Spring/Summer Training, 2020

[max silver]

man - you need to move on from this.

 

If Alford is cut before the end of Spring Training, than who's the 26th man on this roster. Tellez? J.Davis? insert whoever you want. Than compare that player to Puig. Puig is better. He's probably better than Fisher and Teoscar too. He even projects to be better than Gurriel (if you even out the projected games played), who also seems to get hurt a lot. The reality is we are thin - and not very good in the outfield. Puig is probably what is he - a 1.5 to 2 WAR player. But he's an obvious upgrade over what we have.

 

Puig is obviously a very polarizing player and his name keeps popping up in various threads at this point. Sooner or later this discussion will die down, he'll sign with somebody, rosters will be set, etc. etc. etc. so. Let's have a friendly wager on who has a better 2020, just for bragging rights. I say both Teoscar and Gurriel will put up better WARs by the end of the year than Puig. Those guys are both still improving while Puig to my eyes looks to be going backwards.

 

This is still a rebuilding squad, and there are a million outfielders the Jays are looking at to see who can perform at MLB. Puig is almost certainly going to be better than all of these guys no doubt, but he's a basket case who has been a disruptive presence. I say let him be somebody else's problem.

[max silver]

I would be fine with that. I'm not expecting him to be a great player or anything, but as a 4th/5th OF, he seems more likely to stick than Alford. Davis has historically hit lhp in the minors, is a very good defensive player, and is fast. Maybe a bootleg RH Jarrod Dyson. Use him in very specific situations and he'll have value.

 

Out of the minor league guys Davis is the one I like the best as well. He doesn't have a super high ceiling, but the floor looks to be higher than the other guys. He's taken a long time to reach MLB as he's needed to repeat a ton of levels in the minors, but each year he has made substantial improvements to his results, adding both improved power and walks to his game. He had a rough MLB debut, but after having a chance to adjust to MLB pitching maybe he improves enough at the plate to provide some value.

[BlueRocky]

Out of the minor league guys Davis is the one I like the best as well. He doesn't have a super high ceiling, but the floor looks to be higher than the other guys. He's taken a long time to reach MLB as he's needed to repeat a ton of levels in the minors, but each year he has made substantial improvements to his results, adding both improved power and walks to his game. He had a rough MLB debut, but after having a chance to adjust to MLB pitching maybe he improves enough at the plate to provide some value.

 

He provides defensive value and has always been a lead off hitter & base stealing threat. I’m just not sure his bat is advanced enough, or get on base enough, to play everyday. Strikeouts have been his nemesis, but he does occasionally take a walk. As a 4th OF though he fits the bill.

[Abomination]

 

If this is the case, then it likely means that Tellez is the DH, Fisher will be the 4th OF and Anthony Alford will head to waivers.

 

That's leads to a really deep lineup, every starter is project to hit 100 wRC+ or better according to Steamer. On the flipside, that is some awful defense.

 

The defense might not be as bad as you think. Gurriel and Grichuk were roughly average last year at their expected positions. Teoscar was a bit below average if you include CF, average if you don't. I wouldn't label it as terrible. It's just not exciting.

[Ryu In My House]

 

If this is the case, then it likely means that Tellez is the DH, Fisher will be the 4th OF and Anthony Alford will head to waivers.

 

That's leads to a really deep lineup, every starter is project to hit 100 wRC+ or better according to Steamer. On the flipside, that is some awful defense.

 

I agree. Alford has totally played his way off this roster. How long before he is an Oriole?

[Ryu In My House]

The defense might not be as bad as you think. Gurriel and Grichuk were roughly average last year at their expected positions. Teoscar was a bit below average if you include CF, average if you don't. I wouldn't label it as terrible. It's just not exciting.

 

Every time I see Fisher play defense, he looks horrible. Like I have my glove on and I'm out there playing.

[Laika]

The defense might not be as bad as you think. Gurriel and Grichuk were roughly average last year at their expected positions. Teoscar was a bit below average if you include CF, average if you don't. I wouldn't label it as terrible. It's just not exciting.

 

Gurriel - Grichuk - Teoscar is a high variance OF with a lot of downside risk. Not much to take to the bank.

 

In a good world, Gurriel is a 3 win player and Grichuk and Hernandez both approach 2 WAR. But in a bad world Toronto could get like, 2.0 WAR total from the three.

 

On an individual level it would not be shocking to see any of them have years under 1 WAR. Grichuk just did it, Gurriel is a big BABIP risk as a low BB% player without much defensive value, and Teoscar has basically been a 1 WAR player his entire career.

 

I don't think the defense would be that horrible though and I am slightly excited to see what Gurriel and Hernandez do this year.

[max silver]

 

If this is the case, then it likely means that Tellez is the DH, Fisher will be the 4th OF and Anthony Alford will head to waivers.

 

That's leads to a really deep lineup, every starter is project to hit 100 wRC+ or better according to Steamer. On the flipside, that is some awful defense.

