Around Baseball 2021

[RobinThicc]

Can’t really get mad at passing on Lindor, there are like 5 all star free agent shortstops next offseason that we can sign for cash without giving up prospects.

Planning on signing a key FA doesnt seem like the best strategy for the Blue Jays

[Abomination]

I don't think I would be happy about that deal if it was to the Jays, particularly if there's no agreed upon extension.

[Angrioter]

 

Ken Rosenthal

@Ken_Rosenthal

 

Full trade, per sources:

 

To Mets: Francisco Lindor and Carlos Carrasco.

 

To Indians: Amed Rosario, Andrés Giménez, Josh Wolf, Isaiah Greene.

 

José Reyes trade

[BTS]

*spending money only if we get big name players for rock bottom prices. I won't continue to hold my breath...

 

I don't think they're looking for "rock bottom" prices. They outbid everyone for Ryu last year, because they were still comfortable with the terms. There are probably a few very good players that they're willing to pay more for than anyone else is.

[G-Snarls]

I don't think they're looking for "rock bottom" prices. They outbid everyone for Ryu last year, because they were still comfortable with the terms.

 

Hopefully they like the terms they can reach with Springer and Turner

 

(Except Turner likely goes back to the Dodgers when he sees no one is giving him a 4 year deal)

[L54]

This is a big domino to fall and I'm glad it wasn't the Jays. Its a sexy splash but I didn't think it was a necessary one.

[BTS]

This is a big domino to fall and I'm glad it wasn't the Jays. Its a sexy splash but I didn't think it was a necessary one.

 

Especially if it ends up being a rental or an extension closer to $300M than $200M. I liked the idea of acquiring Lindor, but obviously a bunch of things had to fall into place for that to make sense.

[Jays24]

Hopefully they like the terms they can reach with Springer and Turner

 

If Springer goes to the Mets now too... its time to waive the white flag for the offseason lol.

[G-Snarls]

Especially if it ends up being a rental or an extension closer to $300M than $200M. I liked the idea of acquiring Lindor, but obviously a bunch of things had to fall into place for that to make sense.

 

This year:

 

Springer

A #2-3 caliber SP

Bullpen help

 

Next year

Lindor/Correa/Story

[BTS]

This year:

 

Springer

A #2-3 caliber SP

Bullpen help

 

Next year

Lindor/Correa/Story

 

Yup. Only I like the idea of Bauer and a Brantley type more than Springer and and SP 2/3. I think Springer is more likely though.

[Jays24]

I don't think they're looking for "rock bottom" prices. They outbid everyone for Ryu last year, because they were still comfortable with the terms. There are probably a few very good players that they're willing to pay more for than anyone else is.

 

Ya let's see how the offseason goes but I really thought this package was ours for the taking. Now if we can sign free agents without having to give up our prospects, we come out better here. But there's some hesitancy to think that.

[glory]

Hopefully they like the terms they can reach with Springer and Turner

 

I don't know about Turner, but I wonder if the chances of getting Springer have increased now. Cohen is ridiculously wealthy, but assuming they can extend Lindor, do the Mets want to spend $55-60M for two players for the next 5-10 years? Stroman and Syndergaard are FA's after 2021 so their rotation will need to be retooled in 2022-beyond as well. I mean, they could totally sign Springer, but it wouldn't shock me at all if they pull a McCann and go for the cheaper JBJ at this point and spend the rest on other holes (SP/RP).

[saskjayfan]

José Reyes trade

 

Does this mean they are out on Springer? They have Conforto, Syndergaard and Stroman to deal with next year. I'm assuming they want to keep 2 of those guys and I'm assuming Lindor signs a big extension getting 30+ mil a season. With Cano money coming back on the books next year having Cano, Lindor, DeGrom plus Syndergaard and Conforto adding Springer to that might be a bit much if they don't plan on exceeding the luxury tax.

[G-Snarls]

`

I don't know about Turner, but I wonder if the chances of getting Springer have increased now. Cohen is ridiculously wealthy, but assuming they can extend Lindor, do the Mets want to spend $55-60M for two players for the next 5-10 years? Stroman and Syndergaard are FA's after 2021 so their rotation will need to be retooled in 2022-beyond as well. I mean, they could totally sign Springer, but it wouldn't shock me at all if they pull a McCann and go for the cheaper JBJ at this point and spend the rest on other holes (SP/RP).

 

Yeah. Turner likely goes back to the Dodgers when he sees no one is giving him a 4 year deal.

[gruber92]

I can't see the Mets making this deal without being at least 90% sure they're signing Lindor to an extension. I would love a DJL signing with his defensive versatility and that bat.. I guess not landing Lindor has an upside of not losing prospect capital. We haven't heard much on Realmuto which actually makes me optimistic on possibly landing him. Realmuto/Moreno/Kirk combo would be nice.

[saskjayfan]

I can't see the Mets making this deal without being at least 90% sure they're signing Lindor to an extension. I would love a DJL signing with his defensive versatility and that bat.. I guess not landing Lindor has an upside of not losing prospect capital. We haven't heard much on Realmuto which actually makes me optimistic on possibly landing him. Realmuto/Moreno/Kirk combo would be nice.

 

What I don't get is they wanted Gurriel from us plus prospects. Giminez and Rosario aren't near as good as Gurriel IMO. I think Gurriel is only improving with the bat. This return looks light, but they seemed to be asking the world from us.

