Blue Jays Free Agent Thread-Who should we sign?

[Orgfiller]

What do you guys think of Joc for the Jays? 28 yrs old, average 118 wRC+ for his career. Yes the defense is suspect.

 

edit - forget it, platoon OF

 

In theory you could platoon him with our corner OF but Teoscar doesn't really have large platoon splits (probably not stabilized but meh) and Gurriel possibly does but both of them might be good enough hitters regardless and the defense won't be worse so I don't see a great reason to add someone like him when our biggest need (in the OF) is an upgrade at CF and Joc won't provide that.

[Brownie19]

In theory you could platoon him with our corner OF but Teoscar doesn't really have large platoon splits (probably not stabilized but meh) and Gurriel possibly does but both of them might be good enough hitters regardless and the defense won't be worse so I don't see a great reason to add someone like him when our biggest need (in the OF) is an upgrade at CF and Joc won't provide that.

 

The only way it makes sense is if you trade Teo or Gurriel and then add Joc to be the strong side of a platoon with Grichuk. Seems really unlikely, although the 2018/2019 version of Joc is a really solid player.

[Brownie19]

That Jim Bowden piece was depressing. Was waiting to see the Jays name on any of the big guys but...

 

I don't recommend letting a Jim Bowden article effect the way you feel. Or any FA prediction article on the internet. It's all ********. Same with pre and post game interviews and almost everything that broadcasters say.

[Jays24]

So Steve Phillips was on Overdrive just now and he was asked who he thinks the Jays should go after. He responded with Bauer, Springer, Turner and Hand. Not one of them but all lol.

[Jimcanuck]

So Steve Phillips was on Overdrive just now and he was asked who he thinks the Jays should go after. He responded with Bauer, Springer, Turner and Hand. Not one of them but all lol.

 

Jays should be in contact with all 4, for sure.

[Jays24]

Jays should be in contact with all 4, for sure.

 

For sure. It just seems too good to be true to get even 3 of them. Wonder when the action will begin.

[Spanky99]

For sure. It just seems too good to be true to get even 3 of them. Wonder when the action will begin.

 

He suggested they'd be interested on all of them, lol.

[TheHurl]

I am still good with the Jays signing no free agents. Concentrate on trades or hold steady.

 

With that said the fanbase will burn the office down.

[Grant77]

I am still good with the Jays signing no free agents. Concentrate on trades or hold steady.

 

With that said the fanbase will burn the office down.

 

I'm ok with trades, but not ok with holding steady. There are extremely obvious areas for upgrade at 3B and SP. It doesn't have to be a star, but I'll be very unhappy if they don't take serious steps to address our weaknesses.

[max silver]

I am still good with the Jays signing no free agents. Concentrate on trades or hold steady.

 

With that said the fanbase will burn the office down.

 

I'd be supremely pissed if the front office fails to take advantage of free agency this offseason to fill holes on the team. There should be some relative bargains available this free agency, time to kick the door open to contention.

[saskjayfan]

I am still good with the Jays signing no free agents. Concentrate on trades or hold steady.

 

With that said the fanbase will burn the office down.

 

I'm all for saving Rogers money. If we can't win the world series with a Tampa bay Rays payroll, is it even worth winning?

[TheHurl]

I'd be supremely pissed if the front office fails to take advantage of free agency this offseason to fill holes on the team. There should be some relative bargains available this free agency, time to kick the door open to contention.

 

I just don't believe it's a true contender without certain steps forward from existing players. It's not a mile away, I just don't want to see them invest either prospect or capital capital until I know what a few players truly are. It's my usual tight play.

[TheHurl]

I'd be supremely pissed if the front office fails to take advantage of free agency this offseason to fill holes on the team. There should be some relative bargains available this free agency, time to kick the door open to contention.

 

When you say bargains do you mean saving a year or millions on a top 10 free agent? Or the lower end guys? Cause I am all for low risk signees. I believe there are going to be some huge upside moves outside of teams 26 man rosters.

 

Sorry if you have talked about this I haven't signed on since the WS ended

[JuneBug]

I wonder too if teams will move some highly paid all star calibre players needing to cut some $$$

 

Lindor, Arenado come to mind and fill a BJ need.

 

Arenado signed for 8/260M for 2019-26 and will turn 30 in April. So Jays would be getting a 30 year old gold glove (Brooks Robinson level) 3rd baseman who can hit a ton (Denver notwithstanding) for 6 yr and about $190M. I say YES PLEASE! (especially if the Jays only need to give up prospects like Groshans, Martin, etc in return)

[Grant77]

Arenado signed for 8/260M for 2019-26 and will turn 30 in April. So Jays would be getting a 30 year old gold glove (Brooks Robinson level) 3rd baseman who can hit a ton (Denver notwithstanding) for 6 yr and about $190M. I say YES PLEASE! (especially if the Jays only need to give up prospects like Groshans, Martin, etc in return)

 

Opt outs complicate this scenario considerably.

[JuneBug]

Opt outs complicate this scenario considerably.

