Vlad Jr. to Indy Ball

[DonJays]

Where the f*** do you get whiny and arrogant from?

Immature, sure. Dumb, maybe.

 

How is Vladdy not arrogant? He is the most arrogant player in the AL. This is my house! He shockingly immature but his lack of maturity doesn’t come close to his staggering arrogance

[John_Havok]

If Vlad wasn’t a Jay, the same nerds bashing him would still be slobbing his knob based on statcast page

 

You're not wrong. He'd be the prime "buy low" candidate for any team that could afford his next two arb years.

 

That's why I don't buy the narrative some media members are spinning about it being 50/50 that he's back next season, like the Jays would somehow trade him in the middle of their window.

 

Doesn't make sense.

[John_Havok]

How is Vladdy not arrogant? He is the most arrogant player in the AL. This is my house! He shockingly immature but his lack of maturity doesn’t come close to his staggering arrogance

 

I guess a lot of people mistake being a flashy showman without the results for arrogance.

 

Donaldson is arrogant. Vlads personality is light years from his.

[Stangstag]

You're not wrong. He'd be the prime "buy low" candidate for any team that could afford his next two arb years.

 

That's why I don't buy the narrative some media members are spinning about it being 50/50 that he's back next season, like the Jays would somehow trade him in the middle of their window.

 

Doesn't make sense.

 

It makes sense because he can’t be relied on. If you can get a decent return I think you do it. Not like 1B is a difficult position to replace either, guys like Belt are available almost every year.

[John_Havok]

It makes sense because he can’t be relied on. If you can get a decent return I think you do it. Not like 1B is a difficult position to replace either, guys like Belt are available almost every year.

 

Name a team that would give anything of value for Vlad though? He's probably looking at a 20 million dollar arb contract. That puts 80% of the teams in baseball out of the running instantly. The Yankees obviously aren't a possibility. He won't be non-tendered.

 

I'm not saying he couldn't/shouldn't be traded, just that it's extremely unlikely

[Stangstag]

Name a team that would give anything of value for Vlad though? He's probably looking at a 20 million dollar arb contract. That puts 80% of the teams in baseball out of the running instantly. The Yankees obviously aren't a possibility. He won't be non-tendered.

 

I'm not saying he couldn't/shouldn't be traded, just that it's extremely unlikely

 

You were saying he’d be a prime “buy low” candidate based on his underlying metrics. Im saying if you can get something decent, you trade him.

 

We’re kind of on the same page, I think the best scenario is he has a good 2024 and we offload him then. Seems like he’s a coinflip on whether he’ll be good or not. Gotta hope he rebounds next season and you can get a better return next offseason.

 

Because even if he’s good 2024, I wouldn’t count on him being good in 2025

[John_Havok]

You were saying he’d be a prime “buy low” candidate based on his underlying metrics. Im saying if you can get something decent, you trade him.

 

We’re kind of on the same page, I think the best scenario is he has a good 2024 and we offload him then. Seems like he’s a coinflip on whether he’ll be good or not. Gotta hope he rebounds next season and you can get a better return next offseason.

 

Because even if he’s good 2024, I wouldn’t count on him being good in 2025

 

Sorry, what I was meaning about "buy low candidate" was more along the lines of a team like the Jays, for an example, who are in the middle of a contention window, dont need to pinch pennies, and getting near replacement level from 1b would be absolutely checking in with whichever hypothetical team had Vlad on their roster to see if he was available. They'd probably want to wait until he signed his arb deal first and then go from there.

 

But there's very few teams like that out there right now. Can't really think of one honestly. Maybe some lower budget teams would check in and want the salary paid down and would increase the return capital but for any team but that's still pretty unlikely as those teams usually need to keep their prospects to keep their payrolls in check

[BigCecil]

You're not wrong. He'd be the prime "buy low" candidate for any team that could afford his next two arb years.

 

That's why I don't buy the narrative some media members are spinning about it being 50/50 that he's back next season, like the Jays would somehow trade him in the middle of their window.

 

Doesn't make sense.

I very much doubt it’s 50/50 too, but it’s all about the value coming back. There has to be some cocky GM (sucker or genius) who thinks their org can turn Vlads 2023 red baseball savant page back into 2021. I suspect depending on where we are in the ‘24 deadline in the playoff hunt will determine a lot in terms of what the FO does. They likely won’t want another JD situation if they can’t/don’t extend.

[BlueBaller]

He's still gonna unlock all that big big potential.

