Fire Charlie Montoyo - The thread worked guys!

[Spanky99]

More of a John Rocker..

 

[Spanky99]

Yea bad call but not crazy. Bo needs to not auto swing at anything at the bottom of the zone when he’s trying to hit something in the air.

 

Romano needs to shut the 2 run lead down, especially with 2 out, nobody on. That's inexcusable... and was the end of that game. Time to move on. Feels like a must win today.

[Dagagad]

Romano needs to shut the 2 run lead down, especially with 2 out, nobody on. That's inexcusable... and was the end of that game. Time to move on. Feels like a must win today.

 

True. Or just groove some pitches to Anderson and try to get lucky instead of walking him. That might have worked. Walking him and grooving everyone else wasn’t ideal.

[Spanky99]

I'm not sure if this factors in at all, but statistically Biggio has been a much better hitter than Bo with RISP so far this season. Biggio is 9-26 (.346 AVG) while Bo is the worst on the team at 10-60 (.167 AVG).

 

No, it doesn't.

[BuckHenry]

Last week someone on the game forum mentioned that Charlie does not have a great , “Feel for the game.”I agree with this ,two short examples are pulling Yimi Garcia on Sunday against NY after he shut down the Yanks in the 8th ; then Yesterday against the Sox when Thornton shut down them down in 8, looked really good , but Charlie brings out Mayza in 9 . Don’t you have to go with the ‘hot hand at times rather than always going by matchups/ analytics ?When I coached ( not in pros), we would tell the pitcher, “You’re out there again , but one walk or hit and you’re pulled,”Pitcher knew exactly where he stood .I’m pretty old school , not so much into WAR or analytics , still rely on BA and visuals . There are a lot of people on this form who are way more knowledgeable about baseball analytics than I am and I applaud this , but I think most would agree with what I’m saying . Also wonder if Schneider and Walker don’t give him different advice sometimes ; they never seem to put in their two cents worth, (but I may be wrong here.)

[John_Havok]

Last week someone on the game forum mentioned that Charlie does not have a great , “Feel for the game.”I agree with this ,two short examples are pulling Yimi Garcia on Sunday against NY after he shut down the Yanks in the 8th ; then Yesterday against the Sox when Thornton shut down them down in 8, looked really good , but Charlie brings out Mayza in 9 . Don’t you have to go with the ‘hot hand at times rather than always going by matchups/ analytics ?When I coached ( not in pros), we would tell the pitcher, “You’re out there again , but one walk or hit and you’re pulled,”Pitcher knew exactly where he stood .I’m pretty old school , not so much into WAR or analytics , still rely on BA and visuals . There are a lot of people on this form who are way more knowledgeable about baseball analytics than I am and I applaud this , but I think most would agree with what I’m saying . Also wonder if Schneider and Walker don’t give him different advice sometimes ; they never seem to put in their two cents worth, (but I may be wrong here.)

 

Pen management is such a crapshoot when you have the arms the Jays have... they have 1 high end guy (im not gonna call him elite yet, but hes on the high end of the level below elite imo) maybe 3 debateably above average guys (Cimber, Mayza and Garcia) 50 feet of crap, and then the rest of them.

 

I think what you're getting at mostly is that rather than automatically pulling a guy when he's dealing out the pen, run him out again until he gets into trouble. Well, lots can go wrong with that too. At the end of the day, Charlie can only put a guy on the mound, it's up to the pitcher to get the job done. Some days it's hard to get the exact guy you want out there because of 100 different reasons and you have to go the someone that maybe isn't the perfect choice. Also, if a guy is cruising, maybe you still want to take him out at the end of the inning so he's available the next day if needed. Can't always just let guys go until they let a guy on base.

 

all of this is not to excuse Montoyo at all either, just saying that with the lack of swing and miss in the pen in general, some days are just gonna suck.

[Solaxys]

Montoyo, apparently as been said here on the forum, likes running the pen like the Rays run the pen.

 

Cash decided to use 5 arms to get through 2.1 innings. Then had to rely on a below average reliever in Garza Jr (due to their injured roster) to wrap up the game who ended up giving up the 2-run bomb to Trevino and lose the game.

Might have worked if Rays had their full BP but as they have 3-4 guys of Jays caliber pen (mostly due to injuries), we can see the same results there as with what Charlie does .

 

Stats/analysis is cool but there seems to be a bit too much trust in the reliever coming out of the pen every single time pitching their A-game or at least to their data-driven metrics. Sure, over the season, it'll all average out but game-to-game, its a cointoss.

