Around Baseball 2020

[Laika]

I'm not so sure I'd agree with you here. Estrada was able to pitch for several years with recurring back injuries. It's entirely possible the conservative treatments are what enabled him to pitch as long as he did, without them he very well may have been finished years ago. A quick glance at google shows that Estrada was dealing with back problems all the way back to at least spring training in 2016, he didn't end up retiring until many years later.

 

I don't think James Paxton's goal is to barely make it through another season or two before becoming terrible and ending his career.

[max silver]

I don't think James Paxton's goal is to barely make it through another season or two before becoming terrible and ending his career.

 

Without knowing specifics about Marco's injury it seems possible there wasn't really a surgical intervention available for his particular issue, perhaps it was more degenerative in nature. I'm not sure why you are so gung-ho here that Paxton should have just went under the knife immediately. In my limited interaction with surgeons they have always recommended surgery as a final option, not the first. Surgery always carries risks of complications, things like infections and ultimately death are possible. Opting for more conservative and hence lower risk treatment is recommended first is at all possible.

[wilko]

Without knowing specifics about Marco's injury it seems possible there wasn't really a surgical intervention available for his particular issue, perhaps it was more degenerative in nature. I'm not sure why you are so gung-ho here that Paxton should have just went under the knife immediately. In my limited interaction with surgeons they have always recommended surgery as a final option, not the first. Surgery always carries risks of complications, things like infections and ultimately death are possible. Opting for more conservative and hence lower risk treatment is recommended first is at all possible.

 

Do you work for Goop?

[max silver]

Do you work for Goop?

 

Why is your supply running low?

[Laika]

Without knowing specifics about Marco's injury it seems possible there wasn't really a surgical intervention available for his particular issue, perhaps it was more degenerative in nature. I'm not sure why you are so gung-ho here that Paxton should have just went under the knife immediately. In my limited interaction with surgeons they have always recommended surgery as a final option, not the first. Surgery always carries risks of complications, things like infections and ultimately death are possible. Opting for more conservative and hence lower risk treatment is recommended first is at all possible.

 

I already said that I understand why James Paxton himself might not have wanted it, but I've already been proven right that he should have had the procedure earlier. The conservative treatment didn't work. It was a s***** decision in hindsight to waste time on it.

 

He is going to miss ~half of the season if he is lucky, and perhaps most of the season. This is his last season before free agency. He is 31. Missing a big chunk or 2020 will potentially cost him millions and millions of dollars.

 

High level athletes simply do not live in our normal world when it comes to surgical decisions and interventions. You are not an elite athlete.

 

I've never been gung-ho about anything in my entire life, so don't you dare accuse me of caring.

[max silver]

I already said that I understand why James Paxton himself might not have wanted it, but I've already been proven right that he should have had the procedure earlier. The conservative treatment didn't work. It was a s***** decision in hindsight to waste time on it.

 

He is going to miss ~half of the season if he is lucky, and perhaps most of the season. This is his last season before free agency. He is 31. Missing a big chunk or 2020 will potentially cost him millions and millions of dollars.

 

High level athletes simply do not live in our normal world when it comes to surgical decisions and interventions. You are not an elite athlete.

 

I've never been gung-ho about anything in my entire life, so don't you dare accuse me of caring.

 

I would tend to think the main factor that will determine Paxton's financial future is the success or lack thereof of the surgical procedure. If he doesn't successfully bounce back from it the decision to wait a few months before going under the knife won't ultimately matter. I used to think that Paxton would be a great target for the Jays next off-season, now with the back issues I'm not so sure.

[Laika]

I would tend to think the main factor that will determine Paxton's financial future is the success or lack thereof of the surgical procedure. If he doesn't successfully bounce back from it the decision to wait a few months before going under the knife won't ultimately matter. I used to think that Paxton would be a great target for the Jays next off-season, now with the back issues I'm not so sure.

 

There is a limited window for high end free agents to maximize their earnings. If Paxton the surgery earlier and then had a mostly healthy 2020, he would have been positioned for a big payday. That's out the window now because his 2020 will be mostly on the DL. And even if he takes a pillow contract before 2021 and tries to bounce back to get a big payday he will likely be too old for that to pay off. Kind of screwed at this point.

 

I mean, he'll still be loaded and he might get a good deal but the ceiling has come down quite a bit.

[Jimcanuck]

I already said that I understand why James Paxton himself might not have wanted it, but I've already been proven right that he should have had the procedure earlier. The conservative treatment didn't work. It was a s***** decision in hindsight to waste time on it.