[John_Havok]

I very much doubt it’s 50/50 too, but it’s all about the value coming back. There has to be some cocky GM (sucker or genius) who thinks their org can turn Vlads 2023 red baseball savant page back into 2021. I suspect depending on where we are in the ‘24 deadline in the playoff hunt will determine a lot in terms of what the FO does. They likely won’t want another JD situation if they can’t/don’t extend.

 

I'm just trying to think of the teams that might think that way. San Diego?

[jaysblue]

Where the f*** do you get whiny and arrogant from?

 

Immature, sure. Dumb, maybe.

 

Lmao geez don't get all worked up.

 

I think he just comes across as a spoiled and uncaring brat. He also acts cocky and over confident most of the time, thinking he's a star player when he hasn't been playing like one. He's very immature overall.

 

For some reason, no other player or coach pulls him aside or calls him out for his lack of hustle or stupid base running decisions. Maybe it happens behind closed doors but it seems like if one of the players or coaches criticize him, he's the type of player who will throw a fit or tantrum.

[jaysblue]

A Vladdy/Alonso swap could make sense for both clubs.

 

I can't really think of any other trade matches off the top of my head. Maybe a trade with the Padres for Fernando Tatis Jr.? A young starting pitcher like Luzardo or Alcantara? Not really sure.

 

Probably gotta just hope he has a big 2024 or 2025.

[John_Havok]

A Vladdy/Alonso swap could make sense for both clubs.

 

I can't really think of any other trade matches off the top of my head. Maybe a trade with the Padres for Fernando Tatis Jr.? A young starting pitcher like Luzardo or Alcantara? Not really sure.

 

Probably gotta just hope he has a big 2024 or 2025.

 

I thought of the Vlad / Alonso thing and really couldn't rationalize it in my head all the way through. 1 less year of control for Alonso since he's a free agent after 24 rather than 25. I doubt the Mets want to really trade him anyways but weirder s*** has happened I guess.

 

San Diego would be interested I think but I highly doubt they'd want to remove someone like ftj to get him. Croenenworth would also almost have to be in the deal and I want no part of that guy

[G-Snarls]

He's still gonna unlock all that big big potential.

 

I think he'll have some of his best seasons in his late 20s like lots of power hitters do

[gruber92]

Sorry, what I was meaning about "buy low candidate" was more along the lines of a team like the Jays, for an example, who are in the middle of a contention window, dont need to pinch pennies, and getting near replacement level from 1b would be absolutely checking in with whichever hypothetical team had Vlad on their roster to see if he was available. They'd probably want to wait until he signed his arb deal first and then go from there.

 

But there's very few teams like that out there right now. Can't really think of one honestly. Maybe some lower budget teams would check in and want the salary paid down and would increase the return capital but for any team but that's still pretty unlikely as those teams usually need to keep their prospects to keep their payrolls in check

 

Maybe the Brewers

[mellowgold]

I've been just as frustrated with Vlad as anyone but I think it would be a big mistake to trade him when his value is this low. I know he's been pretty underwhelming other than 2021 but he's still just 24 and you don't have a monster 22-year-old season like he did by accident.

 

His potential is still off the charts and the reward far outweighs the "risk" of keeping an above average bat on his worst day in your lineup, especially when we have the money to still build a solid team around him.

[Captain_Obvious]

I've been just as frustrated with Vlad as anyone but I think it would be a big mistake to trade him when his value is this low. I know he's been pretty underwhelming other than 2021 but he's still just 24 and you don't have a monster 22-year-old season like he did by accident.

 

His potential is still off the charts and the reward far outweighs the "risk" of keeping an above average bat on his worst day in your lineup, especially when we have the money to still build a solid team around him.

 

The problem is not that Vlad is still on the team. The problem is that they are treating him like he is an MVP. Drop him to 7th in the order and have him only DH 3-4 times a week until he gets his head out of his ass.

[mellowgold]

For sure. I was more referring to all the chatter about shipping his fat ass out of town.

[jaysblue]

Maybe the Brewers

 

Corbin Burnes or Brandon Woodruff could be potential targets but they will be FAs after 2024. Would prefer Freddy Peralta given his salary and the club options for 2024-2026, but doubt the Brewers move him. Christian Yelich could be interesting as well but he's going to be 32 and owed a lot of money still through 2028. Nothing really exciting. Would rather keep Vlad and bank on him having a monster season before he becomes a FA.

[jaysblue]

I thought of the Vlad / Alonso thing and really couldn't rationalize it in my head all the way through. 1 less year of control for Alonso since he's a free agent after 24 rather than 25. I doubt the Mets want to really trade him anyways but weirder s*** has happened I guess.

