Fire Charlie Montoyo - The thread worked guys!

[5ToolPhenom]

The most telling part of that Montoyo press conference was when he said "You have to trust someone ONE TIME to let them get out of trouble". Considering the tantrum that Chatwood had a week ago, he's basically admitting that he left him out there to lose the game to prove a point.

 

That's a fireable offense IMO. It's not like the Jays are up 10 games in the division and he's proving a point to Ryu. To throw a critical game away in a tight division to put a reliever in his place is beyond idiotic.

 

The Jays need to get rid of this guy.

[Krylian]

The most telling part of that Montoyo press conference was when he said "You have to trust someone ONE TIME to let them get out of trouble". Considering the tantrum that Chatwood had a week ago, he's basically admitting that he left him out there to lose the game to prove a point.

 

That's a fireable offense IMO. It's not like the Jays are up 10 games in the division and he's proving a point to Ryu. To throw a critical game away in a tight division to put a reliever in his place is beyond idiotic.

 

The Jays need to get rid of this guy.

 

This thread needs to get to 400 pages first for that to happen. Better get on it.

[wilko]

This thread needs to get to 400 pages first for that to happen. Better get on it.

 

Once it does, i'll print off each page and mail the thread to Shatkins. I trust they will do the right thing.

[Krylian]

Once it does, i'll print off each page and mail the thread to Shatkins. I trust they will do the right thing.

 

Make sure he's clear that the death of those trees are on his hands.

[Spanky99]

This thread needs to get to 400 pages first for that to happen. Better get on it.

 

Once it does, i'll print off each page and mail the thread to Shatkins. I trust they will do the right thing.

 

Make sure he's clear that the death of those trees are on his hands.

 

lol... I'm only on page 21, that'll be a good chunk of a forest.

[Dick_Pole]

Fire Montoyo for not convincing the Marlins to take Garcia out of the game.

[Spanky99]

Fire Montoyo for not convincing the Marlins to take Garcia out of the game.

 

YER DUMN! Dick!

[TheHurl]

Fire Montoyo for not convincing the Marlins to take Garcia out of the game.

 

Give Charlie another extension for not pinch hitting Reece in the 9th, and perfect use of his pinch runners.

[Spanky99]

Give Charlie another extension for not pinch hitting Reece in the 9th, and perfect use of his pinch runners.

 

Why would he pinch hit a LHB with Garcia pitching, also he should've just PR McGuire when he was on first? Yer dumn 2.

[TheHurl]

Why would he pinch hit a LHB with Garcia pitching, also he should've just PR McGuire when he was on first? Yer dumn 2.

 

He shouldn't pinch hit Reece but I saw a bunch of fans saying he should. And if he got an out they would have been on the fire Charlie tweets. If these f***ing idiots are going to claim that managerial decisions cost a team 5 wins I'm going to counter that by giving Charlie a win back when they win despite him doing differently than the fanbase would have. Charlie's job is closer to backroom masseuse...keep these boys happy and ready to do their thing and if he wants to flip a coin to make decisions the record will be the same

[saskjayfan]

He shouldn't pinch hit Reece but I saw a bunch of fans saying he should. And if he got an out they would have been on the fire Charlie tweets. If these f***ing idiots are going to claim that managerial decisions cost a team 5 wins I'm going to counter that by giving Charlie a win back when they win despite him doing differently than the fanbase would have. Charlie's job is closer to backroom masseuse...keep these boys happy and ready to do their thing and if he wants to flip a coin to make decisions the record will be the same

 

So you're saying you say a handful of people say Reece should have been pinch hit for when the options were Davis, Jansen and Espinal all right handed crappy hitters. You feel those handful of people represent the majority of the fanbase. That seems more anecdotal than scientific. I certainly wasn't calling for him to be pulled. If you want to give Charlie credit, give him credit for starting Reece 2 games in a row.