 

Hindsight is 20/20. The decision to try and mitigate the issue by non-invasive method would be in consultation with medical personnel. We aren't privy to the info they had when the decision was made. Maybe the docs gave it a 70% chance of success? Vs. a 5% chance of unsuccessful surgery, ending his career?

 

Not an easy choice.

[Laika]

Hindsight is 20/20. The decision to try and mitigate the issue by non-invasive method would be in consultation with medical personnel. We aren't privy to the info they had when the decision was made. Maybe the docs gave it a 70% chance of success? Vs. a 5% chance of unsuccessful surgery, ending his career?

 

Not an easy choice.

 

They could also have been recommending the surgery but Paxton opted for the essential oils first. Agreed that we just don't know the context of the decision.

[King]

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2020/2/6/21124292/red-sox-dodgers-alex-verdugo-the-unspoken-problem-with-the-mookie-betts-david-price-trade

 

The unspoken problem with the Mookie Betts trade - by Sheryl Ring

[max silver]

There is a limited window for high end free agents to maximize their earnings. If Paxton the surgery earlier and then had a mostly healthy 2020, he would have been positioned for a big payday. That's out the window now because his 2020 will be mostly on the DL. And even if he takes a pillow contract before 2021 and tries to bounce back to get a big payday he will likely be too old for that to pay off. Kind of screwed at this point.

 

I mean, he'll still be loaded and he might get a good deal but the ceiling has come down quite a bit.

 

I tend to think he'll be just fine if the surgery is successful and his medicals look good. Josh Donaldson is a perfect recent example of a guy who took a one year pillow deal to rebuild his value, he still ended up with a nice deal well into his 30's despite a rather extensive recent injury history. Sure Paxton might not be looking at a Stephen Strasburg type contract, but he wasn't necessarily in that upper tier of starters to begin with.

Edited February 6, 2020 by max silver
typo

[Brownie19]

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2020/2/6/21124292/red-sox-dodgers-alex-verdugo-the-unspoken-problem-with-the-mookie-betts-david-price-trade

 

The unspoken problem with the Mookie Betts trade - by Sheryl Ring

 

King - you bastard. Don't post that s***.

[Grant77]

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2020/2/6/21124292/red-sox-dodgers-alex-verdugo-the-unspoken-problem-with-the-mookie-betts-david-price-trade

 

The unspoken problem with the Mookie Betts trade - by Sheryl Ring

 

So he was present in a room where another drunk guy touched a drunk girl's vagina. Oh the horror! Put him in jail right away.

[Laika]

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2020/2/6/21124292/red-sox-dodgers-alex-verdugo-the-unspoken-problem-with-the-mookie-betts-david-price-trade

 

The unspoken problem with the Mookie Betts trade - by Sheryl Ring

 

So he was present in a room where another drunk guy touched a drunk girl's vagina. Oh the horror! Put him in jail right away.

 

Sheryl Ring, Esq., again polluting the internet with some of the worst legal analysis possible.

 

It doesn't even sound like Baldwin was charged, so Alex Verdugo categorically cannot be an accomplice or an accessory to crime. There was no crime, from a legal perspective - just an accusation. Even ignoring that, the stated facts basically only say that the stuff stopped when everyone else (Verdugo too) entered the room, so he probably wasn't even there during whatever happened. You can't be an accessory to something you didn't even know happened. It's worse though because s/he even considers him being an accomplice to the non-crime, which really would only be possible if he had some form of knowledge about it and let it happen. None of the facts as stated would support that in any way.

 

Ring says "if the reports in question are accurate, Alex Verdugo was legally culpable in a sexual assault." This is just so irresponsible. S/he must be a terrible actual lawyer.

 

Ring isn't just jumping to a conclusion, she is jumping to a conclusion and then jumping from that conclusion to other conclusions. We can call this "jumping to delusions" (Copyright Laika 2020).

Edited February 6, 2020 by Laika

[Boxcar]

Sheryl Ring, Esq., again polluting the internet with some of the worst legal analysis possible.

 

It doesn't even sound like Baldwin was charged, so Alex Verdugo categorically cannot be an accomplice or an accessory to crime. There was no crime, from a legal perspective - just an accusation. Even ignoring that, the stated facts basically only say that the stuff stopped when everyone else (Verdugo too) entered the room, so he probably wasn't even there during whatever happened. You can't be an accessory to something you didn't even know happened. It's worse though because s/he even considers him being an accomplice to the non-crime, which really would only be possible if he had some form of knowledge about it and let it happen. None of the facts as stated would support that in any way.