[Omar]

Can we send this beta and his congas packing now?

[Dagagad]

Can we send this beta and his congas packing now?

 

 

Ross is into congas as well?

[Omar]

Ross is into congas as well?

 

If looks could kill...

 

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[JFD]

We have much bigger problems than bongo bozo

[5ToolPhenom]

Honestly, I would've fired him last year after that debacle against Cleveland when he had the gas-can Chatwood throw away the game in the last inning by walking like 4 straight batters. That game was the difference between making the playoffs or not.

 

Writers around the team figured that Charlie was "proving a point" to Chatwood because he had recently threw a fit about being pulled.

 

Charlies a spineless jellyfish

[Omar]

Honestly, I would've fired him last year after that debacle against Cleveland when he had the gas-can Chatwood throw away the game in the last inning by walking like 4 straight batters. That game was the difference between making the playoffs or not.

 

Writers around the team figured that Charlie was "proving a point" to Chatwood because he had recently threw a fit about being pulled.

 

Charlies a spineless jellyfish

 

The man has got to go. It may light a fire under this team. Not his fault that he was dealt a s***** hand with the pen but we can't trade the team. He gets the axe.

[Dagagad]

You know players aren’t dumb right? They know the pen sucks. They know who put together the pitching. They’ll know Charlie is just getting canned as a scapegoat.

[gruber92]

If looks could kill...

 

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Looks like a promo shot for the next Goonies reunion.

[Omar]

You know players aren’t dumb right? They know the pen sucks. They know who put together the pitching. They’ll know Charlie is just getting canned as a scapegoat.

 

Yes, like every other manager firing in the history of baseball.

[Dagagad]

Yes, like every other manager firing in the history of baseball.

 

Yea, and it doesn’t actually work that often.

[Omar]

Yea, and it doesn’t actually work that often.

 

So you are happy with Montoyo as skipper?

[Dagagad]

So you are happy with Montoyo as skipper?

 

Honestly, yea. Managers don’t make much difference and he doesn’t do anything I really hate. I doubt he has much say on most things.

[Omar]

Honestly, yea. Managers don’t make much difference and he doesn’t do anything I really hate. I doubt he has much say on most things.

 

He fills out the lineup card. That is enough.

[Dagagad]

He fills out the lineup card. That is enough.

 

Do you think he has full say on that? I kind of doubt it.

 

If we are giving him credit, he wrangled a 91 win season out of some wretched pitching last year.

[Omar]

Do you think he has full say on that? I kind of doubt it.

 

If we are giving him credit, he wrangled a 91 win season out of some wretched pitching last year.

 

Last week you wanted to fire Pete Walker (probably our best coach) and now you want to keep Charlie.

[5ToolPhenom]

Yea, and it doesn’t actually work that often.

 

it works more than you'd think. It's a known gambling tactic that teams will often go on a run once they get a new manager in. Phillies, Canucks and Oilers come to mind in the past year.

[5ToolPhenom]

Do you think he has full say on that? I kind of doubt it.

 

If we are giving him credit, he wrangled a 91 win season out of some wretched pitching last year.

 

If I was to believe what I read on this forum, I'd think that a manager has no autonomy whatsoever.

 

If a manager isn't even in control of the lineups, then WTF do they do? haha

[Stangstag]

it works more than you'd think. It's a known gambling tactic that teams will often go on a run once they get a new manager in. Phillies, Canucks and Oilers come to mind in the past year.

 

2 of the 3 examples you mentioned are hockey teams. Its not the same thing.

[Stangstag]

If I was to believe what I read on this forum, I'd think that a manager has no autonomy whatsoever.

 

If a manager isn't even in control of the lineups, then WTF do they do? haha

 

Make sure the players all get the field on time

[5ToolPhenom]

2 of the 3 examples you mentioned are hockey teams. Its not the same thing.

 

Well even the Angels had a temporary boost once they kicked Maddon to the curb. Admittedly it didn't last long though haha

[Dagagad]

If I was to believe what I read on this forum, I'd think that a manager has no autonomy whatsoever.

 

If a manager isn't even in control of the lineups, then WTF do they do? haha

 

Morale, vibes that kind of thing. They have a say but I don’t think they set the lineup completely on their own any more.

[Omar]

2 of the 3 examples you mentioned are hockey teams. Its not the same thing.

 

Do you remember Jimy Williams?

[Omar]

Morale, vibes that kind of thing. They have a say but I don’t think they set the lineup completely on their own any more.

 

You think Larussa, AJ Hinch, Boone, Dave Roberts are employed for vibes?