[Spanky99]

He shouldn't pinch hit Reece but I saw a bunch of fans saying he should. And if he got an out they would have been on the fire Charlie tweets. If these f***ing idiots are going to claim that managerial decisions cost a team 5 wins I'm going to counter that by giving Charlie a win back when they win despite him doing differently than the fanbase would have. Charlie's job is closer to backroom masseuse...keep these boys happy and ready to do their thing and if he wants to flip a coin to make decisions the record will be the same

 

I know what a manager's job is to do, Hurl. Keep the clubhouse happy ink a lineup, and put your best pitchers in depending on availability and leverage. You saw a bunch of fans on here say they should pinch hit Reese? Oh, you said tweets, who cares what people say on twitter, that's a shitshow?

 

Oh, and stick up for your guys, he's a punani... Pete Walker has been thrown out likely more than this f***ing guy.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Spanky99

[Olerud363]

He shouldn't pinch hit Reece but I saw a bunch of fans saying he should. And if he got an out they would have been on the fire Charlie tweets. If these f***ing idiots are going to claim that managerial decisions cost a team 5 wins I'm going to counter that by giving Charlie a win back when they win despite him doing differently than the fanbase would have. Charlie's job is closer to backroom masseuse...keep these boys happy and ready to do their thing and if he wants to flip a coin to make decisions the record will be the same

 

 

He did a fantastic job at managing the bullpen last night. He went all out knowing the Jays were fighters and could crawl back, he played Chess with the scrub relievers choosing the right one inning after inning. They managed to hold the Marlins to 1 run over 5 1/3. Great stuff.

 

In particular he chose to use Carl Edwards at a critical moment. And it worked out. Great move.

 

He also has refused to move Bo Bichette off short stop or from second in the order. A Cito Gaston like confidence builder which led directly to the key triple in the 9th. Great stuff.

[Stangstag]

He did a fantastic job at managing the bullpen last night. He went all out knowing the Jays were fighters and could crawl back, he played Chess with the scrub relievers choosing the right one inning after inning. They managed to hold the Marlins to 1 run over 5 1/3. Great stuff.

 

In particular he chose to use Carl Edwards at a critical moment. And it worked out. Great move.

 

Ah yes, we definitely used all our best relievers last night. Definitely “all out”.

 

Stop making s*** up.

 

Charlie did a good job managing last night but we were lucky the Marlins didn’t score any runs when Payamps came in with runners on. Bullpen did well to hold the score. But lets not make things up and say Charlie went “all out” to hold the score. He kept his high leverage guys out, which is fine.

 

Maybe he should have used one of those guys we used last night to relieve Chatwood in Cleveland when he couldn’t hit a barn door from 20 feet...

[Stangstag]

He also has refused to move Bo Bichette off short stop or from second in the order. A Cito Gaston like confidence builder which led directly to the key triple in the 9th. Great stuff.

 

Lol

[Olerud363]

The most telling part of that Montoyo press conference was when he said "You have to trust someone ONE TIME to let them get out of trouble". Considering the tantrum that Chatwood had a week ago, he's basically admitting that he left him out there to lose the game to prove a point.

 

That's a fireable offense IMO. It's not like the Jays are up 10 games in the division and he's proving a point to Ryu. To throw a critical game away in a tight division to put a reliever in his place is beyond idiotic.

 

The Jays need to get rid of this guy.

 

I don't think he was trying to prove a point. They probably discussed this scenario before hand and decided they wanted to avoid having a guy warm up behind Chatwood because it didn't work last time.

 

It's weird that they did things both ways

 

1. In the Tampa game they had a guy warming up behind Chatwood and did bring him in, Bergen blew it and they lost

2. In the Cleveland game they did it the other way, tried to avoid having a guy warm up, because maybe it got in Chatwood's head... this didn't work either.

 

All of this complaining is contingent on Romano being a great reliever and available whenever we want. How do we know Romano can pitch both ends of double header ? Or 4 times in 5 days? He also has a bit of an injury history.

 

And how do we even know Romano is that good? He looks great in 30 career innings, but so did Steve Delebar.

[TheHurl]

So you're saying you say a handful of people say Reece should have been pinch hit for when the options were Davis, Jansen and Espinal all right handed crappy hitters. You feel those handful of people represent the majority of the fanbase. That seems more anecdotal than scientific. I certainly wasn't calling for him to be pulled. If you want to give Charlie credit, give him credit for starting Reece 2 games in a row.

 

Don't make me triple or quadruple down

[TheHurl]

Ah yes, we definitely used all our best relievers last night. Definitely “all out”.