 

Ring says "if the reports in question are accurate, Alex Verdugo was legally culpable in a sexual assault." This is just so irresponsible. S/he must be a terrible actual lawyer.

 

Ring isn't just jumping to a conclusion, she is jumping to a conclusion and then jumping from that conclusion to other conclusions. We can call this "jumping to delusions" (Copyright Laika 2020).

 

Well, I don't know many good lawyers that use their time to write s***** baseball articles for pennies

[Bobthe4th]

 

Shame it won't happen for a few years, but hopefully this is the next step in the much needed relocation of the Rays.

[saskjayfan]

Sheryl Ring, Esq., again polluting the internet with some of the worst legal analysis possible.

 

It doesn't even sound like Baldwin was charged, so Alex Verdugo categorically cannot be an accomplice or an accessory to crime. There was no crime, from a legal perspective - just an accusation. Even ignoring that, the stated facts basically only say that the stuff stopped when everyone else (Verdugo too) entered the room, so he probably wasn't even there during whatever happened. You can't be an accessory to something you didn't even know happened. It's worse though because s/he even considers him being an accomplice to the non-crime, which really would only be possible if he had some form of knowledge about it and let it happen. None of the facts as stated would support that in any way.

 

Ring says "if the reports in question are accurate, Alex Verdugo was legally culpable in a sexual assault." This is just so irresponsible. S/he must be a terrible actual lawyer.

 

Ring isn't just jumping to a conclusion, she is jumping to a conclusion and then jumping from that conclusion to other conclusions. We can call this "jumping to delusions" (Copyright Laika 2020).

 

You should introduce Verdugo to your daughter. He seems like a nice fellow.

[Beans]

You should introduce Verdugo to your daughter. He seems like a nice fellow.

 

He's a Mexican with a ginger beard—what's not to like?

[Laika]

You should introduce Verdugo to your daughter. He seems like a nice fellow.

 

She only dates black guys

[saskjayfan]

She only dates black guys

 

you don't even have an imaginary girlfriend, let alone an imaginary daughter into black guys.

[Laika]

you don't even have an imaginary girlfriend, let alone an imaginary daughter into black guys.

 

I'm 12 but I absolutely do have an imaginary girlfriend and you better leave her (Yuki) the f*** out of this

[max silver]

 

Shame it won't happen for a few years, but hopefully this is the next step in the much needed relocation of the Rays.

 

I always thought this plan was extremely stupid. Expecting two separate cities to both cough up the necessary cash to build stadiums for only half of a season of Major League Baseball doesn't seem likely.

[Laika]

I always thought this plan was extremely stupid. Expecting two separate cities to both cough up the necessary cash to build stadiums for only half of a season of Major League Baseball doesn't seem likely.

 

Expecting one city to cough up the cash to build an MLB stadium is extremely stupid, yet it happens all the time. Don't ever put an upper bound on the amount of realized stupidity, man.

[Beans]

I tend to think he'll be just fine if the surgery is successful and his medicals look good. Josh Donaldson is a perfect recent example of a guy who took a one year pillow deal to rebuild his value, he still ended up with a nice deal well into his 30's despite a rather extensive recent injury history. Sure Paxton might not be looking at a Stephen Strasburg type contract, but he wasn't necessarily in that upper tier of starters to begin with.

To your point earlier about the risk of surgery, the fact that Paxton is having microsurgery makes it a little different. First, it's just a small incision. Second, they do the work by imaging, so they're not going in there rattling around. It's not the same level of risk as more open surgery.

 

I had a herniated disc before, not too long ago, ultimately from an athletic injury (hamstring) that I tried to play through. I was offered surgery or physio (and actually do the physio homework and finally stop athletic activity that aggravates it). I went for the latter and it cleared up in a few months. But I'm not an elite professional athlete, so not a good comp.

[Beans]

[sdyment]

 

Is the Mets job still open? Drafted by the Mets... love to see Gibby back in the game.

[Spanky__99]

Is the Mets job still open? Drafted by the Mets... love to see Gibby back in the game.

 

I'd love to see Gibby take Montoyo's job. Might take a year, but...

[Beans]

Is the Mets job still open? Drafted by the Mets... love to see Gibby back in the game.

 

Felipe Alou's son is the new manager of the Mets.

[sdyment]

Felipe Alou's son is the new manager of the Mets.

 

Moises?

[Beans]

Moises?

 

No, it’s Luis Rojas (Alou)