 

This defense may end up being ok. Grichuk by Statcast outs above average has been mostly average or slightly better in his career, UZR and DRS are mostly neutral on his defense as well. Gurriel looked to me to be a guy that might end up as a very good defender once he's completely comfortable in the outfield. He has a knack for making quick release super accurate throws from the outfield, and is able to make some pretty spectacular catches due to his athleticism. The biggest question mark to me is what Teoscar looks like in right field. For much of the year he was actually surprisingly decent in left field before resuming adventure mode later in the season after getting moved out of center field. The speed allows him to get to balls that a lot of players don't, the arm is plus as well, but how many boneheaded mistakes he makes out there will ultimately determine whether he has any business playing right field.

[Ray]

Doesn't really matter who's manning RF this season when we're definitely getting Mookie Betts next year.

[max silver]

Doesn't really matter who's manning RF this season when we're definitely getting Mookie Betts next year.

 

I'd make do with a George Springer addition for center field instead if/when the team misses out on Betts.

[Abomination]

I'd make do with a George Springer addition for center field instead if/when the team misses out on Betts.

 

Why not be greedy and get both?

[Omar]

[Spanky__99]

FYI... the Jays replay is on SN1 right now.

[saskjayfan]

Doesn't really matter who's manning RF this season when we're definitely getting Mookie Betts next year.

 

yeah, why would he want to play with the Dodgers when he can play for us for less money.

[Spanky__99]

yeah, why would he want to play with the Dodgers when he can play for us for less money.

 

I don't get you, man?

[Jonn]

 

[The Iceman]

Jays need to cut bait with a few guys and upgrade their MLB roster.

Doesn't take a Brian Cashman to upgrade on Rowdy, Fisher, Pannone and Drury. We all see these guys as below average with Rowdy having a chance to earn his way back with improved hitting in Buffalo.

 

We would look so much better adding Puig for Fisher

Addison Russell, Scooter Gennett or Brock Holt for Drury

McHugh or even Aaron Loup for Pannone.

and just a stick for Rowdy, Dozier-Kipnis-Holt

 

Our team has potential. Why not improve its weakest links which to me is low hanging fruit.

[wilko]

Jays need to cut bait with a few guys and upgrade their MLB roster.

Doesn't take a Brian Cashman to upgrade on Rowdy, Fisher, Pannone and Drury. We all see these guys as below average with Rowdy having a chance to earn his way back with improved hitting in Buffalo.

 

We would look so much better adding Puig for Fisher

Addison Russell, Scooter Gennett or Brock Holt for Drury

McHugh or even Aaron Loup for Pannone.

and just a stick for Rowdy, Dozier-Kipnis-Holt

 

Our team has potential. Why not improve its weakest links which to me is low hanging fruit.

 

Did you just get defrosted? Holt and McHugh just signed with teams. The only name you mentioned who would be an upgrade is Puig.

Edited March 10, 2020 by wilko

[The Iceman]

Did you just get defrosted? Holt and McHugh just signed with teams. The only name you mentioned who would be an upgrade is Puig.

 

Drury is that good is he...start paying attention

and my player tracker is MLB.com. thought they might be accurate.

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/2020-mlb-free-agents-by-position

[wilko]

Drury is that good is he...start paying attention

and my player tracker is MLB.com. thought they might be accurate.

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/2020-mlb-free-agents-by-position

 

I never said Drury was good.

[BlueRocky]

 

There’s hope for Chavez Young?

[Deadpool]

I never said Drury was good.

 

Drury also has options, does he not? No need to "cut bait" on anyone with options.

[Beans]

[Beans]

Blue Jays sending 10 players down to minor league camp.

 

Pitchers being sent down are:

 

Thomas Hatch, Elvis Luciano, Julian Merryweather, Patrick Murphy, Hector Perez and T.J. Zeuch.

 

Position players being sent down:

 

Catcher Alejandro Kirk, INF Patrick Kivlehan, INF Nash Night and INF Logan Warmoth.

 

https://www.tsn.ca/toronto-blue-jays-send-logan-warmoth-alejandro-kirk-to-minors-camp-1.1455464

[wilko]

Drury also has options, does he not? No need to "cut bait" on anyone with options.

 

Yup, that he does.

[glory]

 

There’s hope for Chavez Young?

 

I remember hearing an interview a couple of months back where Atkins was asked who in the minors he thought could take a leap in 2020 and he mentioned Young (legit CF but bat has to catch up) and Kirk specifically. I wouldn't rule him out. Seems to have a legit glove in CF and good speed. Just 22. Still time for something to develop.

[BlueRocky]

I remember hearing an interview a couple of months back where Atkins was asked who in the minors he thought could take a leap in 2020 and he mentioned Young (legit CF but bat has to catch up) and Kirk specifically. I wouldn't rule him out. Seems to have a legit glove in CF and good speed. Just 22. Still time for something to develop.

 

I know a couple guys on Radioscouts were very high on him. I hear he’s solid at CF and arm could be comparable to Griffin Conine (which has a ridiculous OF arm). The speed is also plus, so the bat really just has to catch-up.

[Deadpool]

Man, that was one hell of a catch from Reggie Pruit.

[Deadpool]

Espinal with a homer and a terrific play at short. He and Panik are both making excellent cases for backup MIF...

[Brownie19]

Espinal with a homer and a terrific play at short. He and Panik are both making excellent cases for backup MIF...

 

Espinal has options, so it's really not much of a battle.