General 2020 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Olerud363]

So... we're all on the same boat? We expect Atkins to fly out to SD and get Peller drunk so he can swindle him into trading CJ Abrams and Luis Patino for Vladdy? Throw in an Owen Caissie for some good ol canadian boy charm?

 

I am only half joking here, if this team felt comfortable trading Vladdy I would be behind it. The package has to be incredible and not trading a player for the sake of a trade.

 

I know your half joking, but I'm not really for trading him, I'd at least like to see him come into camp in sort of shape and get 150 games in a proper season.

 

Complaining about Vlad's obesity/ground ball rate/occasional insanely bad at bats is different then hating him or giving up on him... being jealous that Tatis and Soto seem to be hall of famers from the first at bat is different than wanting to trade Vlad.

 

Interested to see what happens with 150 games at age 22 and 23. I'd love to see the young mostly home grown core stick together for a few years.

[Olerud363]

For people who like positivity - something positive about each player and how this team can become the greatest Blue Jay team ever

 

Top 3 Jays teams

 

1. The 92/93 Alomar/Olerud/Guzman/Morris/Winitor/White/Carter

2. The mid 80s Bell/Barfield/Fernandez/Moseby/Stieb/Key and others

3. Return to the playoffs Donaldson/Bautista/EE/Pillar/Prapp/Sanchez/Osuna

 

New Candidate - Homegrown mostly by Shapiro ******* guy

 

1b/dh - Vladito - can hit as 20/21 year old, 20 pounds and 3 degrees away from mind blowing offensive numbers

 

1b/dh - Rowdy - big guy, nice looking swing, 2017/2018 numbers may be deceiving because of tragedy. Let's say he had bad injury instead and there was no 2017?? How would you evaluate him if there was only 2016/2019/2020 numbers??

 

2b - Biggio - can't hit fastball, but also doesn't swing at ball and recognize pitches very early, thus he can cheat and start his very slow, non-fastball hitting swing early and connect with fastball that he can't actually hit, but he can be the ultimate cheater, hit a pitch he can't hit and walk 100+ times

 

ss - Bo bo - can hit fastball.

 

3b - Groshans? Martin?

 

lf - Gurriel - like Tellez has terrible minor league season in 2017... who knows if that was just an adjustment, probably another guy that would be viewed as an upcoming superstar even if he only had average minor league 2017.

So far looks like good hitter.

 

cf - Grichuk - Slight adjustment has changed completely from a .280 on base percentage guy, to a .320 on base percentage guy. Actually he's probably still a .300 on base percentage guy, but if he's the worst player that's a good team.

 

rf - Hernandez - slight adjustment has unveiled Sammy Sosa like 60 homer power.

 

c - Jansen - Batting average sucks but just can't remain this low. Russel Martin like homers and walks.

 

Projected 2022 numbers

 

1. Bo Bichette - .320 .380 .550

2. Cavan Biggio - .250 .370 .410

3. Vladito - .330 .430 .600 (assuming 240 pounds and 3+ degrees launch angle)

4. Tellez - .260 .330 .500

5. Hernandez - .270 .320 .500 (I'm not really thinking he's a 60 homer hitter)

6. Gurriel - ..280 .330 .500 (those are his career averages)

7. Grichuk - .250 .300 .480 (assume he is the same guy as ever)

8. Martin - .280 .340 .440 (or maybe Groshans, assume there is a good chance one of them is OK)

9. Jansen - .250 .330 .430

 

Other than Vladito everyone above is just projected to do what they are already doing (with Jansen getting some extra babip)

May be unrealistic because they may not be able to do it over a 160 game season

 

Vlad may be unrealistic but I am just going super positive on him because people complain I am too negative on him.

[Spanky99]

Ghosts and Goblins going on in here?

[bones10]

The f*** happened in here

[Stangstag]

Grichuk interviewed by Jomboy after last night's win:

 

 

Love the intro lol

[Deadpool]

Ghosts and Goblins going on in here?

 

The f*** happened in here

 

Looks like the board hiccuped and lost a bunch of posts...

[Spanky99]

Looks like the board hiccuped and lost a bunch of posts...

 

Yeah, it took my post after Olerud's message, and it's now in one of our Dynasty League threads, lol.

[EnglishJay]

Looks like we have a match up v De Grom on Friday night...ouch

[Abomination]

Looks like we have a match up v De Grom on Friday night...ouch

 

Looks like deGrom has a matchup against US.

[Olerud363]

What is up with Tellez?

 

Will Kirk come up if he mises time?? I think that would be the bold move.

 

This would of been Kirk's double a year. In a different world he could of demolished double a and triple a and of been a September call up... or maybe he even forced his way up earlier in the season. No one knows.

 

The teams that play this right will have a competitive advantage. I wonder how many real at bats Kirk has had??

 

Come to think of it teams could do anything with the alternative site. If they know guys have a certain weakness, they can just keep pitching to the weakness. If some guys are more important to develop, higher ranking prospects they could give them more "at bats"

 

Hell they could play game where Kirk is designated hitter for pitcher, short stop and center field and gets 12 at bats... Maybe Kirk has already had 500 at bats this year and they've trained him to be Edgar Martinez??

 

Really interested to see him.

[The Iceman]

What is up with Tellez?

 

Will Kirk come up if he mises time?? I think that would be the bold move.

 

This would of been Kirk's double a year. In a different world he could of demolished double a and triple a and of been a September call up... or maybe he even forced his way up earlier in the season. No one knows.

 

The teams that play this right will have a competitive advantage. I wonder how many real at bats Kirk has had??

