions above, so why is it considered OK in hockey? I mean at the minor hockey level, you're immediately kicked out of the game - so it shouldn't be considered 'part of the game'. If it were 'part of the game', you wouldn't be kicked out. Is it 'part of the game' when playing beer league hockey? I mean who the f*** signs up for that? We all have to work in the morning.

 

The only time I could buy the argument it should be 'part of the game' is once you're an adult and it's considered professional.

 

Otherwise, the decision to punch someone in the face because you're mad at them should have the same consequences during the sport as it would in the parking lot after the game.

[Carlos Danger]

This one fascinates me. If one kid fights another kid during a high school basketball game and beats the living piss out of him, is that considered a 'normal course of that sport'? What about if that happens in a high school curling match? football? baseball? Do age groups matter? Is there ever a situation where a minor gets the s*** beat out of him and it shouldn't be considered assault? I think not, with the exception perhaps being MMA, boxing, martial arts, etc. I might be OK with that.

 

I'll assume that some will answer 'no' to some/all of my questions above, so why is it considered OK in hockey? I mean at the minor hockey level, you're immediately kicked out of the game - so it shouldn't be considered 'part of the game'. If it were 'part of the game', you wouldn't be kicked out. Is it 'part of the game' when playing beer league hockey? I mean who the f*** signs up for that? We all have to work in the morning.

 

The only time I could buy the argument it should be 'part of the game' is once you're an adult and it's considered professional.

 

Otherwise, the decision to punch someone in the face because you're mad at them should have the same consequences during the sport as it would in the parking lot after the game.

 

It is not just hockey. How many times do you see criminal charges in a baseball fight.. Canada vs Mexico, Pedro vs the Yankees, NBA fight, Junior hockey fight, not just NHL... Canada vs the Soviets (Best ever!!).. Man, Canada really likes to fight..LOL

 

Getting kicked out of a league or a suspension is an administrate action. We are discussing the threshold for criminal charges.. So, just because you can be suspended for something or "kicked out" doesn't mean you broke any laws....

[Jimcanuck]

Hockey is a violent sport to begin with. So say the NHL bans fighting, which would mean the bar for being charged with assault for an on ice punching incident is lowered.

 

But what about spearing, or knee on knee, or hitting from behind at high speed into the boards. These actions are more dangerous than throwing a punch or two.

 

It's generally very difficult to separate out game actions from a bonafide intent to injure / maim. Where the intent to injure is quite obvious, players have been and will be charged. The famous incidents involve Bertuzzi, MacSorley, and Ciccarelli, all charged and guilty.

[Brownie19]

It is not just hockey. How many times do you see criminal charges in a baseball fight.. Canada vs Mexico, Pedro vs the Yankees, NBA fight, Junior hockey fight, not just NHL... Canada vs the Soviets (Best ever!!).. Man, Canada really likes to fight..LOL

 

Getting kicked out of a league or a suspension is an administrate action. We are discussing the threshold for criminal charges.. So, just because you can be suspended for something or "kicked out" doesn't mean you broke any laws....

 

Why would fighting be considered part of the 'implied consent' when you get kicked out of the game if it happens. I mean if you get an elbowing penalty, that's a type of assault, but you aren't removed from the game (just penalized) and thus one would think that's more 'part of the game'.

 

And I'm definitely talking more about youth/amateur sports. If a fight broke out during a curling match - would it fall under 'implied consent' or would it be considered assault? Would that be any different than a baseball game? If so, why? Both are non-contact sports.

 

That said - I do get Jim's point about why would fists be anymore or less assault than spearing someone with a hockey stick (especially if it's deliberate). I guess if people successful sued players for spearing them on purpose, then players would end up being a lot more careful with their actions (maybe that's a good thing - but maybe not). That said - I would argue there are thousands of cases where players attempt to injure others that are very obvious that do not result in lawsuits. Quoting 3 cases over the past say 40 years doesn't cut it (we'll assume s*** that happened pre 1980's doesn't count because everyone was a barbarian back then).

 

f*** - was Millbury every charged with assault for beating that fan up with his own shoe? How about Domi for fighting the guy who fell into the penalty box? I think we become desensitized because it's 'always been that way' and stop using our brains.

[Spanky99]

Oh please, make it staaawp!!!!!

[connorp]

Oh please, make it staaawp!!!!!

 

Couple more shots Spanky it’ll all just go away