 

Stop making s*** up.

 

Charlie did a good job managing last night but we were lucky the Marlins didn’t score any runs when Payamps came in with runners on. Bullpen did well to hold the score. But lets not make things up and say Charlie went “all out” to hold the score. He kept his high leverage guys out, which is fine.

 

Maybe he should have used one of those guys we used last night to relieve Chatwood in Cleveland when he couldn’t hit a barn door from 20 feet...

 

So you are saying it is the managers fault when the bullpen fails but not his credit (or "lucky") when they are successful

[Olerud363]

Ah yes, we definitely used all our best relievers last night. Definitely “all out”.

 

Stop making s*** up.

 

Charlie did a good job managing last night but we were lucky the Marlins didn’t score any runs when Payamps came in with runners on. Bullpen did well to hold the score. But lets not make things up and say Charlie went “all out” to hold the score. He kept his high leverage guys out, which is fine.

 

Maybe he should have used one of those guys we used last night to relieve Chatwood in Cleveland when he couldnÂ’t hit a barn door from 20 feet...

 

I'm being sarcastic. I don't really think he was playing Chess. He used some of his relievers and they performed.

 

He did exactly as you wanted (removed Chatwood) in one of the Tampa games, and the next guy imploded too. So no guarantee removing Chatwood a couple of batter earlier would of worked.

 

This is the point. Charlie's mistake don't lose games. They lose 10% of a game. Over a season? Maybe they lose a game or 2.

 

Even really good teams often don't do good in 1 run games. Tampa Bay this year has a losing record in 1 run games, same with Yankees in 2019.

 

2015 Jays 15-28 in one run games. But unbelievably still won 93.

 

One run games are luck. No magic manager is going to win the pennant (consistently) by going 30-15 in 1 run games every year. Charlie just splits the close games like everyone else.

[Stangstag]

I'm being sarcastic. I don't really think he was playing Chess. He used some of his relievers and they performed.

 

He did exactly as you wanted (removed Chatwood) in one of the Tampa games, and the next guy imploded too. So no guarantee removing Chatwood a couple of batter earlier would of worked.

 

This is the point. Charlie's mistake don't lose games. They lose 10% of a game. Over a season? Maybe they lose a game or 2.

 

Even really good teams often don't do good in 1 run games. Tampa Bay this year has a losing record in 1 run games, same with Yankees in 2019.

 

2015 Jays 15-28 in one run games. But unbelievably still won 93.

 

One run games are luck. No magic manager is going to win the pennant (consistently) by going 30-15 in 1 run games every year. Charlie just splits the close games like everyone else.

 

Fair. There's really no way to truly measure the impact of a manager.

 

I just can't agree with that Cleveland game though. You can't just sit on your hands in the final inning and do nothing while your pitcher absolutely implodes on the mound. Especially when said pitcher literally did the same thing a week prior. And looked shaky in the previous inning. And looked shaky his previous appearance against the Yankees. That was extremely bad managing.

[Grant77]

I doesn't matter now, but I haven't seen an explanation for the pinch running situation last night. For the moment, let's rule out the scenario where he just forgot that Davis existed.

 

Semien hits an RBI double and then you pinch run? Do you pinch run for Bo in any scenario? If Vladdy gets on, he's probably irrelevant or stuck behind a guy on 2B. I just don't get the decision.

[Stangstag]

I doesn't matter now, but I haven't seen an explanation for the pinch running situation last night. For the moment, let's rule out the scenario where he just forgot that Davis existed.

 

Semien hits an RBI double and then you pinch run? Do you pinch run for Bo in any scenario? If Vladdy gets on, he's probably irrelevant or stuck behind a guy on 2B. I just don't get the decision.

 

I've seen him do the same thing before in the past... seems like he only pinch runs if the tying/winning run is on base. I think he left Reese because even if Semien hits a double, Reese can stop at 3rd because Semien needs to score in order to tie that game.

 

Not saying the logic is great but that seems to be the pattern.

[saskjayfan]

Don't make me triple or quadruple down

 

Charlie, Charlie. He's our man, if he can't do it, no one can!