 

Come to think of it teams could do anything with the alternative site. If they know guys have a certain weakness, they can just keep pitching to the weakness. If some guys are more important to develop, higher ranking prospects they could give them more "at bats"

 

Hell they could play game where Kirk is designated hitter for pitcher, short stop and center field and gets 12 at bats... Maybe Kirk has already had 500 at bats this year and they've trained him to be Edgar Martinez??

 

Really interested to see him.

 

SMOAK to the rescue

[wilko]

If Tellez is out they can just throw Fladdy at 1B and rotate guys at DH.

[JG34]

If Tellez is out they can just throw Fladdy at 1B and rotate guys at DH.

 

Ease Bo into the lineup at DH.

[Olerud363]

SMOAK to the rescue

 

Kirk could be better than Smoak. According to fangraphs their talents will converge sometime in 2021

 

That is based on Kirk 2019... we don't have data for Kirk 2020.

 

But Kirk has not been working at Wendy's, he has been at alternative site camp in Rochester doing something.

 

A smart organization would try to make that "something" very worthwhile and continue his develop.

 

So Kirk could be really good right now. If he had a proper minor league season and did OK all the fans would be screaming for him

 

I don't think we know how to deal the missing data properly.

[Olerud363]

As a side note the two most similar minor league players of all time are Kirk and Justin Smoak.

 

OK. That is not completely true. But they are pretty similar except Smoak was a college player I guess and started later.

 

They both hit a bit, walked a lot and didn't hit as many homeruns as you would expect from a 240 pounder

 

Except they took different strategies to get to 240 pounds. Smoak is about 10 inches taller.

[wilko]

As a side note the two most similar minor league players of all time are Kirk and Justin Smoak.

 

OK. That is not completely true. But they are pretty similar except Smoak was a college player I guess and started later.

 

They both hit a bit, walked a lot and didn't hit as many homeruns as you would expect from a 240 pounder

 

Except they took different strategies to get to 240 pounds. Smoak is about 10 inches taller.

 

Kirk's girth is in his dick.

[Slade]

 

They list Kirk as heavier than Vlad. Some of these guys man I don't get how they can have so many resources available to them and still not be able to get their conditioning under control.

[Boxcar]

 

They list Kirk as heavier than Vlad. Some of these guys man I don't get how they can have so many resources available to them and still not be able to get their conditioning under control.

 

I really doubt that's true tbh. I don't think Kirk is much fatter than Vlad, if he is at all.

[Pendleton]

 

They list Kirk as heavier than Vlad. Some of these guys man I don't get how they can have so many resources available to them and still not be able to get their conditioning under control.

 

Kirk ate all his resources

[wilko]

5'8" at 265? That's morbidly obese.

[Stangstag]

 

They list Kirk as heavier than Vlad. Some of these guys man I don't get how they can have so many resources available to them and still not be able to get their conditioning under control.

 

Can’t do much about it if they just love food and aren’t willing to cut their diet

[Olerud363]

5'8" at 265? That's morbidly obese.

 

We need him to get 600 at bats to know for sure whether obesity causes a 60% ground ball rate.

 

If he ends up as a .265 hitter with 15 homers, despite sharp contact, with 110 mph double plays and the occasional single off the wall then that would give us some answers.

[Jimcanuck]

Remember David Ortiz. Or Kirby Puckett.

[Pendleton]

Remember David Ortiz. Or Kirby Puckett.

 

I was reading a scouting report on Yankees prospect Canaan Smith, which described him as Kirby Pucket but 6'0 tall, what a beast.

[Olerud363]

Remember David Ortiz. Or Kirby Puckett.

 

Their weights may not be accurate but Ortiz is listed at 230 and Pucket at 178. Maybe those are buillshit or just their starting weights??

 

Nightmare. Vladdy's numbers in Tor and then Boston are like Ortiz numbers in Minn then Boston. Probably going to happen.

[Krylian]

 

They list Kirk as heavier than Vlad. Some of these guys man I don't get how they can have so many resources available to them and still not be able to get their conditioning under control.

 

Or get a f***ing scale that works. I guarantee you half of those guys aren't even close to their posted weight.

[connorp]

Their weights may not be accurate but Ortiz is listed at 230 and Pucket at 178. Maybe those are buillshit or just their starting weights??

 

Nightmare. Vladdy's numbers in Tor and then Boston are like Ortiz numbers in Minn then Boston. Probably going to happen.

 

Puckett and Gwynn more more stubby and maybe were only “fat” later on. Ortiz was lighter for sure at first.

Fielder seems to be a good comp, just a little shorter. Mo Vaughn was just a little less fat and that might be Vlad’s ideal build

[Brownie19]

Tellez has a sprained right knee - severity still unknown. He's going to the IL and his regular season is probably finished. We can't catch a break.

[Stangstag]

Tellez has a sprained right knee - severity still unknown. He's going to the IL and his regular season is probably finished. We can't catch a break.

 

Ughhhh. Best lineup is probably Shaw at 1B and Panik at 3B?? Would have been nice to take a chance on Vogelbach or Smoak now, but both are off the table. Lineup looks pretty crappy with no Bo/Teo/Tellez

[glory]

McKinney can play 1B so if the Jays had any faith in his bat then he might be a decent option for a callup. I don't think he's going to be much of anything as a hitter, but let Dante (or whoever is helping the Jays hitters at the big league level) get a few days with him and see what happens.

 

Other than that, not much else on the 40 man currently that can realistically fill in. I'm not high on Vogelbach, but could have been a decent fill in. Just bad timing.