 

regardless, he is total Blue Chip and worth 1 or even 2 top 'prospects' for a team that may be on the verge on contending in 2021 but also has a solid foundation for several years beyond. Let Groshans or Martin prove me wrong or will they be just like Barretto and Hech' ??

[AdamGreenwood]

Arenado signed for 8/260M for 2019-26 and will turn 30 in April. So Jays would be getting a 30 year old gold glove (Brooks Robinson level) 3rd baseman who can hit a ton (Denver notwithstanding) for 6 yr and about $190M. I say YES PLEASE! (especially if the Jays only need to give up prospects like Groshans, Martin, etc in return)

 

Jays are scared to take Colorado hitting stars after Tulo.

[JuneBug]

Jays are scared to take Colorado hitting stars after Tulo.

 

Yeah that's a fair point. But Tulo was damaged goods in 2014 -hip surgery as I recall - red flag!

[max silver]

Opt outs complicate this scenario considerably.

 

Yeah that scares the hell out of me, Arenado's contract is actually pretty reasonable for a superstar level player otherwise. It would really suck to send out top level prospect(s) for only one season worth of play. It could take a further extension on his contract to sway him away from exercising the opt out, which suddenly creates an undesirable financial burden on the club.

[Laika]

Arenado signed for 8/260M for 2019-26 and will turn 30 in April. So Jays would be getting a 30 year old gold glove (Brooks Robinson level) 3rd baseman who can hit a ton (Denver notwithstanding) for 6 yr and about $190M. I say YES PLEASE! (especially if the Jays only need to give up prospects like Groshans, Martin, etc in return)

 

But those are... fantastic prospects.

 

That would be a disaster of a trade if Arenado declines OR if he does great immediately and opts out. Extreme downside risk in two directions. Hard pass.

[Brownie19]

with Groshans and Martin on the way, I wonder if we'd be able to trade for Kyle Seager AND get a solid prospect in exchange for taking on his remaining salary (which would be 2 years, $36M I believe as his 2022 club option is automatically exercised if traded. He would shore up 3rd base for the next couple of seasons while Groshans and/or Martin develop.

 

Obviously this depends on what type of prospect we could get for eating Seager's contract, but I think we have that type of financial flexibility.

 

Or - maybe we give them Roark in exchange for Seager...

[Laika]

with Groshans and Martin on the way, I wonder if we'd be able to trade for Kyle Seager AND get a solid prospect in exchange for taking on his remaining salary (which would be 2 years, $36M I believe as his 2022 club option is automatically exercised if traded. He would shore up 3rd base for the next couple of seasons while Groshans and/or Martin develop.

 

Obviously this depends on what type of prospect we could get for eating Seager's contract, but I think we have that type of financial flexibility.

 

Or - maybe we give them Roark in exchange for Seager...

 

I don't think Seattle is throwing in a prospect with Seager. He's a solid player, a good veteran for them, popular with fans. They'd probably want a lesser prospect back, in fact. They also don't have any top IF prospect knocking on the door, so no immediate replacement unless they think Ty France is a real 3B.

[glory]

Turning Roark into Seager would be a good move, but not sure the Mariners would do it. While Seager's $15m in 2022 would become a player option with a trade, it's a team option as long as the Mariners keep him, so a Roark/Seager swap would save the M's about $6m in 2021 and that's about it. The Jays would likely have to throw something in. If the Jays took Seager's salary outright, then it shouldn't cost much, but if they are willing to go $18m on a player, then might as well try for DJ first who is better offensively and more versatile defensively.

[Grant77]

regardless, he is total Blue Chip and worth 1 or even 2 top 'prospects' for a team that may be on the verge on contending in 2021 but also has a solid foundation for several years beyond. Let Groshans or Martin prove me wrong or will they be just like Barretto and Hech' ??

 

I can't say whether those prospects will turn out, but it's an awfully big risk to take for a single season of Arenado.

[glory]

I just don't believe it's a true contender without certain steps forward from existing players. It's not a mile away, I just don't want to see them invest either prospect or capital capital until I know what a few players truly are. It's my usual tight play.

 

You're right that serious contention will depend on internal players taking the next step (Vlad, Bo, Biggio, Pearson, etc), but I think you can both wait for that development and improve the roster at the same time. The Ryu signing is an example of that. There's still 3 years left on that deal so it could easily turn sideways in the future, but it was a reasonable gamble to take on a player with front end ability. The Jays should be focusing on moves like that. I don't think any FA, even the top ones, are getting more than 5 year deals, either due to age or possibly by choice (Bauer). That fits right into the team's timeline with the current core group. I think this free agency + market is something the Jays need to take advantage of, assuming Rogers is willing to spend. Don't do the free agent equivalent of 2013 AA or anything crazy like that, but aim high, and see what happens from there. The bargains are going to be there either way due to league finances.

[Krylian]

Everyone!

 

 

Sign......

