Off Day Discussion #3: Who on the current team should the Blue Jays extend?

[Laika]

I get that....I'm playing the crystal ball game. If his defense does continue to improve at its current rate and he does get to that elite D level, how does an elite defensive 1B compare to an elite defensive SS (value wise). Understand it's not the same in reality...but from a contractual standpoint, do you really think you'd see much of a difference?

 

Yeah, huge difference. The massivo contractos all tend to be players with real defensive value - good outfielders or shortstops. Stanton wasn't a DH when he signed his extension, remember. We haven't had a 1B/DH break $250M. I believe Pujols was 10/240 and Miggy was 8/248. Votto 10/225. Fielder 9/214. If you are on the Toronto management side of things those are the precedents you are pulling out in negotiations. There really isn't a precedent for anybody giving a s*** about 1B defense when it comes to these big deals.

[Brownie19]

When you combine his bat with the massive improvements on defense and the base paths - Vlad is looking a lot like a young Pujols these days. Pujols was larger than life for those first 10-12 years.

 

Interestingly enough, Pujols, Miggy and Votto all really started declining around their age 33 season.

[Olerud363]

I get that....I'm playing the crystal ball game. If his defense does continue to improve at its current rate and he does get to that elite D level, how does an elite defensive 1B compare to an elite defensive SS (value wise). Understand it's not the same in reality...but from a contractual standpoint, do you really think you'd see much of a difference?

 

About 3 wins.

 

However Acuna and Tatis are not showing up as ++ defenders on fangraphs at least... In fact Vladdy, Acuna and Tatis have about the same defensive value this year.

 

Great defensive Players (3 wins)

 

Ozzie Smith, Cal Ripken, Devon White, Andrelton Simmons, Keirmier have been 3 wins.

 

Acuna and Tatis are like 0 wins according to the stats.

 

However maybe they are paid like they are awesome defensively, and lighting cat Vlad at first is providing almost as much value this year.

 

Don't tell anybody that. Just say Vladimir Guerrero jr can hit the ball, but has no defensive value so shouldn't get Tatis money. Give him 11 220 instead.

[Olerud363]

I get that....I'm playing the crystal ball game. If his defense does continue to improve at its current rate and he does get to that elite D level, how does an elite defensive 1B compare to an elite defensive SS (value wise). Understand it's not the same in reality...but from a contractual standpoint, do you really think you'd see much of a difference?

 

Roughly (in terms of wins)

 

Great SS/CF (Ripken/White/K.) : +3 wins

Mediocre SS/OF (Tatis/Acuna) : 0 wins

Great 1b (Lightning Cat VGJ, Olerud, Eddie Murray) : 0 wins

Fat 1b (Frank Thomas, 291 pound VGJ) : -2 wins (negative)

[The Cats Ass]

Robbie Ray

[saskjayfan]

Robbie Ray

 

Yes, but at what number?

[BTS]

I don't think Teo is going to hit 5 WAR.

[G-Snarls]

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by G-Snarls

[Ray]

Is there any way this nucleus of Bichette, Vladdy, Biggio, Teoscar might take a slight discount to stay and play together in Toronto? These guys have come up together all the way from the lower minors and are now having success in the majors together. I feel like they are pretty tight knit.

 

....probably not, but one can dream.

[Jimcanuck]

Is there any way this nucleus of Bichette, Vladdy, Biggio, Teoscar might take a slight discount to stay and play together in Toronto? These guys have come up together all the way from the lower minors and are now having success in the majors together. I feel like they are pretty tight knit.

 

....probably not, but one can dream.

 

One of them might. I can see Teoscar doing it. All four, never.

[Ray]

Robbie Ray is such a hard guy to gauge from a contract perspective.

 

I'd be comfortable giving him 4 years, $64M if he keeps what he's doing up. Yet at the same time, you feel like he's a ticking time bomb and he'll forget to throw strikes again. He might just make it easy on us and take a QO to prove this is the new him and set himself up for an even bigger contract next offseason (with the new CBA as well).

[Stangstag]

Is there any way this nucleus of Bichette, Vladdy, Biggio, Teoscar might take a slight discount to stay and play together in Toronto? These guys have come up together all the way from the lower minors and are now having success in the majors together. I feel like they are pretty tight knit.

 

....probably not, but one can dream.

 

I’d bet we retain Vladdy and Cavan, maybe Teo.

 

Have a feeling Bo will be the one to test free agency, and we might let him walk.

[glory]

If Ray keeps this up he’d be someone I’d give the QO to, but I’d be wary of a long term deal. Although if there is a price and term that makes sense for both sides, then it’s worth looking into.

[G-Snarls]

If Ray keeps this up he’d be someone I’d give the QO to, but I’d be wary of a long term deal. Although if there is a price and term that makes sense for both sides, then it’s worth looking into.

 

Yes

 

I'd be happy with 1 year at 18 ish M or 2-3 years at less than that

[G-Snarls]

Stripling has been excellent lately and he still has two ARB years left

 

That's kinda nice

[Ray]

Stripling has been excellent lately and he still has two ARB years left

 

That's kinda nice

 

Only 1 more year left actually (he's a free agent after 2022).

 

But it's trending towards a good trade right now.

[Krylian]

Stripling has been excellent lately and he still has two ARB years left

 

That's kinda nice

 

He is looking real solid. I wasn't convinced that he'd turn it around like this.

[G-Snarls]

He is looking real solid. I wasn't convinced that he'd turn it around like this.

 

Me neither

 

Thought he was just a semi OK swing man

[G-Snarls]

Only 1 more year left actually (he's a free agent after 2022).

 

But it's trending towards a good trade right now.

 

Oh yeah. I miss read high bbref page