Around Baseball 2020

[Orgfiller]

This Joe Gatto signing by the Rangers is really strange. Am I missing something?

 

Gatto's agent deserves a raise.

 

Seriously, how does he get a major league contract?

 

He was converted to a reliever last year and was working out with Driveline/other private independent instruction this season, apparently hitting high 90s. I imagine they held a workout with him and the stuff must have really impressed them.

 

You can look through his twitter a bit and you'll see a ton of retweets of Driveline and other private development orgs.

[Spanky__99]

He was converted to a reliever last year and was working out with Driveline/other private independent instruction this season, apparently hitting high 90s. I imagine they held a workout with him and the stuff must have really impressed them.

 

You can look through his twitter a bit and you'll see a ton of retweets of Driveline and other private development orgs.

 

Thanks Org, that explains it. Kid shoves gas!

[Brownie19]

He was converted to a reliever last year and was working out with Driveline/other private independent instruction this season, apparently hitting high 90s. I imagine they held a workout with him and the stuff must have really impressed them.

 

You can look through his twitter a bit and you'll see a ton of retweets of Driveline and other private development orgs.

 

Can we send TJ Zoinks and SRF to Driveline?

[Spanky__99]

Can we send TJ Zoinks and SRF to Driveline?

 

Doesn't SRF throw in the upper 90's? It's more of control going off memory. TJ throws hard too but an extreme GB guy, boring but might be effective. Your point still holds.

[King]

Doesn't SRF throw in the upper 90's? It's more of control going off memory. TJ throws hard too but an extreme GB guy, boring but might be effective. Your point still holds.

No, he doesn't. Zeuch doesn't throw hard either, lol. Do you even watch the games?

[saskjayfan]

No, he doesn't. Zeuch doesn't throw hard either, lol. Do you even watch the games?

 

His fastball averaged 94.6 MPH. That definitely ticked up the end of the previous year where his velocity had dipped to low 90s. He definitely touched 97 this year. He could have a chance as a reliever.

[Laika]

His fastball averaged 94.6 MPH. That definitely ticked up the end of the previous year where his velocity had dipped to low 90s. He definitely touched 97 this year. He could have a chance as a reliever.

 

That's pretty pedestrian for a RHRP these days. Not sure that would even qualify as a 60 grade pitch.

[Krylian]

His fastball averaged 94.6 MPH. That definitely ticked up the end of the previous year where his velocity had dipped to low 90s. He definitely touched 97 this year. He could have a chance as a reliever.

 

Was movement sacrificed for the added velocity?

[King]

That's pretty pedestrian for a RHRP these days. Not sure that would even qualify as a 60 grade pitch.

 

I would send them both their DFA slips before I sent them plane tickets to driveline.

 

Was movement sacrificed for the added velocity?

 

It's a high spin 4-seamer, lol. Not a sinker.

[Spanky__99]

No, he doesn't. Zeuch doesn't throw hard either, lol. Do you even watch the games?

 

How much has he pitched? Seemed alright to me. Meh... BP options don't hurt King.

[Laika]

I would send them both their DFA slips before I sent them plane tickets to driveline.

 

arms like them grow on trees but they might have some utility as long as they are making league minimum and have options

[King]

arms like them grow on trees but they might have some utility as long as they are making league minimum and have options

Yeah, I mean they are acceptable as bodies to fill out the 40-man roster. Zeuch has been serviceable in a limited sample as a mop-up guy. Foley can't get even throw strikes when he gets in the game though so I would just send him packing first.

 

At the end of the day they both suck and definitely won't be on this team past next season.

[Grant77]

Zeuch's extreme groundball tendencies and good command give him a shot to be a useful starter. There are plenty of guys like Dallas Keuchel that succeed with mediocre K numbers. Mike Leake isn't exactly a sexy comp, but averaged over 2 WAR for 6 years.

 

This same front office rolled with Jake Westbrook and his sub 5 K/9 for 9 years. They obviously see some value in a pitcher like that, even more now that the home run has become so prevalent and shifts have reduced the value of ground balls.

[King]

Zeuch's extreme groundball tendencies and good command give him a shot to be a useful starter. There are plenty of guys like Dallas Keuchel that succeed with mediocre K numbers. Mike Leake isn't exactly a sexy comp, but averaged over 2 WAR for 6 years.

 

This same front office rolled with Jake Westbrook and his sub 5 K/9 for 9 years. They obviously see some value in a pitcher like that, even more now that the home run has become so prevalent and shifts have reduced the value of ground balls.

 

Swing and a miss, Grant. Unlike Zoinks.

[Grant77]

Swing and a miss, Grant. Unlike Zoinks.

 

'Someone provided facts that don't back up my uninformed opinion, better go with a snarky comment'

[King]

'Someone provided facts that don't back up my uninformed opinion, better go with a snarky comment'

All of those guys are different pitchers than Zoinks.

 

Leake has a career zone percentage of 52%. Zeuch is sitting at 38%. His strike throwing abilities are probably average (at best). It is most certainly not above average. In fact 38% is comfortably a below average zone%. So he doesn't even throw strikes at an above average rate.

 

Keuchel also has/had vastly superior strikeout ability to Zoinks and sustained good strikeout numbers in his prime. That's not a good comparison at all.

 

And his groundball abilities aren't "extreme". Zach Brittons groundball abilities are extreme. There are many pitchers who rock a 52 GB% out of the pen.

 

Your take that he could be a useful starter is asinine and I really think you must be trolling, because there's almost nothing in Zeuchs profile that suggests he could be that.

 

Zeuch is probably closer to Justin Nicolino in talent level than he is Keuchel or Leake.