[Grant77]

I've seen him do the same thing before in the past... seems like he only pinch runs if the tying/winning run is on base. I think he left Reese because even if Semien hits a double, Reese can stop at 3rd because Semien needs to score in order to tie that game.

 

Not saying the logic is great but that seems to be the pattern.

 

Your logic makes some sense, but then why pinch run for McGuire at all in that case? It seems that he's saving Davis for a specific scenario and when that no longer becomes viable, he changes tact and puts in Davis. I just don't know what that scenario is.

[Brownie19]

I'm being sarcastic. I don't really think he was playing Chess. He used some of his relievers and they performed.

 

He did exactly as you wanted (removed Chatwood) in one of the Tampa games, and the next guy imploded too. So no guarantee removing Chatwood a couple of batter earlier would of worked.

 

This is the point. Charlie's mistake don't lose games. They lose 10% of a game. Over a season? Maybe they lose a game or 2.

 

Even really good teams often don't do good in 1 run games. Tampa Bay this year has a losing record in 1 run games, same with Yankees in 2019.

 

2015 Jays 15-28 in one run games. But unbelievably still won 93.

 

One run games are luck. No magic manager is going to win the pennant (consistently) by going 30-15 in 1 run games every year. Charlie just splits the close games like everyone else.

 

I agree with this.

[Brownie19]

So you are saying it is the managers fault when the bullpen fails but not his credit (or "lucky") when they are successful

 

That's a pretty standard view from most fans unfortunately.

[Ryu In My House]

Montoyo places 21st here:

 

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/all_30_mlb_managers_ranked/s1__34502618#slide_1

 

No word about the metrics they used. Too bad there wasn't an fWAR for managers. That would be awesome.

[BigCecil]

I'm being sarcastic. I don't really think he was playing Chess. He used some of his relievers and they performed.

 

He did exactly as you wanted (removed Chatwood) in one of the Tampa games, and the next guy imploded too. So no guarantee removing Chatwood a couple of batter earlier would of worked.

 

This is the point. Charlie's mistake don't lose games. They lose 10% of a game. Over a season? Maybe they lose a game or 2.

 

Even really good teams often don't do good in 1 run games. Tampa Bay this year has a losing record in 1 run games, same with Yankees in 2019.

 

2015 Jays 15-28 in one run games. But unbelievably still won 93.

 

One run games are luck. No magic manager is going to win the pennant (consistently) by going 30-15 in 1 run games every year. Charlie just splits the close games like everyone else.

 

I agree with this.

 

I agree with this.

 

Then I met Charlie.

 

I think negative WAR manager. How much is highly debatable and apparently impossible to quantify, but a 1-3 Wins to this point important. A lot of people around baseball (not always a good barometer i know) are shaking their head at Montoyo.

[5ToolPhenom]

I don't think he was trying to prove a point. They probably discussed this scenario before hand and decided they wanted to avoid having a guy warm up behind Chatwood because it didn't work last time.

 

It's weird that they did things both ways

 

1. In the Tampa game they had a guy warming up behind Chatwood and did bring him in, Bergen blew it and they lost

2. In the Cleveland game they did it the other way, tried to avoid having a guy warm up, because maybe it got in Chatwood's head... this didn't work either.

 

All of this complaining is contingent on Romano being a great reliever and available whenever we want. How do we know Romano can pitch both ends of double header ? Or 4 times in 5 days? He also has a bit of an injury history.

 

And how do we even know Romano is that good? He looks great in 30 career innings, but so did Steve Delebar.

 

It doesn't matter who he gets up. He had to have SOMEONE ready and can't let a reliever walk 4 straight batters in a 1 run game in the last inning, especially after the pitcher almost blew it in the previous inning. And it's not like Chatwood was battling the hitters with 10 pitch at bats and was just losing guys. It was basically 4 straight balls after 4 straight balls.

 

The bottom line is Chatwood was recently pissed that he got pulled so Montoyo in a vindictive way said "oh yeah? You're mad that I took you out of that game? well here, it's all on you now. Let's see how you would have got out of it". It's childish and does a disservice to the sanctity of the game.

 

To make matters worse, in the press conference after the game he basically rationalized "so what? we already won 2 out of the 3 games. That's good enough for me, in fact it doesn't get any better than that". The guy's an absolute clown.

[BlueJays]

Hello