 

San Diego would be interested I think but I highly doubt they'd want to remove someone like ftj to get him. Croenenworth would also almost have to be in the deal and I want no part of that guy

 

Only way I could rationalize Alonso is that he should be a lock for 40 HR's and 3-4 WAR. Vladdy still has two years of control left and is younger, which would attract the Mets. Downside for the Jays is that he's going to be an expensive player in his last two arbitration years, even if he doesn't produce solid numbers. If Vlad doesn't show any improvements over his 2023 season, you risk paying him close to $18-20M per season for a below 1 WAR player.

 

Padres could be interesting since I'm sure they want to shake things up this offseason given their disappointing 2023. FTJ or even Juan Soto would be nice targets. Soto has one more year left of control. Would actually prefer Soto over Alonso if I had a choice.

[jaysblue]

I've been just as frustrated with Vlad as anyone but I think it would be a big mistake to trade him when his value is this low. I know he's been pretty underwhelming other than 2021 but he's still just 24 and you don't have a monster 22-year-old season like he did by accident.

 

His potential is still off the charts and the reward far outweighs the "risk" of keeping an above average bat on his worst day in your lineup, especially when we have the money to still build a solid team around him.

 

Yeah agreed that you shouldn't sell low on him. It's better to hope he has another monster season in 2024 or 2025 (or both) rather than trade him for the sake of trading him. It would have to be for another high upside exciting young player like a Juan Soto or FTJ. Not sure if even something like that exists.

[L54]

What am I reading - Woodruff, Burnes, Soto, Tatis for Vlad? Those are 4 WAR hitters and 3 WAR pitchers you ain’t getting them for Vlad

[L54]

You keep Vlad because he could easily put up 5 WAR for 20M. You are the only team that has the luxury of taking that gamble. Of course it could backfire like it has this year but you don’t really have a choice unless someone wants to pay like 80% of his value for two years of control which I doubt they do

[jaysblue]

What am I reading - Woodruff, Burnes, Soto, Tatis for Vlad? Those are 4 WAR hitters and 3 WAR pitchers you ain’t getting them for Vlad

 

I'm throwing some ideas out there to start some conversation. Haven't seen anyone else really do that thus far when talking about wanting to trade Vladdy. Also, doesn't mean it's a straight one-for-one swap. Any deal likely requires multiple pieces.

 

Woodruff and Burnes only have one-year left of control. It's highly unlikely the Brewers re-sign them to extensions. Brewers could definitely be interested in trading one of them for two years of Vlad if they think he could bounce back. They could use another big bat.

 

As for the Padres, they could be looking to shake things up this offseason. So I'm sure they would be more open to moving certain players. Soto is a free agent after 2024 and likely doesn't sign an extension. Doubt they move Tatis, but given his huge contract, moving off shortstop and his down season, they might listen.

[Nursehoneybadger]

I would take a couple years of Kyle Tucker for Vlad. He has been doing well.

[L54]

I would take a couple years of Kyle Tucker for Vlad. He has been doing well.

 

We all would lol

[jaysblue]

You keep Vlad because he could easily put up 5 WAR for 20M. You are the only team that has the luxury of taking that gamble. Of course it could backfire like it has this year but you don’t really have a choice unless someone wants to pay like 80% of his value for two years of control which I doubt they do

 

I've stated numerous times that if the Blue Jays can't trade him for a similar high upside young player or arm, it's best to keep him and hope he has a monster season in 2024 and 2025 before he becomes a FA.

 

From discussions on this board, it seems like the Jays will be close to their payroll threshold for 2024 again, especially given the players they need to replace and players eligible for arbitration. The Jays can't really afford to pay Vlad 20M if he posts a 0.5 WAR season again. Unless they go out and could add another piece or pieces that cost $20-30M on top of their projected payroll, then yes they have the luxury of taking that gamble.

[jaysblue]

I would take a couple years of Kyle Tucker for Vlad. He has been doing well.

 

Add Alex Bregman in the deal. Jays need a 3B next season!

[jaysblue]

We all would lol

 

Again, I don't know how those names I suggested were outrageous according to you. You're pretty much trading 2 years of Vlad for either a bat or arm with one-year of control left and who unlikely will sign extensions with their current clubs. We've seen trade value for players/pitchers diminish when a player or pitcher only has one-year left of control. Heck, look at the Jays when they had Josh Donaldson as an example.

 

As for the Padres, they're likely looking to shake things up this offseason.

[Nursehoneybadger]

Plus Bregman in the Jays dugout would make Springer play better. His old Barrio.