[connorp]

Lindor extension now seems to lack upside. He most likely wants huge star pay now, so he if has really good season price won’t really go up much. On the flip, if he’s ho-hum again it might give them pause to sign an 8-10yr deal

 

If he’s really good for the Mets and meshes well, its unlikely anyone would outbid Mets for his FA contract

[RobinThicc]

What I don't get is they wanted Gurriel from us plus prospects. Giminez and Rosario aren't near as good as Gurriel IMO. I think Gurriel is only improving with the bat. This return looks light, but they seemed to be asking the world from us.

 

Well seems to me that asking price probably wasnt actually gurriel and that was just speculation from some.

[gruber92]

What I don't get is they wanted Gurriel from us plus prospects. Giminez and Rosario aren't near as good as Gurriel IMO. I think Gurriel is only improving with the bat. This return looks light, but they seemed to be asking the world from us.

 

Probably because Cleveland felt the chances of Lindor signing an extension with us was highly probable, given the relationship he has with Shatkins. Now that I'm thinking about it more, it's probably best under the current scenario that we didn't trade for him. DJL please for the love of God.

[G-Snarls]

Nobody is going to be more upset about this than Terry Francona

[Brownie19]

If this happens, I'm already setting myself up for a huge disappointing offseason. Why the f*** can't we have nice things...

 

You've been setting yourself up for disappoint this whole time man.

[Brownie19]

C'mon Shatkins step the f*** up. Lindor would have been a perfect fit here.

 

You keep judging while having about 1% of the information Gruber. Great job.

[Jays24]

You've been setting yourself up for disappoint this whole time man.

 

It was such a perfect fit man, especially with the Shatkins connection to the Indians/Lindor. If they weren't going to swing big there then where will they swing big...

 

Lots of offseaaon left so we'll see how things unfold.

[Brownie19]

Don't pull a Raptors hoping something will be available in the future and plan your current moves around that. Just not a good way of managing.

 

And we're pretty much dealing with one other buyer in this market, there will be many more buyers next offseason. There will always be an excuse for us to not make the big move.

 

1. You have no idea whether the Raptors were managing that way. You can't be naïve enough to really think Masai put all his eggs in one basket.

 

2. Most big splash moves don't work out - that's typically the excuse for not making them. You don't have to like that (I don't either), but you should acknowledge it.

[Laika]

Pretty mediocre return for adding Carrasco, I would say.

 

Rosario is okay but more of a 2 or 3 year placeholder, now entering arb. He's a player who is kind of playing at his floor so maybe there is upside left.

Gimenez is a slapdick prospect who you would just expect to be as good as Rosario. He has trade value though as a 50 FV six year infielder.

Don't know much about Wolf and Greene but they are further away HS picks.. Dasan Brown types I guess.

 

Makes me wonder how much more then even got by adding Carrasco. Shouldn't Lindor alone have been able to fetch Rosario, Wolf, and Greene?

 

HMmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Jays24]

1. You have no idea whether the Raptors were managing that way. You can't be naïve enough to really think Masai put all his eggs in one basket.

 

2. Most big splash moves don't work out - that's typically the excuse for not making them. You don't have to like that (I don't either), but you should acknowledge it.

 

It was all but confirmed by Masai himself that his moves were being made to ensure we had max space for Giannis in 2021. We structured Fred's extension to allow for that. Now where this totally killed us is that we let Ibaka and Gasol get away for nothing because we didn't want to commit past this year. Take a look at how bad that move is killing the Raptors right now. We're 1 and 6 because our centers SUCK.

[Brownie19]

Does anyone know the prospect equivalence for us if we made this trade?

 

Curious what the board experts say to this, but it certainly looks more like Jansen could have been the MLB player centrepiece. Gimenez was MLB's 60th best propsect in 2019, so maybe our comparable is Groshans (who's currently listed as the 70th).

 

Wolf and Greene are both recent 2nd round picks, so we'd be looking at Van Eyk and maybe Dasan Brown

 

Jansen, Groshans, Van Eyk and Brown...or something like that. I'm sure someone is better than me at this.

[Jays24]

Curious what the board experts say to this, but it certainly looks more like Jansen could have been the MLB player centrepiece. Gimenez was MLB's 60th best propsect in 2019, so maybe our comparable is Groshans (who's currently listed as the 70th).

 

Wolf and Greene are both recent 2nd round picks, so we'd be looking at Van Eyk and maybe Dasan Brown

 

Jansen, Groshans, Van Eyk and Brown...or something like that. I'm sure someone is better than me at this.

 

If that was the equivalent, that hurts so much. Adding 2 huge pieces like Lindor and Carrasco would have been hugeee.

[Brownie19]

It was all but confirmed by Masai himself that his moves were being made to ensure we had max space for Giannis in 2021. We structured Fred's extension to allow for that. Now where this totally killed us is that we let Ibaka and Gasol get away for nothing because we didn't want to commit past this year. Take a look at how bad that move is killing the Raptors right now. We're 1 and 6 because our centers SUCK.

 

Gasol is done. I do miss Ibaka. Apparently we lost him because we were trying to hold back enough cash to get Gasol too and end up losing both.

 

Financial flexibility is always valuable in the NBA - whether it's for Giannis or someone else. This isn't a situation where he put all his eggs in one basket. He isn't that stupid. Don't create the narrative.

[glory]

Cleveland trades recently always seem to be a blend of MLB player(s) + prospects. It's their attempt to stay somewhat competitive in a weak division while "improving" their farm system. If they wanted a SS in return, then the Jays didn't really matchup with them even if Shatkins was serious. The Indians can sign outfielders for dirt cheap in the FA market. A SS would have been more expensive.

 

Like I said before, I don't think the Jays were ever really serious. It made no sense to go after him given Bichette having 5 years of control left and a 10+ year extension is not something Shapiro does.