[Grant77]

All of those guys are different pitchers than Zoinks.

 

Leake has a career zone percentage of 52%. Zeuch is sitting at 38%. His strike throwing abilities are probably average (at best). It is most certainly not above average.

 

Keuchel also has/had vastly superior strikeout ability to Zoinks and sustained good strikeout numbers in his prime. That's not a good comparison at all.

 

And his groundball abilities aren't "extreme". Zach Brittons groundball abilities are extreme. There are many pitchers who rock a 52 GB% out of the pen.

 

Your take that he could be a useful starter is asinine and I really think you must be trolling, because there's almost nothing in Zeuchs profile that suggests he could be that.

 

Zeuch is probably closer to Justin Nicolino in talent level than he is Keuchel or Leake.

 

This is hilariously uninformed. We're going to use a 34 inning sample over 5 years of minor league data and scouting reports saying he has good command? Fangraphs already lists his command as above average on their 20-80 scale and there is more potential on top of that. We often see very tall pitchers take a bit longer to harness their command.

 

I think it was clear that Zeuch wasn't being compared to Cy Young level Keuchel, but the current version that is still very effective with poor K numbers. You just have no relevant points to make so you resort to hyperbole.

 

As for the groundball rate, you are attempting to mislead once again. A groundball rate in the middle 50s is indeed an extremely high mark for a starting pitcher. There have been an average of 2 such pitchers per season over the last 5 years.

[King]

This is hilariously uninformed. We're going to use a 34 inning sample over 5 years of minor league data and scouting reports saying he has good command? Fangraphs already lists his command as above average on their 20-80 scale and there is more potential on top of that. We often see very tall pitchers take a bit longer to harness their command.

 

I think it was clear that Zeuch wasn't being compared to Cy Young level Keuchel, but the current version that is still very effective with poor K numbers. You just have no relevant points to make so you resort to hyperbole.

 

As for the groundball rate, you are attempting to mislead once again. A groundball rate in the middle 50s is indeed an extremely high mark for a starting pitcher. There have been an average of 2 such pitchers per season over the last 5 years.

 

And you're backtracking. Just take the L and walk away Grant.

[Spanky__99]

Swing and a miss, Grant. Unlike Zoinks.

 

lol

[Grant77]

And you're backtracking. Just take the L and walk away Grant.

 

Openly challenging your lies and misleading statements is the exact opposite of backtracking . I'm enjoying seeing you squirm in your own pool of stupidity though, keep going.

[Spanky__99]

Can Zoinks stick?

[Grant77]

Can Zoinks stick?

 

Even asking that question is an asinine statement I am told.

[max silver]

This is hilariously uninformed. We're going to use a 34 inning sample over 5 years of minor league data and scouting reports saying he has good command? Fangraphs already lists his command as above average on their 20-80 scale and there is more potential on top of that. We often see very tall pitchers take a bit longer to harness their command.

 

I think it was clear that Zeuch wasn't being compared to Cy Young level Keuchel, but the current version that is still very effective with poor K numbers. You just have no relevant points to make so you resort to hyperbole.

 

As for the groundball rate, you are attempting to mislead once again. A groundball rate in the middle 50s is indeed an extremely high mark for a starting pitcher. There have been an average of 2 such pitchers per season over the last 5 years.

 

Zeuch is essentially completely reliant on ground balls finding their way into gloves, there is very little chance he is going to have sustained success as a starter. The guy's XERA for 2019 and 2020 are 6.64 and 5.18. His stuff is mediocre, and his only real skill is effectively sinking a baseball as he has both mediocre velocity and spin rate on his pitches. The story with Zeuch is the same as it has always been, unless he develops effective secondary pitch(es) he has a very low ceiling.

[King]

Zeuch is essentially completely reliant on ground balls finding their way into gloves, there is very little chance he is going to have sustained success as a starter. The guy's XERA for 2019 and 2020 are 6.64 and 5.18. His stuff is mediocre, and his only real skill is effectively sinking a baseball as he has both mediocre velocity and spin rate on his pitches. The story with Zeuch is the same as it has always been, unless he develops effective secondary pitch(es) he has a very low ceiling.

His sinker is f***ing terrible lol. Career .430 xWOBA!

[max silver]

His sinker is f***ing terrible lol. Career .430 xWOBA!

 

Yeah it's been hammered, 96.1 MPH EV is 2020, better in 2019 at 91.7 MPH but still squared up way too much.

[Spanky__99]

Take care of each other, you're the future.

[Grant77]

Zeuch is essentially completely reliant on ground balls finding their way into gloves, there is very little chance he is going to have sustained success as a starter. The guy's XERA for 2019 and 2020 are 6.64 and 5.18. His stuff is mediocre, and his only real skill is effectively sinking a baseball as he has both mediocre velocity and spin rate on his pitches. The story with Zeuch is the same as it has always been, unless he develops effective secondary pitch(es) he has a very low ceiling.

 

Groundballs find their way into gloves a lot. That's why a guy like Jake Westbrook can start almost 300 games in the big leagues with a K/9 under 5.

 

We'll see what happens with Zeuch, but you just don't see many starters putting up groundball rates over 60 in the minors. It's an overlooked and valuable skill, even moreso in the launch angle revolution. It's clear that the FO sees something in him. Atkins brings up his name all of the time.

[Carlos Danger]

Take care of each other, you're the future.

 

Everything ok Spanky?

[Spanky__99]

Everything ok Spanky?

 

I mean we are, no?

[Orgfiller]

Swing and a miss, Grant. Unlike Zoinks.

 

Lol this was good