 

[Brownie19]

Turning Roark into Seager would be a good move, but not sure the Mariners would do it. While Seager's $15m in 2022 would become a player option with a trade, it's a team option as long as the Mariners keep him, so a Roark/Seager swap would save the M's about $6m in 2021 and that's about it. The Jays would likely have to throw something in. If the Jays took Seager's salary outright, then it shouldn't cost much, but if they are willing to go $18m on a player, then might as well try for DJ first who is better offensively and more versatile defensively.

 

Fair point that from Seattle's perspective Seager's only there for 2021 anyway. $6M isn't normally much to worry about - but it might be in the 2020 offseason. Just read the Twins were probably going to non-tender Eddie Roserio because he was projected to make $10-$12M in arbitration. He's been a pretty solid player for the Twins, who are in the middle of a contending window.

 

Roark for Seager - done!

[TheHurl]

You're right that serious contention will depend on internal players taking the next step (Vlad, Bo, Biggio, Pearson, etc), but I think you can both wait for that development and improve the roster at the same time. The Ryu signing is an example of that. There's still 3 years left on that deal so it could easily turn sideways in the future, but it was a reasonable gamble to take on a player with front end ability. The Jays should be focusing on moves like that. I don't think any FA, even the top ones, are getting more than 5 year deals, either due to age or possibly by choice (Bauer). That fits right into the team's timeline with the current core group. I think this free agency + market is something the Jays need to take advantage of, assuming Rogers is willing to spend. Don't do the free agent equivalent of 2013 AA or anything crazy like that, but aim high, and see what happens from there. The bargains are going to be there either way due to league finances.

 

I am 100% for Bauer as I think there are things beyond most money and most years that could land him. The rest of the top 10 or so I don't see bargains or the guys that set up the Jays as legit contenders. You never see this many teams close to the 40 man limit prior to the rule 5 protection moves (Houston, Tampa, KC are all teams I know are at 39 right now). If teams want to be active in free agency they will end up dropping legit assets and the teams that have a bunch of trash (Boston, Washington, Philly) or space (f***ing Oakland of course) are going to improve without much risk. Other than Bauer or maybe a combo of 2 other top 10 FA's...i would rather see the team improving from other teams mistakes or financial hardships.

 

My top 3 off season priorities would be

 

1. A big trade giving the Jays a star CF, 3B or SS who has 2 to 3 years of control

2. Bauer (give him full control of his own training, allow him to pitch every 4th day, and a player option every year at a reduced rate)

3. Young pitchers on the trash pile.

 

f*** Springer, f*** Lemahieu, f*** Semien, stroman, Didi, Ozuna, Brantley and Turner. Talk to the next tier and low ball them.

[JuneBug]

But those are... fantastic prospects.

 

That would be a disaster of a trade if Arenado declines OR if he does great immediately and opts out. Extreme downside risk in two directions. Hard pass.

 

Groshans has not played for a season and a half. Not to mention Barreto was great too....... If he is still owed $190M for 6 then it would be 5 yr and about $160 M after 2021. In the current business environment, I don't see Arenado getting more than $160 M guaranteed as a 31 year old - he is very good but this is NOT a 5 tool Trout/Betts level -player. Higher likelihood the deal turns into a financial boondoggle in the later years (Tulo like) than it is that they lose him after 1 year.

 

Groshans or Martin plus a good pitching prospect for Arenado would be a big short term win and likely overall win

[Farm]

Groshans has not played for a season and a half. Not to mention Barreto was great too....... If he is still owed $190M for 6 then it would be 5 yr and about $160 M after 2021. In the current business environment, I don't see Arenado getting more than $160 M guaranteed as a 31 year old - he is very good but this is NOT a 5 tool Trout/Betts level -player. Higher likelihood the deal turns into a financial boondoggle in the later years (Tulo like) than it is that they lose him after 1 year.

 

Groshans or Martin plus a good pitching prospect for Arenado would be a big short term win and likely overall win

 

I don't like with trading for players that were previously signed out of free agency/extended at free agency values, especially during the off-season when there are good free agents still on the table. Especially this year with depressed free agency values. Donaldson was a different story because at that time he was just going into arbitration.

 

Why not push that 160million or 190million on top tier free agents like Trevor Bauer/George Springer, and then roll the dice on upside with Ha-Seong Kim/Tomoyuki Sugano, while keeping Groshans and Martin?

 

Having players with cost certainty like Groshans/Martin will allow us to push to that next step. We need a mixture of good players on cheap contracts with good players on expensive contracts, if we trade away all the cheap ones then we'll be left with a good but expensive team only, that can't break through to the very top, unless you can envision Rogers going super hard on payroll (sorry I wouldn't want to bet on that, I'd expect they'll take the lagging indicator and expanding payroll too late as opposed to too early).

 

It would be like trading for Reyes/Buehrle all over again one year out of free agency, which just feels bad. I won't accept the argument that no free agents want to come to Toronto, which I think is less and less true (given politics, the ascension of Toronto as a city - see the Raptors, and that players will always go where the money is). I'd rather overpay in free agency a little bit than to give up top tier prospects like Groshans and Martin.